Why are we Brits not allowed to download the NEW JERUSALEM BIBLE on Logos?

P A

Those of us who are not blessed enough to live in North America are denied this right.

This is a British translation, the publisher is British.

This seems very silly to me.

Any words of wisdom from my Logos brothers and sisters would be welcome.

Paul

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Comments

TCBlack

I know nothing about this specific case but I suspect it may in some way be like the KJV issue of copyright. In USA the KJV has no copyright, not quite so over the pond.

As for the NJB I can't imagine it would be quite the same thing but it may give you an area to look for the answer.

DominicM

its because of "International Rights", it does seem strange, but the whole rights issue is pre-digital, and quite normal..

The US copyright is owned by a different publisher who has licenced it digitally for its territories. DLT sadly havent freed up the licence, you will need to contact DLT on this issue and pleas they contact Logos and allow the lifting of the rights restriction, without DLT or UK digital copyright holder permission it will never happen.

fgh

I don't know for sure about this, but it does say that "the New Jerusalem Bible can only be sold to customers whose billing address is in the United States or Canada". It doesn't say download address. So it ought to be possible to have Logos charge an American card, but unlock for a European customer (like if it was a gift from an American to a European). And then the European can simply pay the American the same amount, without Logos' involvement, either before or after the card is charged.

If this is possible, all you need is an American friend, or some nice and honest person here on the forums, who is willing to let his card be used for the transaction.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/234959#Comment_234959

its because of "International Rights", it does seem strange, but the whole rights issue is pre-digital, and quite normal..

Yes, it's about international copyrights. But these don't "seem strange", they are. Actually these pre-digital issues are not "normal", but crazy. The publishers work to restrict digital access far more than they restrict it for paper-based books.

Examples: Amazon or any other seller of books will happily charge my German credit card and ship me a paper book from the US - but they are often not allowed to sell the eBook version of it to me as a download. Other example: Due to geographic IP filtering, installed on behalf of European publishers, I can't access scanned book versions on e.g. google books, even if these books are globally in the public domain etc.

Robert M. Warren

This seems very silly to me.

It's from the Ministry of Silly Copyright Rules. [;)]

Giovanni Baggio

Hayyy Paul Spa-ee-cer,

Can't imitate Brit's accent in writing. [;)] Anyway, I have a question for u: How would you say: "We must appreciate Jesus' bloody sacrifice on the cross" in proper Brit's language? I went to Lincoln, England last year and when I said that everybody looked at me with eyes wide open; so I'm trying to find the proper Brit way of saying that. Can you help?

Giovanni

john joyce

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/235104#Comment_235104

Hayyy Paul Spa-ee-cer,

Can't imitate Brit's accent in writing. Anyway, I have a question for u: How would you say: "We must appreciate Jesus' bloody sacrifice on the cross" in proper Brit's language? I went to Lincoln, England last year and when I said that everybody looked at me with eyes wide open; so I'm trying to find the proper Brit way of saying that. Can you help?

Giovanni

Paul is probably, sensibly, still in bed. Until he awakes....

In that context I can't understand what the problem was to be honest. If you can live without the blood I would say something like ultimate sacrifice, or even just sacrifice! Lincoln is a very rural area [;)]

Lack of NJB is a disaster. None of the existing logos Catholic bibles are anglicized. If I could find a way around this I would be delighted. If there is a way I could pay someone (paypal perhaps?) to get and transfer this to my account then count me in.

Also if nobody wants their (discontinued) St Jerome Commentary then yes please!

John

DominicM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/235104#Comment_235104

Hayyy Paul Spa-ee-cer,

Can't imitate Brit's accent in writing. Anyway, I have a question for u: How would you say: "We must appreciate Jesus' bloody sacrifice on the cross" in proper Brit's language? I went to Lincoln, England last year and when I said that everybody looked at me with eyes wide open; so I'm trying to find the proper Brit way of saying that. Can you help?

Giovanni

Bloody to some folks has same effect as using the "F" word, but in your context is propper english..

Nothing wrong with that.. must have been a sanitised (no-blood) church [:P] sadly they are on the rise..

No need to change wording, just be careful not to emphasise the word bloody, put the emphasis/stress on the word Jesus and say bloody in same tone and speed as rest, and no one should bat an eyelid, and if they do just point then at Isaiah..

Richard Wardman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/235104#Comment_235104

Hayyy Paul Spa-ee-cer,

Can't imitate Brit's accent in writing. Anyway, I have a question for u: How would you say: "We must appreciate Jesus' bloody sacrifice on the cross" in proper Brit's language? I went to Lincoln, England last year and when I said that everybody looked at me with eyes wide open; so I'm trying to find the proper Brit way of saying that. Can you help?

Giovanni

Hey Giovanni. I live in Lincoln, England!!!! I can well imagine the funny looks you received having said that! You could just drop the 'y' - i.e. "We must appreciate Jesus' blood sacrifice on the cross" That would keep the meaning, but avoid the funny Lincoln looks!

