http://www.logos.com/products/search?q=sheffield+academic+press&start=0&sort=newest&pageSize=60
A bit rich for my blood.
http://www.logos.com/products/search?q=sheffield+academic+press&start=0&sort=newest&pageSize=60 A bit rich for my blood.
Those are extremely high prices! Indeed! I truly sympathise.....
I also very often thank God that I've been with Logos for quite a few years now. The Community Pricing and Pre-Pub programs have saved me an incredible amount of money. Especially from individually priced books outside a collection.
For example: Last October - on pre-pub - I received
Yes they are pricey, but most of these books are thesis papers, and it doesn't matter who is publishing thesis papers; they are always expensive.
http://www.logos.com/products/search?q=sheffield+academic+press&start=0&sort=newest&pageSize=60 A bit rich for my blood. Yes they are pricey, but most of these books are thesis papers, and it doesn't matter who is publishing thesis papers; they are always expensive.
Most of these are included in certain collections which, while costly in themselves, does bring the per book price down considerably. E.g. History of Israel's Traditions: The Heritage of Martin Noth is listed as $180.00. This comes in the History of Israel collection which is $499.95 but includes 19 volumes which are generally also over-priced as singles.
I think I commented about this phenomena some time back--a classic textbook case of being penny-wise and pound-foolish. Because these are "academic" titles, such as theses (as mentiioned above), the publishers live under a preconception that hardly anyone would ever want to read these titles...except for the tiny number of academics who are in the same field of study. These end-user individuals are under a virtual obligation to buy these titles in order to "keep up with the Joneses", aka stay abreast of the most recent research and be able to list the title in their own bibliographies when their thesis is printed (and sold for an exhorbitant amount). In many cases publishers must attempt to make up their printing costs (often fewer than 100-1000 copies total) from the tiny pool of persons interested, most of whom get their university's department or library to make the purchase. Therefore, under the belief that there is only a limited amount of interest and an obligation to purchase, price gouging is de rigueur.
Obviously, the publishers are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy--the ridiculous prices keep non-obligated individuals from ever considering these items unless they are part of a larger package deal. Truth is, much of this stuff is deadly dull, and not having it in your library is a blessing. But some is worthy of attention even if it isn't "worth" purchasing. The prices are absurd.
Of course, you would think that people with the gumption to spend years studying a subject and bothering to get it published would actually WANT a larger number of people to read the fruit of their labors. Ain't gonna happen at the current traditional price-point. And don't expect this to change anytime soon. This is a modus operandi that will only pass into well-deserved oblivion after the egalitarianism of the digital age has nearly left these ivory tower types in the dust of history. They simply don't recognize their is an interested market of individuals who might purchase these times if offered at a resonable price.
I'll agree about the prices, but what is "deadly dull" depends upon the reader. If you have an interest in the field it can be quite fascinating.
I don't know how many buyers of these there would be at Logos, but wouldn't the publisher get the same benefit from selling 10 copies @$9 each versus 1 copy at $90, or 15 copies @$12 each versus 1 copy at $180? I might be willing to on occasion splurge $50 on a collection of several related theses titles, but there is no way I'd buy sight-unseen some possibly soporific and arcane and overly-technical dissertation for $150.
Sheffield Academic Press, can you hear us?
I remember when I first started taking Greek in the 1990s that I was browsing at the DTS bookstore and Buist Fanning's book on Verbal Aspect was $125!!!! Needless to say, it was way, way, way down on my list of possible future purchases, and I still don't own it.
there is no way I'd buy sight-unseen some possibly soporific and arcane and overly-technical dissertation for $150.
Zzzzzzzzz. Where's my credit card?
I really hate to bring it up now (it is too late to take advantage of it) but,
Logos did broker a magnificent deal on many academic titles and offered 2010 volumes for $1 each.
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/27683/208253.aspx#208253
I really hate to bring it up now (it is too late to take advantage of it) but, Logos did broker a magnificent deal on many academic titles and offered 2010 volumes for $1 each. http://community.logos.com/forums/p/27683/208253.aspx#208253
Which reminds me of something. After the gold collection they added the platinum collection and then the portfolio collection. In view of the amazing increase in the price of gas (oil), is the next collection going to be the oil collection? [:D]
After the gold collection they added the platinum collection and then the portfolio collection. In view of the amazing increase in the price of gas (oil), is the next collection going to be the oil collection?
