I want to locate all the word groups with a certain verb, followed by a "dative of interest" word group
Is this kind of info available?
Scott
It seems to be missing as far as I can see.
This type of "semantic force" information just seems to be available in the Lexham Syntactic series and it misses the particular type you are interested in as below:
Whether this means that no such constructs occur is another question?
Graham
Graham,
Thank you so much. I am new to syntax search. I have had this resource long long time ago, but only recently I have the a little desire to learn it. So, thank you!
BTW, I am trying to make use of this search to help me prove that the correction translation of "τῇ πίστει τοῦ εὐαγγελίου" , should be a dative of instrument 'with the faith of the gospel', but not dative of interest 'for the faith of the gospel'
oh...there is a 'dative of means', it should be equivalent!
Looking at the "SGNT Sentence Analysis" for Philippians 1:27 (which I think is the verse you are focusing on) we see:
which shows that πίστει is tagged as "dative of advantage" - so a "dative of interest"
A search for all constructs of this type can be found using a syntax search as below:
According to the Lexham SGNT Notes for πίστει in 1:27
πίστει (LN: 31.85; noun, dative, singular, feminine)
faith
Contained in: Participial Clause
Syntactic Force: Dative of advantage
Words That Modify πίστει
• articular relation: The word πίστει is modified by τῇ (article) in Php 1:27, word 28 (τῇ is within the current clausal unit, before πίστει).
• adjective-like relation: The word πίστει is modified by εὐαγγελίου (noun) in Php 1:27, word 31 (εὐαγγελίου is within the current clausal unit, after πίστει).
Albert L. Lukaszewski, Mark Dubis and J. Ted Blakley, The Lexham Syntactic Greek New Testament: Expansions and Annotations, Php 1:27 (Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2010; 2010).
So the Lexham Greek New Testament tagging doesn't seem to support your thesis.
Hope this helps!
This tagging is supported by O'Brien:
The immediately following words τῇ πίστει τοῦ εὐαγγελίου, which have no exact parallel in the NT, are best rendered ‘for the faith of the gospel’ (τῇ πίστει is a dative of interest or advantage, rather than of instrument).52 τοῦ εὐαγγελίου is a genitive of origin (‘the faith which is based on the gospel’) rather than an appositional genitive (‘the faith which is the gospel’) or an objective one (‘the faith in the gospel’). The Philippians are to stand united in their struggle for the cause of the faith—its spread and growth, the same goal that was set before all of Paul’s work.
Peter Thomas O'Brien, The Epistle to the Philippians : A Commentary on the Greek Text, 152 (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans, 1991).
Hawthorne seems to see it the same way:
Here that goal is to preserve τῇ πίστει τοῦ εὐαγγελίου, “the faith brought about by the gospel.” This interpretation of the expression (unique in the NT [Bockmuehl, 99]) understands (1) that τῇ πίστει, “the faith,” here is an early example of the tendency for the word πίστις, “faith,” to become a technical term for “creed”—those things that the Christian believes (cf. also 1 Tim 3:9; 4:1, 6; 5:8; 6:10, 21; Jude 3). (2) It understands that the dative τῇ πίστει, “the faith,” is a dative of interest or advantage (so too O’Brien, 152), to be translated “for the faith,” “to preserve the faith,” and not a dative of association governed by the preposition σύν, “with,” in the compound word συναθλοῦντες, “struggling together with,” to be translated “with the faith” (as does Hall, ExpTim 85 [1974] 119–20; see also Jones, Lightfoot). The context, with its stress on community, demands that ἀλλήλοις, “with one another,” be mentally supplied if one needs to see a substantive governed by συναθλοῦντες, “struggling together with.” (3) It also understands that τοῦ εὐαγγελίου, “the gospel,” is a subjective genitive, meaning that the gospel is the generative power of the Christian’s creed, that the good news that God has acted in Christ for man’s salvation is the source and origin of the faith, the essence of what a Christian believes (i.e., “brought about by the gospel”).
Gerald F. Hawthorne, vol. 43, Word Biblical Commentary : Philippians, Word Biblical Commentary, 71 (Dallas: Word, Incorporated, 2004).
Loh & Eugene recognise that it could be taken either way:
The expression the faith of the gospel appears only here in the New Testament. Faith is in the dative case in Greek and this can be taken as an instrumental dative, resulting in the rendering “with the faith of the gospel” (Knox). TEV, however, along with most translations, takes it to be a dative of interest and so renders for the faith of the gospel. The word faith seems to be used here in the semitechnical sense of the content of the gospel (Eph 4:5).
The genitive construction the faith of the gospel can be taken as in apposition, that is, “the faith which is the gospel.” It can also be interpreted as an objective genitive, “the faith in the gospel.” It seems better, however, to take it in the sense of “the faith which is appropriate to the gospel,” or “the faith which is based on the gospel.” If it is interpreted this way, “the gospel” may have an attributive force, thus “the gospel faith” (NEB). It is important to note that Paul is urging his readers to fight for “the faith appropriate to the gospel,” not for “the gospel which is believed.”
