How to get more Church of Christ books in Logos?

xnman

I'll re-post part of a post I posted elsewhere… and use it to ask the question at the bottom of the post….

I will say, I mean no disrespect to to anyone, but there are some facts that I don't think people are really considering, especially Logos….

1. While Logos claims to be "denominational open" to books and such, that is really not truly the case. I.E. Logos has two programs a. Logos and b. Verbum. Verbum is a program made for made for Catholics (although anyone can use it) and it mainly works with Catholic libraries and such. This program by itself shows Logos is biased towards Catholics in the books it buys and the programs it develops. There is no such program for Mormons or Baptists or any other group, other than Logos program itself. I know, there are a lot of Catholics. But still, to write one program and to keep udating it for Catholics has to show something doesn't it? I think it shows bias-ism. People have disagreed with me, but it's still the fact. Logos developed a specific program for Catholics! That's a fact.
2. Logos makes it hard for "smaller" churches, i.e. "Church of Christ" to get books into the library. Logos has gone to this "voting of books" thing which again is biased towards Catholics and Baptists, simply because there's a bunch more Catholics and Baptists that spend money on such things. I understand somewhat about "It's a money thing". But is it really fair with all the different "faiths" that use Logos for them to spend so much money in Logos on books that will be biased towards Catholics and Baptists and Mormons? My opinion is "No".
3. So someone from a smaller church, such as "Church of Christ" has very little if any chance of getting their books or "books of teachings" into the library. "Smaller churches" are completely frozen out because of the "Logos voting rule" and by the more people being Catholic and Baptists. I don't care how some argue for us to put a book or author in the "voting game"… our books just fall into the "dead letter file box" simply because we do not have the votes to get them passed.
4. And for sure, Catholics and Baptists and Mormons are not going to vote for our books as they don't like the teachings or our books as much as we don't like the teachings of their books. But we have no choice, other than not buying Logos at all and not buying their books. See we buy into Logos blind, because it is an excellent help in bible study. But along with that comes all the "groups of books" and "categories of buying" and "default libraries" that we get because of the Logos Plans that we sign into. In a way, it's all biased towards Catholics and Baptists because of that. I don't think Logos intentionally planned it that way. But it has developed and become that way.
5. But Catholics and Baptists and Mormons….. well, there's enough of them to vote and get anything. I'll raise a thought, that maybe Verbum was programmed because a bunch of Catholics voted to get it done??? I may be wrong… but it is a thought.
6. I have never liked the system. I have complained against it. I would think it would be to Logos benefit to have books from all "churches" no matter of their affiliation. I think Logos would sell more books because of that. But again, I am in the minority here. You see, I only have one single vote….. LOL 😎

Now my question:What is a valid way for Church of Christ, whom are not recognized by Logos as being a "viable category" and with all the biases as shown above, to get books and such into Logos? I think it's a valid question, not only for Church of Christ but for many smaller "church groups" that do not have the available votes to override Catholics and Baptists and Mormon and such as bigger groups?Many, I believe, like me, who would love to study from writings of men in their "faith group". Not trying to put myself above others, just trying to get a fair shot at getting books in that I would love to have in Logos. I would love to spend money on teachings I support! Honestly! And I would love for Logos to actually recognize "Church of Christ" as an honest viable category to which to categorize books and such!Thanks!

Rick Mansfield (Logos)

@xnman please email me a list of significant Church of Christ-related titles currently not represented in our catalog. Rick.Mansfield@logos.com

DMB

@xnman I certainly applaud Rick's willingness to take a look at a selection. The problem always has been, a selection of 'what'? You, yourself, in the last 24 hours, quickly diss'd a church of Christ set … wrong teaching! If I remember right, that was Bob's comment years back … which one?

Then, Verbum? Really? You'd want Logos to be converted over to a liturgical format? I always applauded Verbum, as a door to tradition-specific app design … something that Logos hasn't done (and Verbum barely). Your complaint should be why Logos remains generic and hard to learn.

Finally, throwing in Ben as a source of your angst? He's our Mormon guy … sounds disrespectful, but meant as a complement … we need more 'Ben's'.

xnman

@Rick Mansfield (Logos) Rick, I certainly wish to thank you for taking a look at my suggestions. I really appreciate it!!

@DMB I certainly did not mean to "put down" Verbum in any way. It looks like a good work and I applaud the fact that Catholics have such a program for their use. I was using it only as an example of what Logos has done. Example only. Please don't read into what I wrote as to any other meaning.

Also… I will return the Florida College books I bought simple because I do not believe in the teachings I read about in the books I received. That is a personal choice. Email me and we can discuss this further if you like.

And finally… I don't know what "Ben" you're talking about???? My whole aim in writing what I did was to bring attention to something I thought was being overlooked and to ask a question about how I can get Church of Christ books into the system. I did not have "angst" as you mention. Was not angry, was not upset, was level headed, but was pointing out something that I would hope to have a glimmer of hope in getting others to see and maybe someone would come up with another way. That's all I'll say about it.

And… The Church of Christ, of which I am a member, is not "many" as some want to call us. There are many names of "Church of Christ" out there and they believe and follow different things. I know of a lot of them. But, as you know, just because they wear the name does not mean they "walk the talk". I can't change their names, that's up to them. But, alas, I like others have to put up with their teachings being assumed to be mine which they are not.