That is a crude joke. [;)] I can see the ad campaigns now:
back on topic: I don't think Logos can get any cheaper than $1 per book. Last Christmas was an example of how the volume purchasing has to work. No cafeteria plans, no tailoring, just one-size-fits-all. Praiser made an extraordinary effort to convince everyone. I am curious to know how many users took up the 2010 Christmas Master Collection offer. Although that special is now part of history, we still have the Community Pricing program.
Because these are "academic" titles, such as theses (as mentiioned above), the publishers live under a preconception that hardly anyone would ever want to read these titles...except for the tiny number of academics who are in the same field of study. These end-user individuals are under a virtual obligation to buy these titles in order to "keep up with the Joneses", aka stay abreast of the most recent research and be able to list the title in their own bibliographies when their thesis is printed (and sold for an exhorbitant amount). In many cases publishers must attempt to make up their printing costs (often fewer than 100-1000 copies total) from the tiny pool of persons interested, most of whom get their university's department or library to make the purchase. Therefore, under the belief that there is only a limited amount of interest and an obligation to purchase, price gouging is de rigueur.
That's not exactly the case. Academic publishers do not view their market as the "end-user individual." Rather they view the market for these monographs as the academic research library that (in theory) has the budge to pay these kinds of amounts.
Yes and no. My own print library is full of a couple hundred volumes like these which will never make it into Logos because they're not biblical studies--they're either technical linguistics or Classical, Medieval and Modern Greek. I'm not "obligated" to buy them, but I do consider them worth their price. Though I try to buy used when I can. And many who are interested in these books but don't want to actually buy them will receive free review copies for journal reviews (or sometimes even blogs, as I have done on occasion, myself).
This is a modus operandi that will only pass into well-deserved oblivion after the egalitarianism of the digital age has nearly left these ivory tower types in the dust of history. They simply don't recognize their is an interested market of individuals who might purchase these times if offered at a resonable price.
Don't count on it. As long as their primary buyers are libraries rather than people, the cost will still be high. It'll just change from print to digital subscriptions (e.g ebrary.com).
Don't know about the thesis biy buy hsving spent $95 for a Old Turkic-German dictionary in the mid 1970's, these prices look downright reasonable. In fact, every book has looked reasonable after that purchase.[:P]
most of these books are thesis papers, and it doesn't matter who is publishing thesis papers; they are always expensive
??? Possibly in the US (I wouldn't know), but certainly not everywhere. I've never noticed Swedish theses being substantially more expensive than other books in the same area. Actually, they're probably more likely to be cheaper, since they're usually printed by the university in the simplest possible manner and sold for little more than the printing cost. And not so long ago it was, in fact, compulsory to have free copies distributed to anyone who turned up for the defense. That's probably not too common any more, but on the other hand it's getting fairly common to have the file for free on the internet, for anyone to print out for themselves.
often fewer than 100-1000 copies total
Seriously? American theological theses are printed in as small, or even smaller, editions than Swedish theological theses? The US has something like 33 times as many inhabitants as Sweden, and supposedly a far larger proportion that's interested in theology. Plus a language that can be read by most of the theology-interested world. And you can't even sell a thousand copies of a thesis? What am I missing here?
What am I missing here?
Could it be students in the USA have to pay for seminary? http://www.sverigeturism.se/smorgasbord/smorgasbord/society/education/higher.html
Never heard of that site, nor the people behind it. By the looks of it some rather old, biased and not totally accurate information.
That said, of course education is free. I fail to see, however, what that has to do with how many copies are printed of a thesis.
of course education is free. I fail to see, however, what that has to do with how many copies are printed of a thesis.
Most theology students in the USA barely have the funds to enroll in school much less have the extra funds to buy academic publications.
Just ask the many students who use Logos software.
Concerning the new Oil Collection, 'They who were foolish having taken their lamps, did not take with themselves oil.' (from the Logos blog's writeup on the newly annouced collection). Also note that half of the participants were wise in the early purchase of the collection. The other half, though having 'the Gold', were unable to 'trade-up'.
