No more access to purchased content
Comments
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Director of Zoeproject
www.zoeproject.com
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Even more:
Looks like same February 1 article posted few days ago [;)]
New article today about subscriptions and restricitons => http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/02/08/european_publishers_upset_over_apples_itunes_subscription_fees.html
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Another article => http://www.macnews.com/2011/02/08/analyst-ftc-may-frown-upon-apples-ebook-vendor-policy
FTC Bureau of Competition information => http://www.ftc.gov/bc/about.shtm
Keep Smiling [:)]
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I'd still like to hear the official Logos take on this. Even if that take is "I don't know yet".
Intentionally silent. Our app meets Apples guidelines and we are glad to offer it on the iPhone.
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I'd still like to hear the official Logos take on this. Even if that take is "I don't know yet".
Intentionally silent. Our app meets Apples guidelines and we are glad to offer it on the iPhone.
Thank you Bob Pritchett so much for the reply!!! I was realy worrying about this issue
"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill
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I'd still like to hear the official Logos take on this. Even if that take is "I don't know yet".
Intentionally silent. Our app meets Apples guidelines and we are glad to offer it on the iPhone.
Thank you Bob Pritchett so much for the reply!!! I was realy worrying about this issue
I am still confused. Does this mean that Apples statement about requiring you to have in-app purchases for content offered outside, is incorrect? Have Aple changed their mind? Should I buy an iPad?
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I am still confused. Does this mean that Apples statement about requiring you to have in-app purchases for content offered outside, is incorrect? Have Aple changed their mind?
The particular issue with the Sony app is not just that it offers content outside the app, but that it allows purchase of that content from inside the app that doesn't go through Apple's store. Logos' app, on the other hand, doesn't allow any in-app purchasing.
What Bob is therefore saying, I think, is that the Logos app meets Apple's official guidelines (though he is not saying that Logos meets the requirements of some of the additional statements Apple have made). He's also saying that he's not going to put his head above Apple's parapet which could result in the Logos app ending up in the firing line.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Bob,
Thanks for chiming in. I had hoped to hear from someone with a Logos logo under their Avatar. Having you be that person, does not surprise me. I continue to be impressed with your interaction with your customer base. It is rare in today's fast-paced environement. So, all the more, I appreciate it.
I remain a little concerned by the thought of "intentional silence". Not because Logos is doing anything wrong by it, but because of the note of uncertainty it leaves in my mind. That said, I suppose my concern is really more with Apple. I would really feel bad if I were to spend the money for an iPad (as is my plan for the Gen2 iPad), only to find that the ONE app I really wanted to use on it stopped working sometime shortly after that purchase.
What Bob is therefore saying, I think, is that the Logos app meets Apple's official guidelines (though he is not saying that Logos meets the requirements of some of the additional statements Apple have made). He's also saying that he's not going to put his head above Apple's parapet which could result in the Logos app ending up in the firing line.
This quote from Mark is part of that concern. I continue to wonder what happens if Apple does zero in on the #1 Bible app. My hope is that Logos could and would adapt in some way to keep the app functional. Considering the vast investment made already, I can only assume as much. I will take your comments to mean as much for now, but please do let us know if that changes before the iPad2 rollout.
Thank you.
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Many of the iPhone / iPad apps are intended to use content purchased outside the app. MLB.com is a popular baseball app. To watch video you buy the content on the MLB.com site. The Dishnetwork TV anywhere is another. Netflicks is another. There are lots and lots of them that sell their books, movies, and video on a website.
That is fine with Apple, and they are not about to ban their most popular apps.
The problem Apple has is when the content is sold through the app, and Apple doesn't get a cut. That is what Sony was doing.
Logos will have no problem since their app is about using content we have already purchased, not purchasing content through the app. I think everyone is worked up about nothing.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
I'd still like to hear the official Logos take on this. Even if that take is "I don't know yet".
