Book of Revelation- Historic Premil
Comments
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Well Abi, I want you to be smart, but I don't want you to "get smart" ok...[;)] Jesus is reigning in His Kingdom - The Church and even though Satan is the god of this world, yet you must remember that he's subject to Christ. He cannot roam around free and do whatever he wants. So just remember, that ALL authority was given to Jesus in Heaven & on where?....oh, that's right, on earth --- why, because He's Lord of everything. Now you would have to define what "world" means in the context of 2 Cor. 4:4 and then you will come to the conclusion that the world is not the planet per se, but the sinful environment in it. Even if it meant the planet, you must still remember that We christians are in this world, but we are not of the world (John 17:16). Christ is reigning over us and we are His royal priest...wow...isn't that amazing! Priests of the Lord of lords and King of kings!
Anyway, I hope you don't think I'm being argumentative, we're just having an open forum conversation...[:P]
Blessings!
Giovanni
Ps. And if I misundestood Rosie, my apologies to her. Though I must emphasize that I was in no way being argumentative. I don't like to argue with anybody unless it's really necessary. That's all folks!
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It's in the hymnals of most of us ...
Isaac Watts - Paraphrase of ps 72 ! *smile*
Writtin at beginning of 1700's
Sung now by Christians - Joyfully! - for 300 years!
Peace to all!
http://peterjrday.blogspot.com/2007/03/jesus-shall-reign.html
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Oh dear, I should have known better than to say anything intentionally ambiguous and thus hopefully non-controversial in a thread about eschatology. My point was that I don't have a position I want to try to convince people about on this subject, so I was just trying to say something everyone could agree with. And I failed even there. Sigh. [:(]
Giovanni Baggio said:Rosie, with all due respect, but what you wrote ["Jesus shall reign!"] makes it seem as if Jesus will reign in the future.
Oh, so does that mean you think Jesus won't also continue to reign in the future? [;)]
That's all I meant by it. I wasn't trying to make some point about Jesus only beginning to reign in the future. I was referring to a wonderful hymn title, with a link to its music. I use words that way often -- literary allusions and such.
Up until you posted, I was so impressed at how this thread with all its varying viewpoints was staying away from people trying to pick apart what other people had said. Why do we always have to devolve into that, especially when it comes to end times stuff that we must admit we know so very little about?
No offense taken. I know you were saying something true. And I agree with you. But I didn't think you needed to mount a critique of something that wasn't putting itself forward as a statement to be agreed with or not. I had just said that people are in general getting along more and more lately on these subjects and you saddened my heart by finding something to disagree with in a post that was supposed to be peacemaking in nature. Matt 5:9.
Carry on. I'm outta here. It's best if we all stay on the subject of the software, by the way, not theological positions. And to quote our friend Milford Charles Murray, who always leaves me happy after my communications with him: * SMILE! * [:)]
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Jeremy said:
The difference between Historic Premillennialism and Amillennialism is quite small. Most in the Historic Premillennialist camp don't think there has to be a literal 1,000 year millennium. 5 seconds could separate Historic Premillennialism from Amillennialism.
Jeremy, as one who is of the historic pre-mil persuasion, I must say that by far most in the Historic Premil camp would believe in a literal millennium. George Ladd certainly does. Ladd, perhaps the most prominent Historic Premil theologian, believes in a literal "Great Tribulation" and a literal Antichrist as well. It is hard to see how one is pre-mil at all if he (or she) doesn't believe in a literal millennium. That is one of the distinctions between the historic pre-mil and amil positions.
However, it is true that if I were not Historic Pre-mil, I would likely be Amil. Once I was dispensational pre-mil, but that is one view I could not see myself returning to again. So if you mean that Historic Pre-mil is closer to Amil than Dispensational Pre-mil, I would not argue. But I would not accept that I am any less pre-mil than any dispensationalist.
Hmmm... Do we sound like who among us is the true "Pharisee of the Pharisees"?
Honestly, I think all of the eschatological interpretations are probably wrong about something. We all see through a glass darkly on this. John Wesley said that we "may be almost as orthodox — as the devil, (though, indeed, not altogether; for every man errs in something; whereas we cannot well conceive him to hold any erroneous opinion,) and may, all the while, be as great a stranger as he to the religion of the heart." On matters like this a little humility is well advised.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Okay - read the guidelines. This is not a forum to debate personal theology ... to ask about the theological stance of a particular author or publisher, no problem. But let's at least make a effort to help relative newcomers (based on post count) understand the purpose and guidelines of the forums.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I am living in the third millenium of Jesus Christ's reign . . . [A]
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Dan DeVilder said:
I am living in the third millenium of Jesus Christ's reign . . .
