Book of Revelation- Historic Premil

That which we call a Rose, By any other name, Would smell as Sweet.

The Complete Works of William Shakespeare

 The Bible is special. It is unique. No other book has any such credentials. No other book even comes close. “England has two books, the Bible and Shakespeare. England made Shakespeare, but the Bible made England” (Victor Hugo, cited by Mead, Encyclopedia of Religious Quotations, p. 49).

McDowell, J., & Stewart, D. D. (1993). Answers to tough questions. Nashville: T. Nelson Publishers.

REFORMATION DAY

Demoralized Leaders

October 30

October 31, 1517 is the best-known date in Protestant history—the day Martin Luther nailed his convictions to the Wittenberg door. But an incident that happened 16 years before helps us understand Luther’s boldness. Rodrigo Borgia was named a cardinal in 1456, and “no sooner had he donned his red hat than he removed it, together with the rest of his raiment, for a marathon romp with a succession of women whose identity is unknown to us and may well have been unknown to him.”

His immorality only increased when, in 1492, he became Pope Alexander VI.

On October 30, 1501 Pope Alexander presided over the infamous “Ballet of the Chestnuts.” Guests approaching the papal palace saw living statutes of naked, gilded young people in erotic poses. Inside, after the dishes were cleared from the banquet hall, the city’s most beautiful prostitutes danced with the guests, shedding their clothes a bit at a time. Eventually the pope and his sons became judges of a contest in which guests stripped and performed with one another. Alexander awarded prizes to the men.

The corruption of the papacy continued under Alexander’s successor, Julius II, and when Luther visited Rome in 1510, he was shocked to find the papal court served by “twelve naked girls.” Down to his old age, Luther remembered seeing and hearing of sexual abominations taking place in the name of Christ by those who were thought to be spiritual leaders. He later wrote, “I would not have missed seeing Rome for a hundred thousand florins. If I did I should ever had been uneasy lest I might have done injustice to the pope.”

It was the demoralized nature of the papacy as much as its doctrinal failure that convinced Luther to risk prosecution and excommunication with fortitude. Holy living—personal purity—Luther knew, is married to pure doctrine, and the union is inseparable … for “the just shall live by faith.”

You are God’s people, so don’t let it be said that any of you are immoral or indecent or greedy. Don’t use dirty or foolish or filthy words. Instead, say how thankful you are. Being greedy, indecent, or immoral is just another way of worshiping idols. Ephesians 5:3-5a

Morgan, R. J. (2000). On this day : 265 amazing and inspiring stories about saints, martyrs & heroes (electronic ed.). Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

And You and Hugo and Mead and McDowell will be hard pressed to find that quote in any Bible, regardless of which cannon you choose.

 

                                                    Point taken, However, I did find some pretty mushy poetry.[:D]

Song 2:1-2

"I am the rose of Sharon, [W]

The lily of the valleys." 

2 "Like a lily among the thorns, [W]

So is my darling among the maidens." 

NASU

Dear Brother Jones:

I do not disagree with anything you say. We are polishing different facets of the same precious stone. I did not set out to bash Catholics. Mel mentioned Reformation Day. I posted a daily reading (devotional if you will) that expanded on that fact. I do not presume to state that any denomination is purer than another. Far from it. It is my belief that every protestant denomination finds one issue to protest, and one pet truth that they believe sets them apart from all other denominations. They can then steal sheep from other flocks by convincing them that their truth is better than the other truths.

               Bottom line...Christ's TRUE Church doesn't have stained glass windows, or Dogma, or Politics.

Gal 1:8-9

But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed! 

NASU

I first comprehended this while reading Chuck Colson's book "The Body"

                                          I will add it to my list....But OHHHHHH the list is so long.

Mel mentioned Reformation Day. I posted a daily reading (devotional if you will) that expanded on that fact.

Reformation day is a significant day in liturgical calendars and is clearly relevant to Logos. I have trouble, however, thinking that those who celebrate Reformation day are not focused on the Reformation and it's leaders ... it would be a waste of their time and energy to celebrate the Borgias ... In fact, I have trouble believing anyone would celebrate them. So your "devotional" fits how?

