NIV
Comments
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You're welcome to reiterate, and I don't mean to offend, but it still doesn't make sense no matter how many times it's said. Plenty of other vendors have mobile products with the NIV translation; ergo, it isn't a Zondervan issue, it's a Logos issue. Were it a Zondervan issue, nobody would have the NIV.
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You're welcome to reiterate, and I don't mean to offend, but it still doesn't make sense no matter how many times it's said. Plenty of other vendors have mobile products with the NIV translation; ergo, it isn't a Zondervan issue, it's a Logos issue. Were it a Zondervan issue, nobody would have the NIV.
I understand Zondervan's position a bit. Other companies are offering you files you own. Some install to your device front he net others allow you to install from your own application on your computer. Logos is offering you viewing rights for files it has placed in it's cloud. Most publishers are being ok with it, some are basically saying the cloud version is like a different product. As long as they view it as a completely different product i understand their point even though i disagree with it. One day I hope we gain access to all our files but I doubt it is going to happen anytime in the near future. This is little different than the record companies that use to say making an MP3 from a CD was wrong. Now everyone accepts it as a legal thing to do. Most people are not out to steal files, just wanting the right to use what we own.
-Dan
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You're welcome to reiterate, and I don't mean to offend, but it still doesn't make sense no matter how many times it's said. Plenty of other vendors have mobile products with the NIV translation; ergo, it isn't a Zondervan issue, it's a Logos issue. Were it a Zondervan issue, nobody would have the NIV.
John
1. Just because Zondervan plays nicely with one group, doesn't mean that they have to play nicely with another. I don't know if this is the case, I'm just saying.
2. Bob has stated his philosophy (one license, any device), and that the NIV is NOT a Logos issue (See HERE). Unless you feel he is being untruthful, I stick with my previous comments.
3. I do not work for Logos, but I think the issue boils down to this: If Logos really wanted to, it could probably get permission to sell us licenses to read the NIV on our mobile apps (which would be separate from our desktop ones). Other companies seem to have gone this route. However, if Logos caved on this issue, why wouldn't EVERY publisher demand the same? Then we would have a situation where we would have NONE of our resources available to us on mobile apps unless we purchased them again. I would much rather forgo the NIV on my iPad, than to forgo the 1200 other resources that I currently have available. That makes more sense, no matter how many people beg for the NIV.
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Without more specific information, we're speculating in the dark. What I know for certain is (1) other vendors seem to be capable of doing it, so (2) I believe Logos should be capable of doing it. That they don't/can't is a reason to look to another product that can.
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I think it is interesting to note that its a Zondervan Bible issue. I own 96 Zondervan titles in Logos and 92 are available on my mobile devices. The only ones being absent are:
NIV84
NIV2011
TNIV
NIrVIt looks like Logos is permitted to allow Zondervan titles through its mobile device... Just not the Bibles curiously
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Hi - I did the original posting and have been very disappointed with the lack of progress with this. Because it has not eventuated, and there is no sign that it will in the foreseeable future, I have researched other mobile packages and will be slowly shifting away from Logos to a product that, among other things, has the capacity to view the NIV offline.
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Without more specific information, we're speculating in the dark.
The heart of my comments were not speculation. If you had clicked the link, you would have read:
This is 100% out of our control. We don't own the NIV, and need permission from the people who do. We are doing everything we can to get them to give us permission.
I believe Logos should be capable of doing it.
It appears that you are speculating.
What I am really curious to know is what you think about my logic. What if gaining the NIV meant losing every other copyrighted resource on mobile devices without having to repurchase them?
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I did read the link. What I was referring to as speculation were your suggestions that (1) Zondervan would play favorites, granting NIV to everybody but Logos, and (2) that Logos "caving" to Zondervan would somehow unleash the publishing genie from the bottle and prevent us from having any resources on our mobile devices. Those are clearly speculative. The situation remains unchanged: others vendors can provide their customers the NIV, which provides reason to believe Logos is being disingenuous.
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(2) that Logos "caving" to Zondervan would somehow unleash the publishing genie from the bottle and prevent us from having any resources on our mobile devices.
I know for a fact alabama24 might possibly own a publishing genie, maybe. He tried selling it to Zondervan but they refused.
