Resource Advice

There is an amazing deal out there involving that includes the Word Biblical Commentary. I much prefer to purchase from Logos, but there is no way they can match this. To avoid breaking forum rules, I will not mention where I saw this deal.

Even at this price, it would eat up almost all of the rest of my book budget for this year. My question is this: is it really worth it? I am self-studied, with no formal Bible education and very little knowledge of original languages. I Pastor a small-to-medium sized church that is theologically conservative but I would not call us fundamentalist at all.

I have other good commentaries, so I am wondering if this would add to my study. For some of you, it is a no-brainer, but for me it is a huge investment; my budget would pretty much be done and I have more than half the year to go.

So what do you think?

Jerry

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Comments

TCBlack

Jerry,

I have WBC and next to NIC it is among my most used commentaries. It is however, technical in nature meaning that it relies upon the original languages to a fair extent.

Perhaps if you're working on a current pericope I can post a bit of the content so you can get a feel for it?

What are you working on right now?

Jerry Bush

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249922#Comment_249922

I'm doing a series on the four good kings of Judah (Asa, Jehoshaphat, Hezekiah, and Josiah). The one for this Sunday is Asa, so 1 Kings 15.9-24 will be my main source.

Thanks for the advice and time!

Jerry

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249924#Comment_249924

I've turned off page numbering but the passage spans pp188-191.....

[quote]

The
Reign of Asa (15:9-24)

Bibliography

Barrick,
W. B.
“On the ‘Removal of the “High-Places” ’ in 1–2 Kings.”
Bib
55 (1974) 257–59. Malamat,
A.
The Aramaeans in
Aram Naharaim and the Rise of their States
(Heb). Diss. Hebrew University, 1952. Melin,
G.
“Die
Stellung der G^ebira
im Staate Juda (1 K 15:13).”
TZ
10 (1954) 161–75. Unger,
M. F.
Israel and the
Aramaeans of Damascus.
London: J. Clarke & Co., 1957.

Translation

⁹Now
in the twentieth^a
year of Jeroboam king of Israel ^bAsa
king of Judah began to reign,^b
¹⁰and for
forty-one years he reigned in Jerusalem. And the name of his mother
was Maacah^a
daughter of Abishalom. ¹¹And
Asa performed what was right in the eyes of Yahweh, like David his
father. ¹²And
he dismissed the ^acult
prostitutes^a
from the land, and removed all the idols which his fathers,^b
¹³even
Maacah his mother, had made, so that he deposed her from the office
of queen mother. She had made a detestable cult object for Asherah,
so that Asa had to cut down her cult object and burn it in ¹⁴the
wadi Kidron. But they^a
did not remove the country shrines; nevertheless, Asa’s own heart
was continually loyal toward Yahweh.

¹⁵And
^ahe
brought^a
the sacral booty^b
of his father, with the sacral booty ^cof
his own,^c
into the temple of Yahweh, silver and gold and artifacts.

¹⁶And
hostility existed between Asa and Baasha^a
throughout all their days.

¹⁷Now
Baasha king of Israel came up against Judah. And he constructed Ramah
^aso as to
prevent anyone wishing to depart from or enter in^a
to Asa king of Judah. ¹⁸Then
Asa took^a
the silver and the gold that ^bwere
still left^b
in the treasure-rooms ^cof
Yahweh’s temple ^dand
in^d the
treasure-rooms^c
of ^ethe
king’s^e
house, and entrusted them into the hand^f
of his servants. And King Asa sent them to Ben-Hadad, the son of
Tabrimmon, son of Hezion, the king of Syria who was dwelling in
Damascus, with the following message: ^19a“There
is^a a
treaty between me ^band
you,^b
between^c my
father and your father. Behold, I have sent you a gift of silver and
gold; come, break your treaty with Baasha king of Israel so that he
will withdraw from me.” ²⁰And
Ben-Hadad hearkened to King Asa, dispatching whatever officers of
^athe armed
forces^a
were available to him against the cities of Israel. And he^b
attacked lyyon, Dan, and Abel-beth-maacah;^c
also all of Kinneroth ^d
adjoining the entire territory of Naphtali. ²¹So
when Baasha heard of it, he left off building Ramah, and ^astayed
in^a Tirzah.
²²Then King
Asa made a proclamation to entire Judah, leaving nobody free, that
they should carry away the stones of Ramah, with its timbers, with
which Baasha had been building. And ^aKing
Asa^a built
Geba of Benjamin and Mizpah with them.^b
²³Now the
remainder of^a
Asa’s acts, including all his works of greatness^b
which he did ^cand
the cities that he built,^c
are these not written in the Book ^dof
the Chronicles of the Judahite Kings?^d
However, at the time of his old age^e
he suffered with his feet. ²⁴And
Asa slept ^awith
his fathers^a
and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father. And
Jehoshaphat his son reigned in his place.