Do you dare ignore the Prime Directive, handed down by M.J.?[:O] Only 3 millennia? John 8:58 John 1:1-2 Col 1:15-17
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Jeremy said:
I studied at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and Carson was my academic advisor.
You mentioned in another post that Carson's commentary on Revelation will be available "soon". Can you give us a hint as to what year it might be expected? I've listened to Carson's teaching on Revelation on the Internet, some of which goes back into the 90's. Fascinating and sensible discussion on the symbolism. I've been waiting a long time to see his work in print and will do another study on Revelation when it is available. Maybe by then Somsel will have his commentary done and I can include it in the study too!
Also, I'm curious, who functions as editor when Carson writes in Pillar series?
BTW, I have been taking TEDS extension classes in Wisconsin.
Thanks in advance for any intel.
Scott
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Abi Gail said:Dan DeVilder said:
I am living in the third millenium of Jesus Christ's reign . . .
Do you dare ignore the Prime Directive, handed down by M.J.?
Only 3 millennia? John 8:58 John 1:1-2 Col 1:15-17ahhhh, but he was not yet named "Jesus" . . . [;)]
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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I have had great enjoyment reading this whole thread.
I would like to point out Whyndell (the original poster) asked about Logos resources and subsequently thanked posters for their input. There have been 31 posts since Whyndell's last post. Do you think maybe he has all we can give him in regards to Logos resources? [C]Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Dan DeVilder said:Abi Gail said:Dan DeVilder said:
I am living in the third millenium of Jesus Christ's reign . . .
Do you dare ignore the Prime Directive, handed down by M.J.?
Only 3 millennia? John 8:58 John 1:1-2 Col 1:15-17ahhhh, but he was not yet named "Jesus" . . .
Matthew C Jones said:I have had great enjoyment reading this whole thread.
I would like to point out Whyndell (the original poster) asked about Logos resources and subsequently thanked posters for their input. There have been 31 posts since Whyndell's last post. Do you think maybe he has all we can give him in regards to Logos resources?
Dan;
I would love to discuss this with you, but I fear your Star is in jeopardy.[:D]
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Abi Gail said:
Dan;
I would love to discuss this with you, but I fear your Star is in jeopardy.
The little stars under the MVPs are given by Logos. Although we do not always speak clearly or follow the forum guidelines perfectly, we at least try. As of yet, no MVP has had a star pulled or even been warned by Logos (to my knowledge.)
When I read Genesis 37:21-29 I see Reuben taking a weak stand for what is right. Since I don't own the forums and did not write the guidelines, it is not my responsibility to enforce them. But sometimes a gentle reminder of what is "the right thing to do" is all that is needed for others to "do the right thing." This concept is covered very well in a Logos resource. It is called "self-government with union" in the second volume of this collection:
The Christian History Library http://www.logos.com/products/details/3525
I just thought since Whyndell's initial request seems to have been answered............Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Dan DeVilder said:
Hey, what happened to your post count?
I changed e-mail addy a while back..counts have been unpredictable ever since.
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Matthew C Jones said:
This concept is covered very well in a Logos resource. It is called "self-government with union" in the second volume of this collection:
The Christian History Library http://www.logos.com/products/details/3525Thanks for pointing me to that reference. I found one that is also found in my Logos resources. Acts 4:31
How many guidelines do you think the apostles/disciples bent in order to profess their beliefs? Didn't some die for that privilege?[:)]
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Matthew C Jones said:
I have had great enjoyment reading this whole thread.
I would like to point out Whyndell (the original poster) asked about Logos resources and subsequently thanked posters for their input. There have been 31 posts since Whyndell's last post. Do you think maybe he has all we can give him in regards to Logos resources?Actually I have been on the sidelines reading as well- but I do thank all of you- even after my post for aother avenues to explore. To bad we cannot get a Ladd's collection going in Logos.
By the way i haven't seen anything to be concerned about- but the forum does have its rules.
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Whyndell Grizzard said:
To bad we cannot get a Ladd's collection going in Logos.
Then please add your vote to my suggestion on this thread [;)] http://community.logos.com/forums/p/9055/71868.aspx#71868
Ted
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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Whyndell Grizzard said:
Actually I have been on the sidelines reading as well- but I do thank all of you- even after my post for aother avenues to explore. To bad we cannot get a Ladd's collection going in Logos.
By the way i haven't seen anything to be concerned about- but the forum does have its rules.
