Lack of Legacy Fallback License for new users is a Deal Breaker

I recently learned about Logos and I've been looking into it. I strongly dislike subscription models as they are predatory, but I'm willing to do them if there is some kind of perpetual rights in the end. Reading the FAQ it seemed like the Legacy Fallback License was for anyone who subscribed for two years. I was about to subscribe for 2 years of Max this evening and I happened to re-read the FAQ beforehand and noticed the Logos 10 requirement to be eligible for the Legacy Fallback license. That seems to be verified by a couple posts mentioning that requirement.

So, as a new user, I can subscribe for two years ($380), separately purchase hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of dollars worth of books, and then the software to read/search them just stops working if I unsubscribe? I don't have the words for how unattractive a proposition that is. It's a complete deal breaker. The software looks interesting from what I've seen, but the licensing model is enough to put me off even signing up for a free trial

I hope that at some point Logos reconsiders their stance on Legacy Fallback licenses for new customers. I just wanted to post this feedback as otherwise I'd just be another person who looks at this, goes"no way", and there would be no feedback about why I didn't become a customer.

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DMB

… and then the software to read/search them just stops working if I unsubscribe"

Not quite. The basic app works without the subscription. Read … search … notes. Pretty decent.

Judging from so many that don't know or use most 'features', the subscription is largely AI and some (temporary) free books.

John

@Bret K and then the software to read/search them just stops working if I unsubscribe?

No, it does not stop working. In the case of a non L10 owner it would jump back into FREE edition mode, which would still allow a limited ability to use your (owned) resources.

The recent trend has been to place advertising and nag screens, and constant reminders that you need to subscribe. I call it cripple-ware and nag-ware.

Logos might not be a bad thing for you. You have an advantage over us “legacy” users in that you are informed and know what the deal is up front. We did not, and we were never given a choice.

Logos is all about AI and monthly cashflow now. Seems like they don’t care about anything else. They have bet the farm on AI attracting lots of new users. My prediction is that when those numbers fail to generate the large profit being hoped for, the price of subscriptions will then be raised. ( that is speculation on my part, I could be wrong ). But they are raising the subscription cost for “legacy” customers at the end of November, as a harbinger of things to come?

If you hate subscriptions, there are still other options available in the software market. But the reality of that market is that Logos has a larger selection of (Christian) resources than anyone else.

It is unfortunate that they are undercutting their potential sales of resources by not allowing new customers to have any security of ownership in the software required to utilize those resources.

note: The legacy fallback license is pretty meaningless at this point. All of the new development is on AI. And that will always require a subscription.

Bret K

Not quite. The basic app works without the subscription. Read … search … notes. Pretty decent.

Thanks for letting me know. Is there a list of what's included in the basic app for free without a Legacy Fallback license or owning some previous version of Logos?

I've only seen what's on the subscription page, but it seems like almost all of the features that would make bible study software useful (beyond being a basic eBook reader) is tied to a subscription or some previous license that's no longer available.

Yasmin Stephen

So, as a new user, I can subscribe for two years ($380), separately purchase hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of dollars worth of books, and then the software to read/search them just stops working if I unsubscribe?

This was addressed in the same location as the Legacy Fallback License FAQs:

John

@Bret K Is there a list of what's included in the basic app for free without a Legacy Fallback license or owning some previous version of Logos?

Probably. But they do make it overly complex. One thing you could do is purchase a starter library, install it and try it out. Resist paying the subscription and see for yourself how you like it. You can take advantage of the 30 day return policy if you decide you do not like it.

I would NOT subscribe in advance. Subscription payments are not refundable.

Bret K

@John

The recent trend has been to place advertising and nag screens, and constant reminders that you need to subscribe. I call it cripple-ware and nag-ware.

That's unfortunate :(

Logos might not be a bad thing for you. You have an advantage over us “legacy” users in that you are informed and know what the deal is up front. We did not, and we were never given a choice.

I sympathize with that. I've had that happen with other software I've purchased where they changed the deal after many people had paid for it.

Logos is all about AI and monthly cashflow now. Seems like they don’t care about anything else. They have bet the farm on AI attracting lots of new users. My prediction is that when those numbers fail to generate the large profit being hoped for, the price of subscriptions will then be raised. ( that is speculation on my part, I could be wrong ). But they are raising the subscription cost for “legacy” customers at the end of November, as a harbinger of things to come?

AI can be useful if it's applied well, but it seems like there's a lot of non-AI features that are no longer available.

If you hate subscriptions, there are still other options available in the software market. But the reality of that market is that Logos has a larger selection of (Christian) resources than anyone else.

I'll have to look into those and see what's out there. Logos seems like it's the biggest/most used. I just can't bring myself to support that business model. I won't subscribe to Adobe's products or Microsoft 365 either. If the software is running offline on my computer (or could), I just can't support it. If it's something I own a licenses for, I'll buy upgrades as I need new features. I'll subscribe to things where there's residual/perpetual rights where you stop getting updates when you unsubscribe. But being forced to continually buy features I may not want or need isn't a business model I can support.

It is unfortunate that they are undercutting their potential sales of resources by not allowing new customers to have any security of ownership in the software required to utilize those resources.

Yes :( I'd be willing to buy if I could keep the offline features after paying for 2 years of subscription for them.

DMB

Adding to John, (and agree), you really have to ask yourself what you'd USE of the subscription features. They sound great, but most apparently don't use them that much. And if you did subscribe, would you miss that much if you stopped?