A more or less literal translation of the faith of the gospel leads almost inevitably to a misunderstanding which makes faith essentially equivalent to the good news or the content of the good news. If, however, one interprets the faith of the gospel in terms of faith which is appropriate to, or based upon, the gospel, it may be necessary to make the relation quite explicit, for example, “fight for the kind of trust which results from the good news,” or “… the kind of faith which those who believe the good news have.
I-Jin Loh and Eugene Albert Nida, A Handbook on Paul's Letter to the Philippians, UBS Helps for translators; UBS handbook series, 40-41 (New York: United Bible Societies, 1995).
These tend to show some of the discussions around this
Hi Graham,
Really thank you for your input. I love it. As for the info that you posted, i have actually already taken a look before. and it's clear that most scholars look at that as a dative of interest.
But there are reasons that I tend to look at it as dative of instrument.
First, theology of faith in Philippians. Of all four occurances in Philippians, πίστις is something that empowers the believers.
Second, Paul already asked the believers to ἀξίως τοῦ εὐαγγελίου τοῦ Χριστοῦ πολιτεύεσθε in 1:27. According to my interpretation of the greek sentence structure of 1:27-30, μιᾷ ψυχῇ συναθλοῦντες τῇ πίστει τοῦ εὐαγγελίου belongs to the part where Paul gives detailed instructions on how should the believers πολιτεύεσθε. They should στήκετε, by συναθλοῦντες and μὴ πτυρόμενοι. Interpretating that τῇ of τῇ πίστει τοῦ εὐαγγελίου as dative of instrument smooths the flow better.
Third, according to Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics: by Daniel B. Wallace, on page 142 and 162,
Dative of Interest...indicates the person (or, rarely, thing) interested in the verbal action.....
whereas Dative of Means/Instrument..... The noun in the dative is conceived of as impersonal.....
I see τῇ πίστει τοῦ εὐαγγελίου, compared to the believers at Philippi, more of a thing that personsified stuff.
[:)] This is part of my argument in my ThM. thesis, due to finish by the end of this February.
Blessings,
The Lexham resource referenced in this thread is the only syntactic resource that offers this type of classification. The other two syntax databases (OpenText, Cascadia) identify structural relationships but don't classify Dative of whatever. It sounds like to make your case you will need to find places similar to this instance in Philippians to see if there are other contexts that support your hypothesis.
Hi Scott
First, theology of faith in Philippians. Of all four occurances in Philippians, πίστις is something that empowers the believers.
So, just checking I understand here, presumably you mean that:
Second, Paul already asked the believers to ἀξίως τοῦ εὐαγγελίου τοῦ Χριστοῦ πολιτεύεσθε in 1:27. According to my interpretation of the greek sentence structure of 1:27-30, μιᾷ ψυχῇ συναθλοῦντες τῇ πίστει τοῦ εὐαγγελίου belongs to the part where Paul gives detailed instructions on how should the believers πολιτεύεσθε. They should στήκετε, by συναθλοῦντες and μὴ πτυρόμενοι. Interpretating that τῇ of τῇ πίστει τοῦ εὐαγγελίου as dative of instrument smooths the flow better.
So here I think you are arguing that it fits the flow of the argument better if Paul is meaning that the Philippians are striving as a consequence of their faith in the gospel (i.e. it is enabling them) as opposed to that they are striving - with him - for the gospel. Is that correct?
In his reply, Kevin commented on the classifications present in the syntactic resources and suggested a way forward.
The issue I see here is that the tagging (dative of advantage / interest) will have been done by someone with a particular perspective on how the word is being used and so I'm not sure how searching for these types of constructs will help. Kevin, am I missing the point of what you are saying?
There are two cases in Philippians where (according to the Lexham SGNT) there is a verb followed by a dative of advantage:
There are two where there is a verb followed by a dative of means: Philippians 1:14 and 1:17 which are both talking about Paul's imprisonment which I would have thought was quite personal!
So I guess one approach could be to review these cases and take a view on these taggings.
Sorry I can't think of anything else at the moment.
You got me correct. And I agree with you that the syntatic database reflects how one interprets the passage. So, searching it might not reflect too much sigificances, I guess. My take of the theology of faith in Philippians stems from my understanding on the theme of the letter: The paradigm of suffering and vindication used by God to the faithful servants, should be met by efforts of the Philippians as this suffering, part of the paradigm, is from God and is a grace to them, since it enables them to know Christ, who exhibits the character of God through his suffering. Moreover, perseverance in the paradigm helps preach the gospel, and this is God's way. Therefore, faith refers to perseverance/conviction to the paradigm as exhibited by Jesus, Paul......
Seems distract from the original topic....but well, never mind.
Thanks Scott
Appreciate your insights
I was suggesting that Scott use the syntax search to find places like Phil 1:27 where a Dative is present that may or may not be a dative of advantage. I was not suggesting that he use the Lexham syntax database with its syntactic force tags but either Cascadia or OpenText different approach. Finding examples or passages structurally similar to Phil 1:27 may help his hypothesis.
However, for these types of classification the local context is always king.
I was suggesting that Scott use the syntax search to find places like Phil 1:27 where a Dative is present that may or may not be a dative of advantage. I was not suggesting that he use the Lexham syntax database with its syntactic force tags but either Cascadia or OpenText different approach. Finding examples or passages structurally similar to Phil 1:27 may help his hypothesis
Thanks Kevin - that clarifies for me.