Intentionally silent. Our app meets Apples guidelines and we are glad to offer it on the iPhone.
Thank you Bob Pritchett so much for the reply!!! I was realy worrying about this issue
I am still confused. Does this mean that Apples statement about requiring you to have in-app purchases for content offered outside, is incorrect? Have Aple changed their mind? Should I buy an iPad?
Look at the sources for the original tempest, Sony who intentionally violated apple policy, and the New York times who was told they could not use their free app in conjunction with external subscriptions. I can't say anything about Amazon other than Apples claim it will never remove the App from the store (the higher ups may know something different, i have no idea). Had Sony offered web based book ordering like Barns and noble amazon and ereader do it would have been acceptable. There is no way to buy books from sony outside of one of their APPS. They can still go this route but if they want to do that on the iPhone app requires their cut.
I am very glad Bob chimed in to confirm the sky is not falling.
-Dan
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This quote from Mark is part of that concern. I continue to wonder what happens if Apple does zero in on the #1 Bible app. My hope is that Logos could and would adapt in some way to keep the app functional. Considering the vast investment made already, I can only assume as much. I will take your comments to mean as much for now, but please do let us know if that changes before the iPad2 rollout.
Thank you.
I am sure Apple has nothing against Olivetrees Bible reader. [:D] Nor do they have anything against Logos, which one day may take to be the #1 spot in the iPhone as they have in the Windows desktop world and arguably as well in the Mac world.
-Dan
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I am sure Apple has nothing against Olivetrees Bible reader.
LOL. Well, it'll always be #1 to me.
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Well, the bad news is official. Wonder what it will mean for the Logos app?
http://futurebook.net/content/official-apple-locks-down-kindle-app
Director of Zoeproject
www.zoeproject.com
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Apple press release about subscription service for publishers of all content-based apps => http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/02/15appstore.html
For subscription content, Apple wants 30 % cut of revenue via in-app purchasing along with forbidding app linking to external web site plus in-app purchasing must offer same or better price as external.
Well, the bad news is official. Wonder what it will mean for the Logos app?
http://futurebook.net/content/official-apple-locks-down-kindle-app
Concur - not know about future business viability of Logos application for iOS (nor Kindle nor Nook ...).
Wish Apple would allow in-app purchasing price to be 50 % higher (include Apple's 30 % revenue cut and additional cost for second digital store).
Keep Smiling [:)]
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The way it is worded, the only thing that would be a problem in the Logos app is the links on the front page. Everything else is purchased without links in the app.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
June 30 deadline for existing content applications to add in-app purchasing => http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20110215/june-30-deadline-for-apple-subscriptions/
Wonder if Apple sent Logos a memo about June 30 deadline to add in-app purchasing ?
Observation: Apple has # 1 (iPhone), # 2 (iPod Touch), and # 6 (iPad) mobile devices worldwide => http://www.ipodnn.com/articles/11/02/15/htc.rapidly.closing.on.top.manufacter.spot/ along with lots of app store sales => http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20032012-37.html
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Wonder if Apple sent Logos a memo about June 30 deadline to add in-app purchasing ?
[:O]
I hope I can still use Logos on the iPad after that date.
[*-)]
The Logos app was the only reason that I bought an iPad!
[H]
iMac Retina 5K, 27": 3.6GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9; 16GB RAM;MacOS 10.15.5; 1TB SSD; Logos 8
MacBook Air 13.3": 1.8GHz; 4GB RAM; MacOS 10.13.6; 256GB SSD; Logos 8
iPad Pro 32GB WiFi iOS 13.5.1
iPhone 8+ 64GB iOS 13.5.1
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This is all much ado about nothing as none of this should mean anything to logos. You can not purchase any books for the ipad, Iphone, or the ITouch, no matter how much you pay or who you pay. However, if you purchase a set of books for Logos on your desktop or laptop, you may have visual access to your books via your Ipad, Iphone, or Itouch. This ditty from apple is only about purchasing content for your I device, but when there is nothing to purchase, and realize that Logos has always said that the app was free as well as the engine, and that you are only viewing what you already own on the I device, then there should be no problem.