There are a lot of different Baptists, Catholics, etc. I think it would be wrong to pick one "Catholic" and say all Catholics believe like that one. Same with Baptists…. and the same with Church of Christ. I try to be aware of that and be careful with it.

Bill Shewmaker

RE: "Church of Christ" would be better represented by Restoration Movement, which includes "Church of Christ", Christian Church (Disciples) and Christian Church (Independent). I would recommend the Standard Publishing Co., College Press and some other sources like Abilene (sp) and other of the smaller publishing houses in the restoration movement. AND we have several from Standard Publishing and some from College Press already in Logos (not enough to really say that we are being well represented. Xnman, you might be able to add a few more of the "Church of Christ" publisher that I'm not aware of.

Bill Shewmaker

I would also recommend any of the commentaries by Gareth L. Reese, long-time professor at Central Christian College of the Bible in Moberly, MO. He recently passed away and would be really great to have his works in Logos. The college made his works available in PDF format, not too long ago and that would be easier to work with than having to scan all of his NT commentaries into Logos.

MJ. Smith

@Bill Shewmaker

I agree that a Restoration Package is more appropriate.

Unfortunately, Standard Publishing Co. is not what it once was. From Wikipedia:

Standard Publishing is a nondenominational Christian publishing company associated with the Restoration Movement.[1] It was founded in Cincinnati, Ohio, in 1872.[2] Major publications have included its flagship journal, Christian Standard, and church education materials including Vacation Bible School curricula.

In 2015, Standard Publishing became an imprint of David C. Cook when the latter acquired the company's Bible lesson commentary series, Sunday school curriculum and other church resources.[3] The company's remaining assets, including Christian Standard, The Lookout, and digital resources for churches, are now produced under the name Christian Standard Media.

xnman

Bill Shewmaker✭✭✭12:13 pm

RE: "Church of Christ" would be better represented by Restoration Movement, which includes "Church of Christ", Christian Church (Disciples) and Christian Church (Independent). I would recommend the Standard Publishing Co., College Press and some other sources like Abilene (sp) and other of the smaller publishing houses in the restoration movement. AND we have several from Standard Publishing and some from College Press already in Logos (not enough to really say that we are being well represented. Xnman, you might be able to add a few more of the "Church of Christ" publisher that I'm not aware of.

__________________________

Appreciate the thought. But, I don't agree that "Church of Christ" would be better represented by the Restoration Movement. The Church of Christ was before the movement. What the Restoration Movement tried to do was get "denominations" back to the bible. It didn't some from Campbell or Keeble or Racoon Smith or any of those guys that tried to get things back to the bible. I know, I know, many argue the case, but facts are facts… 😎

And on the other thought, I sent Rick a host of suggestions…. and will send more as I have time. I appreciate all the suggestions and especially, the possibilities! Thanks

Bill Shewmaker

Thank you MJ…I keep forgetting that Standard Publishing had been acquired by another group. There are other publishers in the Restoration Movement, but usually smaller in their options. Logos already has several resources by Dr. Jack Cottrell, which include some of the Mobile Education materials.

MJ. Smith

@xnman

 I know, I know, many argue the case, but facts are facts… 😎

One (embarrassing) thing I learned as a Buddhist studies student, was that while one went to Buddhists and their texts for beliefs and practices, for history one went to non-Buddhist scholars. I had learned a similar lesson when studying under a Parsi. Facts are not the teaching of what a denomination believes to be true; facts are statement that are falsifiable i.e. if false, can be shown to be false. Lack of data is never proof of truth.

xnman

Thanks for the thoughts. I'll bow out because of forum rules… but I think this could be a great discussion! Thanks!😎

DAL

I appreciate your thoughts xnman, but the best way to get more church of Christ books is (as unfortunate as it may be) by tying them to the restoration movement. Most authors and publishers identify with the movement because of the vision it had not because the church of Christ started with the movement. Yes, we all agree that the church of Christ was established before the movement, some time in the decade of 30 AD on the Day of Pentecost. Catholics agree and evangelicals agree that Acts 2 marks the birth of the church…But…when it comes to books written with your perspective and my perspective in mind, they would have to be tied to the restoration movement because that’s when most of the books started being published promoting the “New Testament Church” as we refer to it.

We all love books by McGarvey, Guy N. Woods, Wendell Winkler, Dave Miller, Gareth Reese, Jack Cottrell, Wayne Jackson, J.J. Turner, Kyle Butt, GBN commentaries, N.B. Hardeman, etc. And they all have one thing in common…They all support the restoration movement. Even Schools of Preaching (South West, Memphis SOP, Brown Trail SOP, etc.) they all preach the NT Church, but support the restoration movement. They even take trips to “Restoration Sights” where some of the pioneer preachers lived and preached! Again, not because they believe the church of Christ started with the movement but because of the noble vision the movement had. Once you understand that you will stop asking for the impossible (i.e. church of Christ only books).

DAL

Ps. I’m not arguing, but it seems to me that this needed to be clarified to be able to pursue this request in a better more objective way.

xnman

@DAL Thanks. You make some good points! I appreciate it! I like others have visited some of the restoration sites not because the church started then but as you say, it is "religious history" and I would agree a lot of good writing was done by the men of that era. Thanks for pointing that out! 😎