John W, I see your frustration. I'm curious anyone of us speculate the 84 version surviving publicly in a post NIV84 society. The publisher isn't printing it anymore, and instead pushing a new version with the same name. I guess its similar to the NLT96 and NLT04 with the latter replacing the former. I assume you would want the NIV84 to access in mobile format for study aye?
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Bob, I think that it is very important that we all realize that there is no one product that is a match for everyone. I went to the ESV, and am happier than I was with the NIV. there are even more tools for it.
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Yup. That's exactly what I'm after. I'm not denying that there are other translations of merit or anything silly like that. It's just that the NIV is the devil I know; i.e., I know where it's not a great rendering from the Greek, so it's the version I want to carry with me to church and everywhere else. Logos on my iPad makes it easy to take every other version I don't need. I wish for it to provide me the one version I do need.
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Bob, I think that it is very important that we all realize that there is no one product that is a match for everyone. I went to the ESV, and am happier than I was with the NIV. there are even more tools for it.
That makes sense. The RSV is a beautiful translation.
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Yet as you have seen for nearly 2 years it has not happened nor is it likely to happen any time soon from the looks of things. Thus your choices are to...
1. complain about it.
2. change to a new translation.
3. Change to a new app...
The choice is an individual one, and likely to be different for each of us, however, the one option that has not worked for nearly 2 years now, is the 1 first one! God's blessings on your personal search for a remedy.
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I'm going with a mix of (1) and (3). Companies don't change unless customers hold their feet to the fire, which motivates me toward (1). In the meantime, (3) is my only option to keep the NIV with me until Logos figures out how to do what virtually every other company has already accomplished.
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YouVersion is a free iPad/iPhone app and has the NIV (84 and current) available IF you are connected to a network BUT they do not permit you to download it to your iPad/iPhone. As a result, you can use the NIV when you are on the network but not when you are off.
It would be nice if Logos on the iPad would allow one to read the NIV when one is on the network but that may have more to do with the functionality of the Logos iPad app (which is missing a lot of basic functionality) than it does about different rights given to one app provider over the other.
From the apps that I have seen it appears that Zondervan does not want to permit anyone to download the NIV to their mobile device at present. Hopefully this will change.0 -
I believe there is another option that Logos should provide: offer the opportunity for those who so choose to pay for a liscense to use the NIV on their iPhone or iPad. I know many people will not want to do this but a few crazies like me who are anchored in on the NIV will do so. Reaching the twilight of my mediocre career I do not want to adopt another translation (even though there are several out there).
I have read the fears of some who say this would be disasterous as it would break down how the electronic publishing system works. I'm sorry, I do not see that at all.
I am sure Logos is actively trying to solve the problem and I respect their intentions. I am also sure they would prefer not to offer the second purchase option but to just keep working on it to get the all-or-none result. I believe offering the option to purchase the NIV on the iPhone and iPad is overdue.
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Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! I'll happily fork over extra to have the NIV on my iPad. I don't mind paying for value; that's what capitalism is all about. I just want the option. Or any option with Logos for that matter.
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I do agree John, that unless we say something about our displeasure, nothing will change. However, for nearly two years now, this same discussion has been going on, on a nearly weekly basis... it is not working and it has gotten very old. Likely, for those who are needing the NIV, they will need a new app.
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Have faith
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And I do have faith, that based on what God has set before me, using the intellect that He has given me, I honestly don't expect a NIV translation any time soon.... Logos will not allow a fee for use on the app, and Zondervan does not seem to want to budge either... so, in faith, I do not expect to see it until zondervan is shown that their model is not going to work for them.
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Deleted, because of questionable source.
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
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Perhaps it would be helpful if we had an update on the discussion between Zondervan and Logos? Or, if that is contractually not possible, let us know what you can.
In Bible class at my church, we use the NIV84 which means I use the YouVersion. I'm wondering what the YouVersion did to get access that Logos does not have access to. Perhaps the difference is that YouVersion is free where Logos isn't? I even have an off line version of NIV2011 which they offered for a short time. I already had to pay a separate fee to Logos for the NIV84. I'll probably not pay again for the NIV2011 as long as I'm using an iOS device during Bible Class.