Notes

9.a.
MT. G^BL
“twenty-fourth”; cf. v 8
LXX

9.b-b. MT. G^BL “Asa became king over
Judah.”

10.a. MT. G^BL
“Hannah”; cf. v 13.

12.a-a. MT (הקדשים,
translated σύνδεσμος
in 14:24).
Here G^B
renders τελετὰς
“priests,” while G^L
renders στήλας
= Heb מַצֵבוֹת
“standing stones.”
Since the problem of translation cannot have been linguistic, these
variations can only be ideological and apologetic.

12.b. Chr inserts a long passage.

14.a. MT. G^BL, Syr., Vg have “he,” making
Asa the antecedent.

15.a-a. MT, G^B. G^L has
paraphrastic “Asa brought into Yahweh’s temple.”

15.b. MT (קדשי
“holy things”; cf.
7:51).
Not understanding the word, the Gr. translators offer κίονας
“pillars,” which does not appear to have a regular Heb
equivalent.

15.c-c. K, G, Syr., Tg., Chr Q makes the pious correction, “of
Yahweh’s temple.”

16.a. MT, G^L
G^B
adds explicative “king of Israel”; cf. v 17.

17.a-a. MT (לבלתי
תת יעא וכא “to
prevent departing from or entering in.” G^BLτοῦ
μὴ εἶναι = לבּלתי
היות “so it is not.”

18.a. G^BL. MT adds pleonastic “all.”

18.b-b. MT. G^BL “was found” (sing.).

18.c-c. MT, G^L. G^B omits
(homoioteleuton).

18.d-d. G^L, Syr. MT “and the”; G^B
corr.

18.e-e. mss, Q K corr.

18.f. MT. G^BL pl..

19.a-a. MT, noun-clause. The Gr. translators are puzzled
by this unusual construction: G^B offers διαθήκη
for Heb בְּוִית
“covenant,” “treaty,” preceded by
the impv. of διατιθημι “arrange,”
as though the two were from the same root, but there is no reason to
suppose that the Heb Vorlage had a verb. G^LΔιαθήκη
ἔστω “let there be a treaty” might be a legitimate
paraphrase except for the tact that a subjunctive is not suitable
when referring to something that occurred in the past—the
foretathers’ treaty.

19.b-b. MT, G^L. G^B omits (haplography?).

19.c. MT. G^BL “and between” is syndetic,
giving better Gr. style.

20.a-a. MT (pl.). G^BL have sing. with pl. gen
and the possessive pronoun.

20.b. MT, Par (sing., referring to Ben-hadad). Chr, G
pl., choosing “armed forces” as the subject.

20.c. MT. G^BL corr; cf. Chr

20.d. MT. G^BL corr. Chr מסכנות
“storage places”; Par reads Heb ככרות
“surroundings.”

21.a-a. MT. G^BL “returned to.” MT uses root ישׁב
“dwell,” G reads root שׁוּב
“return.” MT is lectio difficilior, but makes good
sense when understood with reference to Baasha’s behavior
subsequent to the Syrian invasion.

22.a-a. MT, G^B. G^L “Asa”; Chr omits. A
mention of Asa’s regal office is to be expected here.

22.b. Chr inserts a long passage.

