Logos needs to follow better when switching versions

Larry Craig · 2025-01-22T19:17:31+00:00

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This is an issue that happens in more than one scenario. In this case, I created a passage list from a Hebrew lexicon (BDB) So the verse numbers here are from the lexicon. But the verses are in English, and the English numbers don't always correspond to the Hebrew text. If you look at the text above, you will see several verses repeated with different verse numbers. I had to open each passage to see if the English verse numbers matched the Hebrew and they didn't in about 5 cases. I left both verses here together so you can see them. Psalm 51:18 is the passage in the lexicon. It corresponds to Psalm 51:16 in the English Bibles. My passage list had 51.18 for the English text. I added the correct 51.16. Same with 51.19 and 21. A few other passages I already deleted the wrong verses. Logos does a similar thing when doing Bible searches in Hebrew/Greek/English, but I should put that in a separate post, but just not right now

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Comments

Graham Criddle

Sorry @Larry Craig but I'm not following.

I think you are saying that you created a passage list from a set of references in a lexicon - and then there was an issue with these not matching the corresponding verses in an English translation.

If so, I'm not sure how this could be changed as the passage list is simply a set of verses and those verses will then display in whatever version is selected.

Or am I missing your point?

Larry Craig

There are a lot of verses in the Old Testament that have different verse numbers in Greek, Hebrew, and English. In this passage list, starting with the Hebrew verse numbers, it didn't convert the numbers when switching to English.

If the Hebrew said Ps 2:5, the English equivalent might be Ps 2:4, but Logos gave the English 2:5, so I have to manually switch the verses in the English

Graham Criddle

If the Hebrew said Ps 2:5, the English equivalent might be Ps 2:4, but Logos gave the English 2:5, so I have to manually switch the verses in the English

Yes, I understand that - sorry if I wasn't clear.

But I can't work out, even theoretically, how Logos would do something differently here. If I understand correctly you are taking a reference (without it having any linkage to a verse map) and expecting the software to do the mapping from Hebrew to English without it having any context / instruction to do so

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1354849#Comment_1354849

If you do a copy Bible verse, Logos switches the verse numbers as you switch the versions. So some parts of Logos do that. But I often have very long passages lists, and I have to check each verse to make sure the numbers are right? Actually it's mostly in the Psalms, then Jeremiah and a few other places.

MJ. Smith

Logos normally handles the verse mapping across these differences very well. What you appear to be saying is that when the Passage List is built from a lexicon the original verse map is not set correctly. I know how verse maps work with Bibles, but I don't think lexicons have a Bible index with a verse map designation. Your using NASB95 results in a verse map that applies to that Bible - which is not what the lexicon uses.

Based on https://community.logos.com/kb/articles/546-bible-datatypes?utm_source=community-search&utm_medium=organic-search&utm_term=verse+maps I think setting your default Bible to any complete Bible that uses a basic Bible index would alleviate most your problems. According to the wiki, these are

Amlipfied Bible, Arabic Bible, CEV, Cotton Patch, 1890 Darby, Elzevir (1624), Giovanni Diodati, God’s Word, ISV, The Message, MNT, NASB, NCV, NET Bible First Edition, Newberry Interlinear, NIV-Anglicised (1984), Peshitta, Protestantenbibel, Sahidic NT, Scrivener’s TR (1894), Stephen’s TR (1550), Swanson WH, TENT Greek Manuscripts, Tischendorf (plus variant), TNIV, Tyndale 1536, WuestNT, Young’s Literal

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1354859#Comment_1354859

The NASB is on the list. I don't know. I often use the copy Bible verse function, and that is able to switch easily from any Bible to any Bible. Well, at least between English, the lxx, and the Hebrew. I have another issue I will post separately, but often (and I think too often) I will do a search and end up going through all the results to make sure they are right.

MJ. Smith

Going from Bible to Bible is not a problem (except occasionally on the first chapter of Greek Esther if you really want to make a problem). ~~The problem is that the lexicon doesn't have a verse-map and the one it picks up as your Logos default is not the correct one.~~

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1354880#Comment_1354880

so you're saying there is nothing they can do, so if I do a passage list from a Hebrew lexicon, I need to check all the possible verses for errors. And then, of course, the lxx. In my post I will post soon, when I do a Bible search in Greek, Heb, and English, I have to do the same things there too.

MJ. Smith

~~Essentially yes, unless the lexicon states specifically what Bible/verse-map it is using.~~

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1354884#Comment_1354884

do they do that? how would I find out?

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1354885#Comment_1354885

Read the front materials is the only method I know.

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1354889#Comment_1354889

so what exactly am I looking for?

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

Logos normally handles the verse mapping across these differences very well.

And it does, in this case.

so if I do a passage list from a Hebrew lexicon, I need to check all the possible verses for errors

No, you don't. Logos handles the import correctly.

What it doesn't do (and what your OP was raising) is show the verse map conversions in the Passage List. I'll raise a feature request for this suggestion.

In the screenshot below, "ψ 51:18" (BDB) is correctly understood as referring to Ps 51:16 in the NRSV when it's brought across into the Passage List. However, the reference still says "Ps 51:18", which is confusing. It should say "Ps 51:16 [18 BHS]" or something like that.

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1354892#Comment_1354892

Yes, the verse is right, but the numbers are wrong. And it's not always simple to know what the numbers are. I know to check on most of the Psalms, then Jeremiah.

So, yes, I do need to check for errors. I need to know the right verse numbers, because I will be creating notes in my English Bible.

Hey, as long as you are here, I should tell you about the other problem I am having. I need to put it together. Give me a minute.

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1354892#Comment_1354892

I did a Bible search for the lemma of 'be gracious' in Psalm 56:1. The first three results are what Logos gave me clipboard and paste. The last three are what I got from the regular Logos copy Bible verse function. 1) Notice that all three Bible verses are numbered differently, but the Logos search result doesn't say that. 2) Notice the difference in the Hebrew and Greek fonts, but mostly the Hebrew. It's like chicken scrawl. So when I do a Bible search in 3 versions, I end up manually copying and pasting all the verses. Double work. Actually more, because it takes far longer to do this than doing the original search.

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1354892#Comment_1354892

What I did here was like before. I did a lemma search for 'be gracious' in Psalm 56:1. I did it in multiple versions as usual. These are the results for the Septuagint. Notice the first word in each verse. This happens like 90% of the time. Not always. You cannot manually reformate them. Won't let you.

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