NIV

Perhaps it would be helpful if we had an update on the discussion between Zondervan and Logos? Or, if that is contractually not possible, let us know what you can.

In Bible class at my church, we use the NIV84 which means I use the YouVersion. I'm wondering what the YouVersion did to get access that Logos does not have access to. Perhaps the difference is that YouVersion is free where Logos isn't? I even have an off line version of NIV2011 which they offered for a short time. I already had to pay a separate fee to Logos for the NIV84. I'll probably not pay again for the NIV2011 as long as I'm using an iOS device during Bible Class.

I can't understand Zondervan's issue with the mobile device. If it were a book I could carry it anywhere. It is difficult to carry my desktop machine anywhere, but I could carry my iPad or iPhone. Some information that helps me understand why this is an issue, would help me understand why this is difficult to have NIV under Logos on my iOS devices.

Jerry M said:

What I did was download the NIV PDF from here.

There is no way that is being distributed legally.

There seems to be a number of publishers that have these issues.  I know I had an issue with BKC from David C. Cook on my iPad.  It appears to me that publishers make this an issue on their more popular items (NIV, BKC, etc).  I really think it is a fairness issue.  Back in the days of regular books.  If I bought a book I could use it at home, at church or on a trip.  Now we have digital books.  I had Logos on my computer and Olivetree on my Palm.  I had to buy the book twice.  If I wanted NIV on both my Palm and computer I paid for it twice.  I did not like that, but I lived with it.  Olivetree and Logos were different platforms.  But now they are wanting me to pay for it a third time to use it on my iPad.  I think it is just wrong.  I do think it is a publisher issue.  David C. Cook as much as told me so (unless I miss understood them).  I do not think it is a Logos issue at all.  It is behavior like this that causes governmental regulation and intervention.  Everything on my systems is legal, that being said, it is also behavior like this that causes people to figure out how to get stuff onto their computers anyway they can.

Richard Stimson said:

The up side of digital books for publishers is unbelievable.  No inventory, no printing cost, little need for retail stores.  I think publishers are taking advantage of us

 Yes temporarily.  The market should, however, drive the price down.  Ultimately doesn't this mean that in the future, if you want a bound paper book, you will be asking for something special, something costly, something that is going to cost you more than it has in the past?   

Chris Roberts said:

Richard Stimson said:

The up side of digital books for publishers is unbelievable.

But there is also a downside, and Bob has posted about it before. If you lose your dead tree copy, you go buy another. If you pass it around and it accumulates a bit of wear and tear, you buy another. But digital copies never degrade and are never lost, so publishers lose any revenue they might otherwise get from repeat purchases. That's a real issue worth considering. Nonetheless, I think on the issue of device usage, users should not be required to buy a second license.

One thing that gives the digital version a leg up in publishers thinking though is anyone can easily sell a physical book or even give it away. Books in digital format can not be sold or given away without some effort, Logos will transfer a licence for a fee, but it is one of the few companies i know of that does that. On the other hand some people take ebooks and hack them to make them free to whomever will download them making the publishers sometimes a little gun-shy about ebooks. Why Zondervan and Cook are being so pig headed I do not know,, it is more than them though Harper Collins hasn't allowed the old harper's comm/dict to be made available on the mobile devices and Liturgical press hasn't allowed their books to be either.

-Dan

Great... youversion again offers the opportunity to download NIV2011 for free offline use and we can't even get NIV2011 for online let alone the NIV84.

Interestingly the NIV84 is available on Biblia.com but not the NIV2011. What is the deal Zondervan? Purchasing the Kindle NIV version means you can use it on multiple devices!

[:D]

John Williston said:

Yes! Yes! Yes! Thanks, Logos, for finally doing what every other publisher managed to do years ago. I'd have been happy to pay extra for it, but to get it as part of my content package is great. Much obliged!

The issue of not having the NIV was with Zondervan, not Logos. If Logos had agreed to charge us a second time for the NIV, what's to stop from being charged for other resources, no just Zondervan but now Thomas Nelson (they are both now owned by Harper Collins). This would set a precident for other publishing companies. This would make the mobile platform too costly for many users. I am glad Logos worked it out so we didn't have to pay again, even if it took awhile. 

Here is an email I got from the CEO Bob Prickett

We sell the NIV under license from Zondervan, and they offer it in partnership with Biblica (formerly International Bible Society), which control the copyright.

With the introduction of the NIV 2011, Biblica (apparently) wants to see the 1984 edition disappear from the market. They don't consider them two products, but rather a single product -- the NIV -- and now that's it has been updated they only want (and only allow) the new one to be sold. We have explained that many churches have investe din the 1984 edition, have paper copies of it that that want complementary resources to, etc. but so far all of our entreaties have been rebuffed. They simply do not want further new distribution of the 1984 edition.

I share your frustration, and hope you'll appreciate that the decision to not sell the 1984 edition is not ours, and does not reflect our wishes -- only our contracts.

Thanks for your support of Logos; I hope it continues to be useful to you.

-- Bob