χριστός not in the NT according to Logos.

Lee Patmore

Who would have thought that a search for lemma.g:χριστός would yeild "no results" in the NA28.

Yes, I know that the work around is to search for lemma.g:Χριστός (captial χ). But why is this necessary?How is this helpful?

DAL

It used to be the case where we just used g:logos to look up a greek word without using actual Greek characters or h:elohim to look up a Hebrew term without Hebrew characters. Maybe you don’t need greek characters when you do g: etc.?

NichtnurBibelleser

Graham Criddle

Who would have thought that a search for lemma.g:χριστός would yeild "no results" in the NA28.

I do get search results - please post a screenshot showing what you are seeing

Mark Allison

I'm assuming @Lee Patmore is searching within the Greek Text:

Lee Patmore

I see, now (Thanks Graham) what I was doing differently to produce my results. The reference matching was set to "default" instead of "broad". I'm not sure why one would want this option with the type of search I was doing. But at any rate I'll change my default way of searching to "broad".

Graham Criddle

I see, now (Thanks Graham) what I was doing differently to produce my results. The reference matching was set to "default" instead of "broad". I'm not sure why one would want this option with the type of search I was doing

I hadn't actually noted that difference in settings - and while Broad is intended to find "equivalent results" it does seem strange that it would affect things here.

I would have more expected the Match case button to affect things but that doesn't seem to

It will be interesting to see if anyone from the Logos team comments on this.

But at any rate I'll change my default way of searching to "broad".

I'd be cautious about that - it results in searches taking longer and you might get search results (from equivalences) that you don't actually want.

I don't know why mine was set to Broad - probably from some testing I was doing at some point!

Lee Patmore

What's up with this?

I would have thought that these results would be identical.

Lee Patmore

Thanks again, Graham. I can see that changing my settings to Broad does not really solve the problem.

Frank Sauer

@Graham Criddle with Search Parameters set to Default, I received no Search Results - With Search Parameters set to Broad, my results matched what you posted the image of, exactly… Very odd that 'Default' is missing results.

Frank Sauer

So, I changed the Search Parameters from NA28 to 'Greek Bibles' and the same Search provides results on each Narrow, Default and Broad options….

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/245429/%CF%87%CF%81%CE%B9%CF%83%CF%84%CF%8C%CF%82-not-in-the-nt-according-to-logos

Because Logos thought it best to create two lemmas - one essentially for the LXX with the general meaning of anointed and one essentially used as a personal name title (Messiah/Christ).

This shows you that there are two separate lemmas.

This shows you the difference in use as the lemmas have different highlighting colors in the results.

Graham Criddle

Because Logos thought it best to create two lemmas - one essentially for the LXX with the general meaning of anointed and one essentially used as a personal name title (Messiah/Christ).

This shows you that there are two separate lemmas.

Thanks @MJ. Smith

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

Bible Search for lemma.g:χριστός OR lemma.g:Χριστός finds Odes in LXX has both lemmas:

Keep Smiling 😊

MJ. Smith

Expected as Odes straddles the OT/NT boundary having texts from both.

Lee Patmore

"Because Logos thought it best to create two lemmas - one essentially for the LXX with the general meaning of anointed and one essentially used as a personal name title (Messiah/Christ)."

Thanks MJ. Smith. I'm not hearing you say that you agree with Logos in this choice.

For my part, I'm not at all sure that what Logos thought was best in this situation is helpful. The nuance of whether or not χριστός is used as a personal name in the NT is a matter that shouldn't cloud the search for the lemma. Would it not be better to leave matters of interpretation aside when doing basic searches? Logos' distinction between Χριστός and χριστός would potentially lead the novice to believe that NT writers identified this same distinction by captializing the word in their writings. Or, that χριστός does not appear in the LXX.

A fundamental approach to understanding what a word means in the NT is to notice its history, especially its use in the LXX. This is routinely accomplished via a lemma search in the NT and then broadening it out to include the LXX. It is precisely at this point that Logos drops the ball due to their penchant for interpretation.

It is issues like this that make Logos a hard sell in the academic realm.

Lee Patmore

I notice MJ. Smith that you have your "Reference Matching" set to narrow in your screenshot.

Is this what you would recommend for a setting when doing lemma searches? It's interesting to play around with this when doing original language searches via a reverse interlinear bible. Notice the difference below:

When you reproduce the above via the NA28 the outcome is consistent, 379 results.

When I read Logos' Help re Reference Matching it seems to relate to searching for ideas that naturally contain a level of ambiguity. Is this option supposed to affect lemma searches?

MJ. Smith

@Lee Patmore

 It is precisely at this point that Logos drops the ball due to their penchant for interpretation.

I am so excited to see this. For nearly two decades I have often felt like a lone wolf campaigning against anachronical tagging of the Old Testament and watched Logos repeatedly cave into the pressure from those wishing to see what they believed rather than what the text said. [Think tags of the Holy Spirit in Genesis 1 as an egregious example.]

When I read Logos' Help re Reference Matching it seems to relate to searching for ideas that naturally contain a level of ambiguity. Is this option supposed to affect lemma searches?

I'm not sure @Dave Hooton or @Mark Barnes (Logos) should be able to provide us an answer. I routinely leave all options on narrow or exact. As a Sanskritist and Catholic, the categories I think in do not map well to Logos categories so I get better results when I minimize the Logos-think in my searches.

Lee Patmore

@MJ. Smith

I am so excited to see this…

Thank you. The feeling is mutual.

I routinely leave all options on narrow or exact.

And thanks for this as well. I look forward to hearing from @Dave Hooton or @Mark Barnes (Logos) .