Just my opinion, but you'd likely miss the AI features (essentially easy-search). I have a large library, use the app daily (actually Logos, Accordance etc). and have all the features (no subscription). But I rarely use the features … the free engine is really quite good, surprisingly.

Bret K

@Yasmin Stephen Thanks for linking that.

You aren’t required to subscribe to keep access to content or features you already own. The subscription is for anyone who wants access to the latest version of Logos which will get new features or improvements roughly every six weeks.
If you’ve already purchased Logos packages or feature sets, those are yours to keep—you won’t lose them. You’ll continue to be able to use the features you’ve paid for, regardless of whether you subscribe to the latest version.

The language seems like it's aimed at someone who owns Logos packages or feature sets already. I own no Logos packages or feature sets, and there's no way to purchase them, so I would assume that means I keep none when unsubscribing, beyond what others have mentioned as included with the free/basic software.

So I could buy content, but it seems like the software would be limited for new users who don't already own any features.

John

@Bret K the software would be limited for new users who don't already own any features.

Correct. And that is by design. They want you to subscribe for the software.

What do you want to get out of your software? Are you a student? Just general Bible study? Original languages?

Bret K

@John

Probably. But they do make it overly complex. One thing you could do is purchase a starter library, install it and try it out. Resist paying the subscription and see for yourself how you like it. You can take advantage of the 30 day return policy if you decide you do not like it.
I would NOT subscribe in advance. Subscription payments are not refundable.

@DMB

Adding to John, (and agree), you really have to ask yourself what you'd USE of the subscription features. They sound great, but most apparently don't use them that much. And if you did subscribe, would you miss that much if you stopped?
Just my opinion, but you'd likely miss the AI features (essentially easy-search). I have a large library, use the app daily (actually Logos, Accordance etc). and have all the features (no subscription). But I rarely use the features … the free engine is really quite good, surprisingly.

Thanks for letting me know about that as an option. I'll look into the free software with one of the starter libraries as an option. The 30-day return makes it low risk.

There were some features that I wanted though (bible analysis, maps, timelines, original languages). I'm not sure if it's worthwhile if it's basically an eBook reader without the subscription.

John

@Bret K

This one is pretty cheap

https://www.logos.com/product/369217/2025-starter-library

It seems to lack a choice of Bibles, but I’m thinking that you get the ESV free if you install the software? I haven’t really explored the free options.

John

this page shows what comes with the free version. It does include the ESV, CSB and KJV

https://www.logos.com/free-edition

DMB

Yes … go thru that list John showed above. The Logos base is anything but a reader. It's got both OT and NT reverse interlinears, search, notes, text comparison, multiview, passage lists, and more. All of these are great everyday study tools. BTW the Lexham Bible Dictionary is quite good … close to academic quality.

Maps. The ones in the basic are good. Once you subscribe to 'Atlas', good luck. And worse, the timeline tool. I never use them. Read the complaints on the forum for both.

OL. Just looking at the list, I don't see lexicons. You'd have to pick up a couple cheapos ('concise' are fine).

What's nice, is after you kind of make up your mind, subscription is still there for your enjoyment. Canceling later, doesn't take away the free-edition. And the sales on Logos are quite good too; be patient.

DMM

I would definitely get one of the starters and try it out. The Legacy 5 and 6 Starters are half off - so they'd be $20 (I just noticed the price went up… they used to be $35 and so would have been $17.50… now they are $40).

https://www.logos.com/product/218994/logos-5-starter-legacy-library (there are many others, too)

$20 to start. That would get you a bunch of books to whet your whistle. I would always say that the average person in the pew could go spend $100 on some of the starter libraries and have enough books to keep them busy for a looooooong time. All the ads is what stops me from continuing to do so.

There's also a lot of free books. The Themelios Journals are all free if you use the name of the journal as the coupon code (must add each individually, but you can do all of them in one purchase). Lots of other free ones, too, no coupon code needed.

And the other books on the "Free Book of the Month" page are always worth a look (ok this month is an odd one as they are all part of the same series, but most of the time you've got a wide variety and sometimes they are as low as 99¢).

Bret K

@John @DMB

Apparently when I signed up for the forum, the Free Edition was automatically added to my account. I haven't had any luck with the Windows installer - it complains it can't download a required file (maybe a server is down?), but the web version works fine in my browser.

There's a surprising amount of content included in the Free Edition. More than is listed on that page. A good number of Bibles, many of them old, but a few newer translations. A couple commentaries and lexicons. Definitely enough to look through it and get a feel for the software. For free, that's quite nice.

I'll look through the 2025 and Legacy Starter packs and see if they add some things that would be useful.

The forced subscription model is a bummer, but Logos may be useful without it. I'm going to poke around in it a bit with the free content and check out the content packs. There's so many features that are tied to sub, I feel like there must be some "gotcha" with the free version, but we'll see.

One question: What do the Legacy Packs mean when they say they don't include the "features or datasets." The features I get, but what does the lack of datasets limit?

Thank you for all your help, I appreciate it!

Bret K

There's also a lot of free books. The Themelios Journals are all free if you use the name of the journal as the coupon code (must add each individually, but you can do all of them in one purchase). Lots of other free ones, too, no coupon code needed.

And the other books on the "Free Book of the Month" page are always worth a look (ok this month is an odd one as they are all part of the same series, but most of the time you've got a wide variety and sometimes they are as low as 99¢).Tha

@DMM Thank you very much for the pointer to the Legacy Packs and the free books! The Legacy Packs seems reasonably priced. Do you what the mention of not having the "datasets" means for those? What would it limit?

I'll definitely check out the free books too.