23.a. G^BL. MT “of all” is not only
pleonastuc, but clearly enters the text from the two occurrences of
וכל
“and all” in the immediate sequel.

23.b. G^BL. MT adds “and all” (see above).

23.c-c. MT. G^L “and cities …”; G^B
omits (haplography?).

23.d-d. Chr “of the kings of Judah and Israel.”

23.e. MT and G^B. G^L has
interpretive gloss “Asa did what was evil.”

24.a-a. MT, G^L. G^B omits
(haplography).

Form/Structure/Setting

[Dtr: The reign of Asa

1. Introductory summary, vv 9–10

2. Cult reforms and theological
assessment, vv 11–14]

Memorandum from the temple
archives, v 15

Extract from the Book of the
Chronicles of the Judahite Kings 16

Narrative of Asa’s alliance with Ben-Hadad

1. The proposal

a. Baasha’s threat: a fort at
Ramah, v 17

b. Asa’s embassage to Damascus

(1). The gift, v 18

(2). Bribery to betrayal, v 19

2. The compliance

a. Preparations for Syrian
aggression, v 20a

b. The campaign, v 20b

3. The result: favorable conditions for Asa

a. Baasha withdraws, v 21

b. Asa builds counterfortresses, v 22

[Dtr: Closing summary for Asa, vv
23–24]

The account of Asa’s reign begins with an unusually
expansive summary from Dtr, picking up from the archives a detail of
how idolatry affected the king’s own household. Following brief
extracts from the temple archives and the Judahite chronicle, Dtr
inserts a detailed political narrative from Asa’s court, telling of
his treaty with Syria and of his border defenses. At the conclusion,
the Asa account receives a somewhat expanded closing summary in the
usual Dtr format.

Comment

9–15
Jeroboam was still king in Israel when Asa began to reign, but it
would be with Baasha, the leader of a new dynasty, that Asa would
have serious trouble. According to our chronology, Asa appointed
Jehoshaphat to serve as coregent with him during his final three
years (his foot trouble reported in v 23
may have been the cause of this). On the identity of his “mother,”
see above on v 2.
Dtr finds him to be the first Judahite king to deserve high praise:
he did “what was right in the eyes of Yahweh, like David his
father” (11),
and his “heart was continually loyal toward Yahweh” (14).
In particular, he exiled the cult prostitutes, הקים,
a masc. pl., but functioning as common gender to include both sexes.
He also “removed” (i.e., destroyed) all the idols (הגללים,
vocalized for the word “filth,” which synagogue-readers were
supposed to pronounce) made by his fathers, i.e., “ancestors,”
meaning primarily Solomon. He had to depose Maacah (his grandmother),
from being גביוה
because
she had installed a cult object, probably a wooden plaque, of Asherah
(see the pl. in 14:23),
Canaanite goddess of fertility (the Earth Mother). He did not
suppress the country-shrines, but Dtr is in no mood to blame him for
that. The temple extract in v 15
mentions without comment that Asa also deposited sacral booty in the
temple treasury (cf. 7:51b),
something which Abijam had evidently neglected.

16–22
A summary statement from the Book of the Chronicles of the Judahite
Kings introduces the political narrative of vv 16–22.
Baasha “came up,” i.e., attacked Judah, apparently without
encountering effective resistance. Most of Benjamin’s ancestral
territory had been under Jerusalem’s control (See 12:21),
but now Baasha fortified Ramah (Samuel’s residence, 1
Sam 7:17), about three miles
south of the traditional border. As the narrator sees it, this was to
prevent northerners from having contact with Asa (that the title,
“King Asa,” predominates in these verses suggests that the writer
is a loyal partisan of this king), though Baasha’s true purpose may
have been to defend against Judahite aggression. Shishak had pretty
well cleaned out the temple’s and the palace’s treasuries
(14:26),
but Asa sent what was left to bribe Ben-Hadad to attack Baasha. Since
this Syrian king’s father and grandfather are mentioned, his
relationship to the Rezon of 11:23–25
is problematical. Upon arriving in Damascus, Asa’s emissaries
(“servants”) present a message which (1) calls attention to a
treaty between Asa’s and Ben-Hadad’s respective “fathers”
(otherwise unmentioned; there is no solid basis for Noth’s proposal
[339] to read the noun-clause as a wish); (2) calls attention to the
gift; and (3) requests Ben-Hadad to break his treaty with Baasha
(also unmentioned elsewhere).