Again, what does that have to do with the number of copies? It's hardly students that buy theses. It's people with salaries. Students buy course books and basic reference works, very seldom specialized works like theses.
Futhermore, you seem to live under some assumption that Swedish students are richer than American. From everything I've read and seen, it's the opposite. Most American students seem to be supported by their parents. All Swedish students I've known would have died of shame taking money from their family. At that age you're supposed to take care of yourself in this country, not live off someone else like a child. And it's not like food and lodging and books and computers cost any less just because tuition is free. In fact, lots of American students even seem to be rich enough to have cars. That's virtually unheard of in this country, unless we're talking about an older student with a working spouse. These days most students probably don't even have a driving licence.
Plus we have nothing like your all-costs-covered scholarships. If you manage to get a scholarship here, it's probably no more than a couple of hundred dollars. So, while I don't doubt that there are American students poorer than what you'd generally see here, there's also a huge number of American students who can sail through college without anything like the debts we accumulate here. Swedish students all tend to live under about the same financial conditions: not directly poor, but definitely not rich either. And it all has to be paid off afterwards, one way or another.
Don't know any (outside of these forums).
Again, what does that have to do with the number of copies?
Let me restate my point. Forgetting whether we talk of Americans, Swedes, Japanese or Australians, MOST people who seem to care about spiritual things tend to lack material goods they can trade for the pursuit.
At that age you're supposed to take care of yourself in this country, not live off someone else like a child
I see no difference in living off one's parents or living off the government. Neither is independent.( and, I am afraid your perception of the "rich Americans" is misguided. Many like myself, make less than Sweden's national average.) Three of my children have graduated Bible college without even one dollar from grants, scholarships or my money.
It's hardly students that buy theses. It's people with salaries
Many religious schools in the USA are under-funded ministries and do not compensate their professors well enough for them to afford buying lots of theological journals. Most Bible professors I know teach because it is a calling to them. They could command much higher salaries in secular institutions. They tend to keep up on their reading of peer publications in the library (for free.)
MOST people who seem to care about spiritual things tend to lack material goods they can trade for the pursuit.
Most people I know who seem to care about spiritual things tend to deliberately minimize income and material goods. One thing that seriously concerns myself and makes me deliberately minimize my use of Logos for personal Bible study is the temptation to read about the Bible rather than reading / listening to the Bible itself. Logos is very useful for developing materials to teach the Bible.
Most people I know who seem to care about spiritual things tend to deliberately minimize income and material goods.
Point well made. It sometimes seems that some who truly do not have much have a tendency to rail against those who do as though the mere possession of goods disqualifies someone. It would seem as though such an attitude frequently stems from envy. Indeed, James may have said
"2 My brothers and sisters, do you with your acts of favoritism really believe in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ? 2 For if a person with gold rings and in fine clothes comes into your assembly, and if a poor person in dirty clothes also comes in, 3 and if you take notice of the one wearing the fine clothes and say, "Have a seat here, please," while to the one who is poor you say, "Stand there," or, "Sit at my feet," 4 have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts? 5 Listen, my beloved brothers and sisters. Has not God chosen the poor in the world to be rich in faith and to be heirs of the kingdom that he has promised to those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who oppress you? Is it not they who drag you into court? 7 Is it not they who blaspheme the excellent name that was invoked over you?"
I hardly think, however, that we can put this into a syllogism:
"The rich are oppressive""John is rich""Therefore John is oppressive"
I have known some well-to-do people who have nevertheless been very caring.
FOOD FIGHT !!!!! [:P]
Material wealth & ease tend to choke out spiritual things. I think it is a gift and rare discipline that allows a man to be rich in earthly goods while keeping his eyes on Heavenly things.
Probably one reason God hasn't let me win the lottery yet. (--just joking Dad.)
The material blessings I enjoy are just like extra butter on my popcorn. Not needed but appreciated. And Logos is real butter!
The material blessings I enjoy are just like extra butter on my popcorn.