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You can not purchase any books for the ipad, Iphone, or the ITouch, no matter how much you pay or who you pay.
Observation: Amazon Kindle and Barnes & Noble Nook business models are similar to Logos for purchasing book license(s) - can purchase a license for viewing on many devices; associated iOS applications are free.
Apple now wants book seller profit if digital content license purchased via Apple's store on iOS devices + not know about future of Kindle and Nook iOS applications.
However, if you purchase a set of books for Logos on your desktop or laptop, you may have visual access to your books via your Ipad, Iphone, or Itouch.
If Apple rejects free Logos application (for lacking in app purchasing), then future visual access to Logos books on iOS devices may be limited to Biblia.com web site.
By the way, Apple has rejected and removed applications for not complying with Apple's developer's agreement => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_of_apps_%28iOS_apps%29
Wonder if Apple sent Logos a memo about June 30 deadline to add in-app purchasing ?
I hope I can still use Logos on the iPad after that date.
The Logos app was the only reason that I bought an iPad!
If Logos rejected, not know if Apple plans to remove application from existing iOS devices - have been able to use an iOS application after removal from Apple's App Store, including downloading new digital content. Hoping offline search added to Logos iOS application.Keep Smiling [:)]
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This is all much ado about nothing as none of this should mean anything to logos. You can not purchase any books for the ipad, Iphone, or the ITouch, no matter how much you pay or who you pay. However, if you purchase a set of books for Logos on your desktop or laptop, you may have visual access to your books via your Ipad, Iphone, or Itouch. This ditty from apple is only about purchasing content for your I device, but when there is nothing to purchase, and realize that Logos has always said that the app was free as well as the engine, and that you are only viewing what you already own on the I device, then there should be no problem.
Either you're misreading Apple's comments or you haven't read their latest comments. They've specifically stated that if an iPhone/iPad application allows the purchase of content *outside* of the device, and that content can be accessed by the app when running on the device, then the app has to allow the same purchase to be made via the device, with Apple getting their 30% cut. This is exactly what Logos does, even if the initial purchase may be directed at the Logos desktop environment. In fact, I can't think of any reason why someone couldn't buy every iPhone/iPad-available piece of content that Logos sells, access all of it from their iPhone/iPad, and never install the desktop software. It may not make much sense given the current limitations of the Logos app, but I think it could be done.
Donnie
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Donnie, yes, I am afraid that someone has missed the point... but in this case it is actually everyone here who is worried about loosing the logos app... and the point is that it is impossible to purchase anything from the app, or from logos and put it in the app. It may sound like semantics here, but you can not purchase books for your ipone/ipad, you can only purchase them for your Logos 4 computer, and they will become available for viewing on your iphone/ipad. that is the difference. with amazon, if you so desire, you can purchase a book right from the iphone/ipad and it will become available as soon as you can download it... you can not do this on the logos app. the Logos app is not designed for sales, so therefore apple can not require it to become such... it is not a sales tool. If anyone has a an issue with what I say, then just let it play out and you will see what I mean. worrying about it now, will never solve it!
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with amazon, if you so desire, you can purchase a book right from the iphone/ipad and it will become available as soon as you can download it... you can not do this on the logos app
I'm missing the distinction. I purchase books for both my Kindle app and my Logos app. They both work the same way. The purchase is made on the Amazon/Logos website and then it's available to me in the respective app. I can't purchase from within the Kindle app...
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with amazon, if you so desire, you can purchase a book right from the iphone/ipad and it will become available as soon as you can download it... you can not do this on the logos app
I'm missing the distinction. I purchase books for both my Kindle app and my Logos app. They both work the same way. The purchase is made on the Amazon/Logos website and then it's available to me in the respective app. I can't purchase from within the Kindle app...