V
20
reads as if the bulk of Ben-Hadad’s army may have been occupied
elsewhere, but he sent the forces that were available into a raid of
three towns in the upper Jordan valley, together with the fertile
plain adjacent to the Sea of Galilee and the Galilean uplands as far
inland as the border of Naphtali. As our narrator tells it, Baasha
left off building Ramah when he heard of this raid and returned to
Tirzah, but he is probably ignorant of what probably did happen,
viz., that Baasha sent a strong force to drive BenHadad away. In any
case, Asa’s design was met. Since there were no more Israelite
soldiers to defend Ramah, Asa was able to effectuate a universal
conscription for taking Ramah down and using its timbers to build his
own forts at Geba and Mizpah.

23-24
In Asa’s closing summary, Dtr is moved to make special mention of
unnamed “works of greatness” and certain cities that were built
(or rebuilt). Asa did become old; subsisting on a rich diet, he
probably contracted gout, “the ailment of kings.” With his
approving attitude toward Asa, Dtr is not inclined to judge this
illness as some kind of punishment sent from Yahweh.

Mark Smith

Jerry, I am aware of the offer and doubt it will ever get better. This offer is for a resource that Logos does not sell so I doubt they can match it. Maybe they'll match for just the WBC part but there is more than that in the offer being made. The publisher may be dropping the price on this combined product and Logos will not be able to match the price for the WBC alone as strange as that is.

One advantage to the WBC is that it covers a good deal of the Bible. Like any series there are highs and lows, and I find the format of the series aggravating to use. However for the money it would be next to impossible to match what you get here for what you are being asked to pay.

I prefer the NIC volumes in most cases to the WBC. But they are a bunch more money and don't cover as much of the Bible at this point. I use the WBC regularly, but rarely would choose it as the top commentary I have on a book of the Bible. I am glad to have it and it would be on my list to buy if I didn't own it.

The offer may come around again, but it will never be cheaper IMO.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249927#Comment_249927

One other suggestion. If you haven't done so already, mosey on over to http://www.bestcommentaries.com/ and browse some books of the Bible for where the WBC volume ranks among the rated commentaries. I note that in 1 Kings the WBC volume is ranked seventh among the 1 Kings commentaries. The 2 Kings WBC volume is ranked 4th. Two commentaries available in Logos format rank above both: the NAC and the TOTC. The top ranked commentary (NIBCOT) is not available in Logos format (the NT volumes in the series are, however).

I am preaching through Nehemiah and my top three commentaries in Logos format are TOTC, NICOT, and WBC. These happen to be the top three on the Best Commentaries site also.

I am doing some work in Colossians and the top rated commentary there is the WBC volume. I concur with that rating. I also have the rest of the top four in Logos format.

Alan Charles Gielczyk

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249930#Comment_249930

Don't discount the fact that you get another entire commentary set in that deal that is over $100 from Logos, plus over 100 other volumes. I would jump at this deal if I did not already have the Word series and most of the other volumes.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249922#Comment_249922

OK, this made me curious. For a long time I thought my googling skills were failing me, but finally I found something. Thomas, are we talking roughly the same deal as was posted on your blog-forum in March? Or are we talking about something else?

Praiser

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249962#Comment_249962

OK, this made me curious. For a long time I thought my googling skills were failing me, but finally I found something. Thomas, are we talking roughly the same deal as was posted on your blog-forum in March? Or are we talking about something else?

Use the link there and see the price.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249966#Comment_249966

Use the link there and see the price.

Ah! Didn't try that, since it was "too old". That's $9 less than what I found.

Great deal if you want it all, or at least most of it. Unfortunately I only want Word and the New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, and I'm not sure I can justify the cost at this time. How long does it last?