[Y] - and real butter (both my doctor and I refuse to remove the real stuff from our diets ... cholesterol? unrelated to real butter [:P])
MOST people who seem to care about spiritual things tend to lack material goods they can trade for the pursuit. Most people I know who seem to care about spiritual things tend to deliberately minimize income and material goods
Most people I know who seem to care about spiritual things tend to deliberately minimize income and material goods
Does this mean that those who are financially comfortable automatically have no interest in spiritual things? Isn't it also possible that God has blessed some of them because of their interest in spiritual things? [^o)]
Does this mean that those who are financially comfortable automatically have no interest in spiritual things?
No, that does not logically follow.
Isn't it also possible that God has blessed some of them because of their interest in spiritual things?
With God all things are possible. There is a line of theology that would declare this to be the normal state of affairs. I'd take a broad cross-cultural look at human experience - perhaps I am too fond of the Desert Fathers (and Mothers) who ought to be in Logos. It is a gap in early Christian writings.
Don't you think it's possible to strike a happy medium between prosperity theology and martyrdom?
There is a line of theology that would declare this to be the normal state of affairs.
Thought better of my initial reply about the so-called Prosperity Gospel.
I don't want to engage in a logic battle with you, but that is the impression I received from your previous post.
Admitting our addiction to Logos, and verifying that we have the means to buy the product and the equipment to run it, and are blessed with the time to spend hours discussing it, is proof positive that we are all prosperous ... Prosperous, Indeed ! [:D]
Thought better of my initial reply
I was not intending to get into theological concepts. It was just an observation. Matthew 19:23
I have known of several very wealthy people who still honor God and generously share with others. But I must say they are the exception, not the rule.
I think God designed my physical needs (and lack of material wealth) to remind me of my total dependence upon His grace.
Prosperous, Indeed !
I've certainly got more than just my food & raiment. God is so good to me.
Some definitions:
If the statement is true, the others may or may not be true. This is the basis of many logical errors - what sounds "right" to many people, is not in fact logically right. There is a reason I would love to see some logic / reasoning resources in Logos. There is also a reason that my senior thesis was on logical models.[:)]
I hardly think, however, that we can put this into a syllogism: "The rich are oppressive""John is rich""Therefore John is oppressive" I have known some well-to-do people who have nevertheless been very caring.
I certainly agree. And the syllogism is one I connect to political positions not religious ones.
There is also a reason that my senior thesis was on logical models.
> Higher education teaches Logic.
> All and only those who have a higher education are logical. <- Edited...as per George S.
> Therefore: I am Logical.
> Anyone not afforded higher education, is illogical. (Based on my logic.)[:D]
Romans 1:22 Luke 18:17
There is also a reason that my senior thesis was on logical models. > Higher education teaches Logic. > I partook of higher education. > Therefore: I am Logical. > Anyone not afforded higher education, is illogical. Romans 1:22 Luke 18:17
> I partook of higher education.
> Anyone not afforded higher education, is illogical.
You have commited a logical fallacy here. You can only "prove" by your syllogism that you are yourself logical and not the converse that those who do not have a higher education are illogical. In order to prove the latter you would need to have the major premiss read "Only those who have a higher education are logical" with the minor premiss being "Some do not have a higher education" and the conclusion "Those who do not have a higher education are not logical."
EDIT: Even better would be for your major premiss to read "All and only those who have a higher education are logical."
You can only "prove" by your syllogism that you are yourself logical
Dear George;
If you will consult my supporting text, you will see that my syllogism was tongue in cheek. I do appreciate that you put quotes around the word "prove".
Syllogisms seldom "prove" anything...They just state the person's opinion/theology in the form of an outline. [:D]
Point taken. My post has been edited.
Even better would be for your major premiss to read "All and only those who have a higher education are logical."
Only if the goal is to promote a false premise (spelling corrected by a dumb, illogical, home-schooled, Bible College dropout [:P] )
Either; 1) Not all who have benefit of a higher education are logical, Or 2) Formal education in logic is not the panacea it is held up to be.How else can we explain the world's best educated, most gifted, highest recorded intellectuals arriving at different conclusions?
Whether or not a person has been formally educated in logic does not ensure or deny their ability to assimilate academic literature like Sheffield, Brill, or T&T Clark.