Concur with missing distinction. Currently Kindle app on iOS has button for launching Safari browser to Amazon's web store for Kindle.
Semantic observation: Logos purchases are associated with your Logos account - can be viewed on variety of devices including desktop computers. Currently can purchase Logos resources from Logos web site or Logos sales entering on your behalf - either way order history visible at Logos web site for your account => https://www.logos.com/user/orders
Likewise plan to wait and watch along with postponing iPad 2 purchase plans.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Donnie, yes, I am afraid that someone has missed the point... but in this case it is actually everyone here who is worried about loosing the logos app... and the point is that it is impossible to purchase anything from the app, or from logos and put it in the app. It may sound like semantics here, but you can not purchase books for your ipone/ipad, you can only purchase them for your Logos 4 computer, and they will become available for viewing on your iphone/ipad. that is the difference. with amazon, if you so desire, you can purchase a book right from the iphone/ipad and it will become available as soon as you can download it... you can not do this on the logos app. the Logos app is not designed for sales, so therefore apple can not require it to become such... it is not a sales tool. If anyone has a an issue with what I say, then just let it play out and you will see what I mean. worrying about it now, will never solve it!
I understand your point. However, we *can* download our Logos content to the app / device and have it available for offline viewing (thus it is *not* "impossible", as you asserted). With the Kindle app, it's required; with the Logos app, it's optional. So I suppose Apple could let Logos slide (if it's on their radar). Or Logos could remove the "offline" functionality if that's sufficient to make them compliant (which would be horrible as a user). That may have been in Bob Pritchett's mind when he posted his very terse response in this thread.
Note also that Apple has stated that it doesn't matter where you can purchase the content at present. It's whether you can purchase it anywhere and have the content on the device. So *if* Kindle didn't allow purchasing content directly from the device (I know that they do allow it), Apple is saying that since you can purchase it elsewhere (e.g. a regular web browser) and have the content show up on the device, you're out of compliance. You'd have to enhance your application to allow purchasing the same content at the same price via Apple's content purchase mechanisms (you can't even use your own shopping cart).
Even though Apple's hardware is outstanding, I'm a cynic when it comes to Apple's business practices. I don't expect them to back off the letter of their law - if they did, someone like Amazon would have grounds for complaint.
I know if I were Logos, I'd be running toward Android as fast as possible.
Donnie
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So *if* Kindle didn't allow purchasing content directly from the device (I know that they do allow it)
I'm running the Kindle app on my iPad, and I'm fairly certain I cannot purchase content directly from my device (from the app, that is). I have to use a regular web browser.
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So *if* Kindle didn't allow purchasing content directly from the device (I know that they do allow it)
I'm running the Kindle app on my iPad, and I'm fairly certain I cannot purchase content directly from my device (from the app, that is). I have to use a regular web browser.
That is covered in the latest details to come out (the app launches Safari on the device, which is what I meant in my comment). From the comments that Apple released today, the Kindle software has to be updated to make the purchases go through Apple's content purchasing system. Amazon has until summer to make the change.
Donnie
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Article mentions potential anti-trust concerns => http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/02/15/apples_app_store_subscription_rules_spark_anti_trust_concerns_as_developers_rage.html
Even though Apple's hardware is outstanding, I'm a cynic when it comes to Apple's business practices. I don't expect them to back off the letter of their law - if they did, someone like Amazon would have grounds for complaint.
If publishers could offer in-app purchasing on iOS devices with 50 % markup, then everybody wins - consumer can chose to use one click convenience within app so $ 150 purchase has $ 45 going to Apple with $ 105 to publisher for $ 100 item in publisher's store (publisher receives $ 5 that helps defray cost of managing orders for 2 digital stores) with same royalties paid to copyright holders. Appears Apple hoping to bring more customers to publisher via millions of Apple's devices so publisher needs 42.86 % more sales to receive same revenue (e.g. publisher's 21 sales of $ 10 = $ 210 needs 30 sales of $ 10 on iOS for publisher to receive $ 210).