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/235156#Comment_235156

If I could find a way around this I would be delighted. If there is a way I could pay someone (paypal perhaps?) to get and transfer this to my account then count me in.

Be careful with the word 'transfer' here. A transfer -- i e a resource unlocked on someone else's account and then transferred over to yours -- is what you don't want, unless you absolutely have to, since a transfer costs a $20 administrative fee, which, for a single book, would be rather expensive. What you want is a [fake] 'gift', where the resource is never unlocked to the person providing the card, but goes directly to you. Unfortunately, I'm in the same predicament as you, so I can't offer.

Jerome, of course, would have to be a transfer, since you're extremely unlikely to find a copy for sale that has never been registered to anyone. Which is why I'm not really looking. I'd jump if I could find a second hand copy for sale together with enough other stuff I want to be worth the transfer fee (which is per transaction, not per resource), but alone... not unless I get it virtually for free.

john joyce

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/235252#Comment_235252

thanks for pointing that out fgh

I presume if I was to "sell" my full account (not beyond the realms of possibility the way I feel at present) this is where I would pay the $20?

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/235252#Comment_235252

If I could find a way around this I would be delighted. If there is a way I could pay someone (paypal perhaps?) to get and transfer this to my account then count me in.

Be careful with the word 'transfer' here. A transfer -- i e a resource unlocked on someone else's account and then transferred over to yours -- is what you don't want, unless you absolutely have to, since a transfer costs a $20 administrative fee, which, for a single book, would be rather expensive. What you want is a [fake] 'gift', where the resource is never unlocked to the person providing the card, but goes directly to you. Unfortunately, I'm in the same predicament as you, so I can't offer.

Jerome, of course, would have to be a transfer, since you're extremely unlikely to find a copy for sale that has never been registered to anyone. Which is why I'm not really looking. I'd jump if I could find a second hand copy for sale together with enough other stuff I want to be worth the transfer fee (which is per transaction, not per resource), but alone... not unless I get it virtually for free.

It is $20 per transaction. If you have 10 items transferred to the same person it is still only $20. I know this not because I have done it but because somewhere in the archives here a discussion of transferring took place and Bob made it very clear it is not per resource but per transfer.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/235252#Comment_235252

Jerome, of course, would have to be a transfer, since you're extremely unlikely to find a copy for sale that has never been registered to anyone.

If you want it bad enough I think the $20 fee is still worth it. There have been many times I buy a boxed product that is 80% duplicated in my library, just so I can have the few titles that are not.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/235156#Comment_235156

Lack of NJB is a disaster. None of the existing logos Catholic bibles are anglicized. If I could find a way around this I would be delighted. If there is a way I could pay someone (paypal perhaps?) to get and transfer this to my account then count me in.

I am afraid it gets more complicated than that. If Logos had their way, there would be no geographical or governmental boundaries on licensing.. I'm not sure but I believe your ability to access a licensed resource depends on your registration address of record. I think Logos would be responsible to block or allow access depending upon the location of the account holder. (I would hope it otherwise since I am not a fan of government requiring others to enforce edicts.)

So if your account is licensed in the UK you would not be able to have the North American copyrighted NIV but the Anglicised NIV instead. We discussed this in a previous thread: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/1948.aspx I have heard missionaries complain about the copyright laws creating difficulties.

A product's utility (whether or not it is localized linguistically) has no bearing on the publishers jockeying for their share of the profits. So Anglicised Catholic Bibles may could be provided without hindrance while the NJB is blocked. It all depends on the publishers

Unhappy? [:@] YES. Mad at Logos, no. [:(]

addendum: As I ponder the WHY of the current situation it occurred to me the people setting all the boundaries and limitations are probably at least as old as myself (or 20 years older) and never imagined the world we would live in today. There needs to be a new perspective on copyright law that acknowledges business and human interactions that span the globe. Until then we will be dogged by archaic practices.

Giovanni Baggio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/235187#Comment_235187

Thanks Richard, Dominic & John!

I enjoyed my visit to Lincoln, I wish I lived there, but there's no work for me there and I have to support myself somehow. I like England over all, especially the cool gothic (IMO) Big Ben clock! Awesome view!

Blessings!

Giovanni

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/235319#Comment_235319

if your account is licensed in the UK you would not be able to have the North American copyrighted NIV but the Anglicised NIV instead

Admittedly, I'm not in the UK, but I am in Europe, and I have at least 3 American NIVs, which I got through the base packages. There is nothing on the NIV product page stating any restrictions.

I believe your ability to access a licensed resource depends on your registration address of record

That is certainly possible, but, like I pointed out above, the NJB product page does say that the billing address has to be in North America, not that the download address has to be there.

Gordon Jones

This is indeed a silly situation. I appreciate that there is a legal issue involved. Surely, however, the British publisher would be happy to receive royalties from Logos for UK sales? Does anyone know if Logos has actually asked the UK, European and rest of the world licence holder(s) about making the NJB available for those outside of North America?