Oh, almost forgot: [:P] [:D] [;)] [Y] [H] All in fun joviality jocularity. [^o)]
Only if the goal is to promote a false premise (spelling corrected by a dumb, illogical, home-schooled, Bible College dropout )
premise n (ˈprɛmɪs) 1 Also premiss logic a statement that is assumed to be true for the purpose of an argument from which a conclusion is drawn ▷ vb (prɪˈmaɪzˈprɛmɪs) 2 when tr, may take a clause as object to state or assume (a proposition) as a premise in an argument, theory, etc [c14: from Old French
Collins English Dictionary.
Check your facts before making a "correction."
Whether or not a person has been formally educated in logic does not ensure or deny their ability to assimilate academic literature like Sheffield, Brill, or T&T Clark. Oh, almost forgot: All in fun joviality jocularity.
Oh, almost forgot: All in fun joviality jocularity.
I'll agree with that, but we were speaking of the syllogism. Perhaps [actually, in fact] the premisses are faulty which would invalidate it, but the logical sequence is the topic. I can never again read / hear the word "jocularity" without thinking of Fr Mulcahey in M*A*S*H when he does his little skit saying "jocularity, jocularity." [:)]
I never considered you may be using King James English since you reside on this side of the pond. I'm always glad to welcome sheep back to our fold of archaic language. [A]Coming:
Only if the goal is to promote a false premise (spelling corrected
PREM´ISS, n. Antecedent proposition. [Rarely used.] Watts.Webster, N. (2006). Noah Webster's first edition of An American dictionary of the English language. Anaheim, CA: Foundation for American Christian Education.========================================corrected by a dumb, illogical, home-schooled, Bible College dropout Stick out tongue )
Coming or going............. I'm right again.
As the song says, "You gotta know when to fold 'em." Matthew [imagine Festus saying that] fold 'em.
I read a lot of BritEnglish
Me too, In every Sunday worship service.
As the song says, "You gotta know when to fold 'em."
Kenny Rogers and I shared a gas station restroom in Springfield, MO when his tour bus stopped for refueling on Christmas.
Matthew [imagine Festus saying that] fold 'em.
That is because Festus did not have Logos Bible Software. I have a distinct advantage over Sheriff Dylan & Festus because I can read: Come Let Us Reason by Norman Geisler in addition to 5000+ other great books.
Good thing Logos does not restrict the sale of scholarly resources to graduate students. It would rival gun control. Even Festus carried a gun. [;)]
Higher education teaches Logic.
My fascination with logic goes back to the 4th or 5th grade when I read the following syllogism:
A donut is better than nothing.
Nothing is better than heaven.
Therefore, a donut is better than heaven.[:D]
Higher education teaches Logic. My fascination with logic goes back to the 4th or 5th grade when I read the following syllogism: A donut is better than nothing. Nothing is better than heaven. Therefore, a donut is better than heaven.
Therefore, a donut is better than heaven.
I'm not sure about doughnuts, but I remember a doughnut shop in a small town near Worchester, Mass where they had a pretty good Persian. Whether that is better than heaven or not is something that will eventually be determined. I'll let you know when I get there. [H]
I find most syllogisms are useful only to the writer of said syllogism. Further, I believe the original spelling has been lost. I would venture a guess that the original spelling was something like "Sillygism". They were an ancient form of comedy, Now used in an attempt to back up flawed logic by highly educated Logicticians.
The money and effort spent in an attempt to educate an Idiot, All too often yields an educated idiot....An educated idiot who's best debating tool is a mystifyingly worded Sillygism. [:D] Live Long And Prosper [Y]
My fascination with logic goes back to the 4th or 5th grade
Proof positive a child can learn to think logically. Robert Welch addressed this "fascination" in The Romance of Education
please note: The subscription offer expired April 15th, 1973.
The money and effort spent in an attempt to educate an Idiot, All too often yields an educated idiot
Good thing God must be worshiped in spirit & in truth. [Z] Most humans will never get educated enough to do it through intellect. [8-|]
I have always wondered if Heaven would best be populated by 2 year olds. Let the angels change the diapers.
I'm a Logos user with a significant collection of Sheffield Press publications. They're invariably near the top of my list of priorities when deciding on prepubs. I assess the worth of individual titles by reading scholarly reviews and evaluating the extent to which they've been received and cited well in the relevant academic literature.
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