I can't understand Zondervan's issue with the mobile device. If it were a book I could carry it anywhere. It is difficult to carry my desktop machine anywhere, but I could carry my iPad or iPhone. Some information that helps me understand why this is an issue, would help me understand why this is difficult to have NIV under Logos on my iOS devices.
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Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! I'll happily fork over extra to have the NIV on my iPad. I don't mind paying for value; that's what capitalism is all about. I just want the option. Or any option with Logos for that matter.
I'm glad Logos isn't giving in to this. Next thing you know, other publishers would insist on the same terms and we'd be paying double for all the resources we want offline. I'd prefer no NIV, and get the other resources accessible in mobile form at no extra cost.
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What I did was download the NIV PDF from here.
There is no way that is being distributed legally.
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There is no way that is being distributed legally.
Perhaps, I deleted my link.
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
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There seems to be a number of publishers that have these issues. I know I had an issue with BKC from David C. Cook on my iPad. It appears to me that publishers make this an issue on their more popular items (NIV, BKC, etc). I really think it is a fairness issue. Back in the days of regular books. If I bought a book I could use it at home, at church or on a trip. Now we have digital books. I had Logos on my computer and Olivetree on my Palm. I had to buy the book twice. If I wanted NIV on both my Palm and computer I paid for it twice. I did not like that, but I lived with it. Olivetree and Logos were different platforms. But now they are wanting me to pay for it a third time to use it on my iPad. I think it is just wrong. I do think it is a publisher issue. David C. Cook as much as told me so (unless I miss understood them). I do not think it is a Logos issue at all. It is behavior like this that causes governmental regulation and intervention. Everything on my systems is legal, that being said, it is also behavior like this that causes people to figure out how to get stuff onto their computers anyway they can.
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Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! I'll happily fork over extra to have the NIV on my iPad. I don't mind paying for value; that's what capitalism is all about. I just want the option. Or any option with Logos for that matter.
I'm glad Logos isn't giving in to this. Next thing you know, other publishers would insist on the same terms and we'd be paying double for all the resources we want offline. I'd prefer no NIV, and get the other resources accessible in mobile form at no extra cost.
[Y]
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I'm wondering what the YouVersion did to get access that Logos does not have access to.
YouVersion is a non-profit organization run by a church (lifechurch.tv). Actually, Zondervan gave YouVersion the ability to allow anyone (within a short window of time, which has already passed) to download the NIV2011 for offline use for free. I am guessing it was 1) a big tax write off and 2) free publicity.
I can't understand Zondervan's issue with the mobile device. If it were a book I could carry it anywhere. It is difficult to carry my desktop machine anywhere, but I could carry my iPad or iPhone. Some information that helps me understand why this is an issue, would help me understand why this is difficult to have NIV under Logos on my iOS devices.
Zondervan basically has the idea (as do some other publishers) that you purchase a license for a single device. An analogy would be that just because you bought a book last year, does give you the right to walk into Barnes & Noble and take a new copy home with you free of charge. Of course, Logos sees things differently, and works hard to allow you to use your license on any device. I agree with their position.
Another thing to note: Logos is primarily in the business of selling resources for a desktop Bible software program - the mobile devices are a bonus. Perhaps this will change with Vyrso.
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Zondervan basically has the idea (as do some other publishers) that you purchase a license for a single device. An analogy would be that just because you bought a book last year, does give you the right to walk into Barnes & Noble and take a new copy home with you free of charge. Of course, Logos sees things differently, and works hard to allow you to use your license on any device. I agree with their position.
I do not see it like I buy a book one year and have lost that book so I want to go to Barns and Noble and get a second book for free. I see it like I want to change what bookshelf i put the book on. The up side of digital books for publishers is unbelievable. No inventory, no printing cost, little need for retail stores. I think publishers are taking advantage of us.
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The up side of digital books for publishers is unbelievable. No inventory, no printing cost, little need for retail stores. I think publishers are taking advantage of us
Yes temporarily. The market should, however, drive the price down. Ultimately doesn't this mean that in the future, if you want a bound paper book, you will be asking for something special, something costly, something that is going to cost you more than it has in the past?
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
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