I understood it to be celebrating Martin Luther.  " October 31, 1517 is the best-known date in Protestant history—the day Martin Luther nailed his convictions to the Wittenberg door."         Some regard Luther as the father of the Reformation. No One can deny that he was instrumental in it's onset. How do you speak of the Reformation, and not mention Martin Luther? The Book made a valid point (in my mind) That it was the Papal corruption that gave Luther the conviction to make a stand.[:)]

  I will paste today's entry, for comparison, and possible clarification:

" High Noon

October 31

In 1517 Pope Leo X, empty-pocketed and needing funds to rebuild St. Peter’s basilica, issued a special “sale” of indulgences. The very word “indulgence” tends to convey dubious moral connotations, but these indulgences were particularly questionable. What was an “indulgence”? It was a special sort of forgiveness for sins issued by the pope in consideration of various acts of merit, in this case donations to Leo’s treasury. Indulgences could even be “purchased” on behalf of loved ones in purgatory.

Dominican friar Johann Tetzel became the pontiff’s peddler, a P. T. Barnum traveling around with a brass-bound chest, a bag of printed receipts, and an enormous cross draped with a papal banner. Whenever Tetzel came to a town, church bells peeled, crowds gathered, and street performers kicked up their heels. Tetzel would set up shop in the nave of the local church, open his bags, and shout, “I have here the passports to lead the human soul to the celestial joys of Paradise. As soon as the coin rings in the bowl, the soul for whom it is paid will fly from purgatory and straight to heaven.”

He usually exceeded his quota.

But many were troubled, and when the hard eyes of Martin Luther fell on the indulgences purchased by fellow villagers in Wittenberg, he studied them carefully and pronounced them frauds. At high noon on October 31, 1517, Luther, a 33-year-old university professor, walked to the door of Castle Church in Wittenberg, Germany, and tacked to it a document. The door served as the town bulletin board, and Martin Luther had an announcement to post. He called for a “disputation on the power and efficacy of indulgences.”

A few curious passersby drew near and scanned the words: “Out of love for the faith and the desire to bring it to light, the following propositions will be discussed at Wittenberg under the chairmanship of the Reverend Father Martin Luther, Master of Arts and Sacred Theology. … ” There followed a list of 95 items.

Luther did not yet know what mighty blows he had struck."

Morgan, R. J. (2000). On this day : 265 amazing and inspiring stories about saints, martyrs & heroes (electronic ed.). Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

Going to a thread that is off topic is like going to a leafy fig tree with no figs.  

Good Morning Mel;

Did you find time to re-visit Luther's "Preface to Romans"...as you had hoped?[:)]

Our original conversation was about the Preface to Romans...Not Galatians. He did write one for Galatians. (as well as James,Jude, and Revelation)...all pale in comparison to his Romans Preface. I can just imagine that he was at that "First Love" state while studying Romans. It is My understanding that It was his study of Romans that prompted him to see all of Scripture in a new light.

God Bless

A Complete Guide to Understanding the Dispensationalism Controversy

Here is a book that comes from a dispensational perspective and yet is post tribulational, an interesting mix.  The Church and the Tribulation  A Biblical Examination of Posttribulationism   by Robert H. Gundry  

A here is a popular video going around.  It's on topic, (but unrelated to L4.) (Hey, everybody else is violating. why not me

GodTube - Today's Christian Videos - After Great Tribulation

                                                                                                [Y]

Would that all protestants were as dedicated to holiness. In my life I have seen immorality wearing every type of cleric's garb; be it Catholic, Pentecostal, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Mormon, Muslim, Buddhist, Sikh...........    (fill in your own favorites, they've all fallen short.)

Yes, you are right Matthew, but still there is a great difference in what was going on in those days and today. The leadership of the named denominations (I am not speaking about the non-Christian religions you named) is seeing it as a problem and dealing more or less with the immorality when it occurs. In the time leading to the Reformation the top leadership was a problem. And it was connected to the doctrinal issues IMHO (as somebody noticed already).

I am glad we live in a different days, however not being without our own challenges and problems.

I sure didn't know all that.   I'm gonna enjoy this site.

I am not sure how any of this relates to Revelation & historical premillennialism, yet.

 2 Thess 2:3-5

 For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,  4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 

ESV