I know if I were Logos, I'd be running toward Android as fast as possible.
Another item on my watch list is Oracle's lawsuit filed against Google about Android - mentioned in forum discussion => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/3685/214702.aspx#214702 - later reply include Google's plan to fragment Android market.
Thankful can use Logos application on iPad - currently not have recommendation for future mobile purchase(s) - watching and praying so everyone smiles [8-|]
Keep Smiling [:)]
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It seems that this battle has been brewing for a long time:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/28/business/media/28media.html
Amazon has established itself as the "low price leader" in the e-book business and Apple clearly wants a cut. Their reported new policy/strategy will essentially force competitors to hand over most (if not all) of their profit to Apple. As a result, it will drive e-book prices higher. That is good news for Apple because it will allow them to make the healthy margins that they have always wanted plus enable them to take a huge cut of any competitors' profits. Kind of reminds me of how John D. Rockefeller forced the railroads to give him a rebate not only his oil shipments but also on those of his competitors. It looks as if Logos and similar app developers are going to be collateral damage in this war. If Apple requires app developers to sell any products that are available outside of the app inside the app and at the same price, it looks like the Logos app that we have come to know and love will be history. Also disturbing is the reported possible ban of any books sold outside of the app store from being downloaded by the app.
It looks like the rebellion against Apple has begun:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/15/rhapsody-wont-bow-to-apples-subscription-policy-issues-statem/
I hope Logos will clarify things soon given this new development.
Director of Zoeproject
www.zoeproject.com
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If publishers could offer in-app purchasing on iOS devices with 50 % markup, then everybody wins - consumer can chose to use one click convenience within app so $ 150 purchase has $ 45 going to Apple with $ 105 to publisher for $ 100 item in publisher's store (publisher receives $ 5 that helps defray cost of managing orders for 2 digital stores) with same royalties paid to copyright holders. Appears Apple hoping to bring more customers to publisher via millions of Apple's devices so publisher needs 42.86 % more sales to receive same revenue (e.g. publisher's 21 sales of $ 10 = $ 210 needs 30 sales of $ 10 on iOS for publisher to receive $ 210).
Unfortunately, Apple has said that in-app purchases must be the same or less than the price offered outside the app.
I would really appreciate some clarification from Logos as I am considering an ipad. The last response from them was not very satisfying at all.
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This recent clarification is good news, and I'm not sure it's been fully understood. The confusion stems from the new subscription model that Apple is launching. There is not yet any official confirmation that the new subscription model will have exactly the same rules as the purchasing of individual resources (what Apple calls content). Let me quote the relevant passage from Apple's press release:
Apple does require that if a publisher chooses to sell a digital
subscription separately outside of the app, that same subscription offer
must be made available, at the same price or less, to customers who
wish to subscribe from within the app. In addition, publishers may no
longer provide links in their apps (to a web site, for example) which
allow the customer to purchase content or subscriptions outside of the
app.So, to clarify:
- Apple does say that subscriptions must be made available to purchase in the app if they are available outside the app.
- Apple does not say that content must be made available to purchase in the app if it is available outside the app.
- Apple does say that apps may not link to a website where content may be purchased.
Therefore, assuming Apple don't change this again:
- Your Logos content is safe.
- Logos won't need to add 10,000 resources into Apple's in-app purchasing scheme, and lose 30% of the revenue.
- Logos will need to remove the 'news' item on the home page that links to the Logos store.
<edit>I appreciate that some sites are reporting that Apple are treating content and subscriptions in the same way: "Amazon must also implement Apple's single-click in-app purchasing of content". But none of them are quoting Apple or Amazon directly. Until they do, there's no reason to believe it.</edit>
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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