I was pretty sure you would still be following the thread. And I have found every post interesting, Certainly nothing more controversial than two recent Logos resources:
Let Go and Let God? A Survey and Analysis of Keswick Theology [:O]
A Complete Guide to Understanding the Dispensationalism Controversy [:|]And I love discovering other avenues to explore, when Logos doesn't offer enough coverage.
Maybe a Ladd Collection will be on the Pre-Pub list soon.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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John F. Walvoord is premil and has a good commentary on Revelation: http://www.logos.com/ebooks/details/GS_WALV_REVJC.
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That's premil not prelim. Posted before reviewing [:P]
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Scott Burke said:
John F. Walvoord is prelim and has a good commentary on Revelation
Cool! [H] Your link to the Revelation commentary led me to this link:
http://www.logos.com/products/details/4722 for the John F. Walvoord Commentary and Theology Collection (9 vols.)
Thanks for bringing that up!
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew,
Thank you for sharing that Walvoord collection. Now I need to send the link to my wife as a hint for when she cannot figure out what to get me [;)]
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Scott Burke said:
Posted before reviewing
Scott,
You can edit posts for about 10 hours after you first put them up. On the top right of your post there is a "more" button. The drop down menu offers an "edit" option. This comes in handy for not just typos but hasty posts or those that just come across wrong. You can add, delete, strike-though, or replace parts or the whole post.
One word of caution: some people subscribe to threads of interest and whenever a new post is added, that new post is emailed to them. Any editing you do will not correct or delete the copy in their email box. It is much better to proofread and "think twice." I know many people wish I would use a spell-checker more often. [:$]
Another caveat: If somebody quotes your post, your edit will not be reflected in their quote. They do have the opportunity to edit your quote out of their post. You cannot edit anyone else's post. Boy, wouldn't that be a fun option?
Try out the edit feature now to see how it works!
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew,
Thank you for informing me of those nice little editing tools. I will keep those in mind. Now if they could have a tool that would post for me that would be great!
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Abi Gail said:Dan DeVilder said:
I am living in the third millenium of Jesus Christ's reign . . .
Do you dare ignore the Prime Directive, handed down by M.J.?
Only 3 millennia? John 8:58 John 1:1-2 Col 1:15-17Good, everything is debatable. Great job. I hope you did use Logos to find those scriptures! [:P]
EDIT: Sorry, I did not notice there is the third page of posts on this thread. I am kind of behind [A]
Bohuslav
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Dan DeVilder said:Abi Gail said:Dan DeVilder said:
I am living in the third millenium of Jesus Christ's reign . . .
Do you dare ignore the Prime Directive, handed down by M.J.?
Only 3 millennia? John 8:58 John 1:1-2 Col 1:15-17ahhhh, but he was not yet named "Jesus" . . .
That which we call a Rose, By any other name, Would smell as Sweet. [W]
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Jeremy, thanks for the reply. Yeah, I checked bestcommentaries.com and Eerdman sites before asking you, so I realize that Dr Carson has not notified the publisher and committed to a date. When you mentioned that his commentary on Revelation would be available "soon", I was hoping that you were still in contact with Dr. Carson and he might have mentioned something about his progress.
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Abi Gail said:Dan DeVilder said:Abi Gail said:Dan DeVilder said:
I am living in the third millenium of Jesus Christ's reign . . .
Do you dare ignore the Prime Directive, handed down by M.J.?
Only 3 millennia? John 8:58 John 1:1-2 Col 1:15-17ahhhh, but he was not yet named "Jesus" . . .
Matthew C Jones said:I have had great enjoyment reading this whole thread.
I would like to point out Whyndell (the original poster) asked about Logos resources and subsequently thanked posters for their input. There have been 31 posts since Whyndell's last post. Do you think maybe he has all we can give him in regards to Logos resources?Dan;
I would love to discuss this with you, but I fear your Star is in jeopardy.
Abi Gail said:Matthew C Jones said:This concept is covered very well in a Logos resource. It is called "self-government with union" in the second volume of this collection:
The Christian History Library http://www.logos.com/products/details/3525Thanks for pointing me to that reference. I found one that is also found in my Logos resources. Acts 4:31
How many guidelines do you think the apostles/disciples bent in order to profess their beliefs? Didn't some die for that privilege?
[^o)]HHHMMMmmm~~~[^o)]
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K.J. said:
That which we call a Rose, By any other name, Would smell as Sweet.
The Complete Works of William Shakespeare
So, what's in a name? [I] Try these Logos resources:
His Names Are Wonderful: Getting to Know God through His Hebrew Names
Intimate Moments with the Hebrew Names of God
Every Name of God in the Bible
The Names of the Trinity Collection (3 vols.)Jesus, name above all names Acts 4:12
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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