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249971#Comment_249971

Great deal if you want it all, or at least most of it. Unfortunately I only want Word and the New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, and I'm not sure I can justify the cost at this time.

It's actually a great deal even if you only want the WBC, since that price is cheaper than you are going to find the WBC by itself anywhere.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249973#Comment_249973

Does it work in Logos 4? On Mac? I know the "Pro's" are the price, are there any "con's"?

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249973#Comment_249973

It's actually a great deal even if you only want the WBC

It's a good deal if you only want the WBC. It's a great deal if you want a lot of it.

that price is cheaper than you are going to find the WBC by itself anywhere

Right now, yes. But this is at least the 6th sale I've seen on the WBC since September, so I doubt it's going to be the last. I'm still thinking of it though, which is why I'd like to know when it ends.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249979#Comment_249979

Does it work in Logos 4? On Mac?

Sure does.

are there any "con's"?

The price for some. But what it is going for now is as good as it gets.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249984#Comment_249984

I assume that I would get a CD Rom for these resources. A con would be the lack of being able to re-download the files later if I loose the disc, correct?

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249988#Comment_249988

I assume that I would get a CD Rom for these resources. A con would be the lack of being able to re-download the files later if I loose the disc, correct?

You would get a CDRom and an activation code or product key, but you can can actually download the resources initially and re-download them later. The con is the extra work getting the licenses in Logos4. See the section entitled "Resources purchased through other retailers" on this page:

http://wiki.logos.com/Adding_new_resources_to_Logos_4

Once you've got the licenses in Logos4, you don't need to keep track of any media. That's one of the benefits of Logos 4.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249991#Comment_249991

The con would also be the shipping cost. And for someone outside of the US the risk of having to pay VAT.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249993#Comment_249993

sorry for asking so many questions...

so the product is identical to what i would get with Logos? full functionality? if typos are fixed in the future, they get updated as well?

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249993#Comment_249993

I guess another con would be that you probably don't get any 30 days money back guarantee, like Logos gives.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249996#Comment_249996

if typos are fixed in the future, they get updated as well?

Yes.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249996#Comment_249996

so the product is identical to what i would get with Logos? full functionality? if typos are fixed in the future, they get updated as well?

Yes.

Timothy Ha

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249993#Comment_249993

The con would also be the shipping cost. And for someone outside of the US the risk of having to pay VAT.

If you specify in your order that you only need the serial number, they will send you only the serial number.

Worked for me when I purchased Luther's Collection of Works.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/250020#Comment_250020

If you specify in your order that you only need the serial number, they will send you only the serial number.

That's great to know. Did they send it by snail mail, or did they agree to e-mail it to you?

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/249991#Comment_249991

Todd -

The wiki page you directed me to says that there is two ways for me to register the product. Since Logos does not sell this package, will that cause a problem? Also, the second way mentioned is to use Logos 3. It is my understanding that Logos 3 is Windows only. Is there an alternate program for Mac? I noticed on the forum pages a program called Logos 1 for Mac. Is this the equivalent to Logos 3? Can I download Logos 1 for Mac?

Thanks for all your help.

Justin

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/250067#Comment_250067

Todd -

The wiki page you directed me to says that there is two ways for me to register the product. Since Logos does not sell this package, will that cause a problem? Also, the second way mentioned is to use Logos 3. It is my understanding that Logos 3 is Windows only. Is there an alternate program for Mac? I noticed on the forum pages a program called Logos 1 for Mac. Is this the equivalent to Logos 3? Can I download Logos 1 for Mac?

Thanks for all your help.

Justin

Calling customer service to register 3rd party products is not a problem. Since you have a Mac, calling CS is really your only option (unless you want to install a Windows emulator to run Logos 3).

Jerry Bush

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/250076#Comment_250076

Hey everyone - thanks for the advice, and especially to Thomas for posting the excerpt.

It is not too technical for me, but if I buy it now, I will have about $60 left for the rest of the year in my book budget. So I am going to have to pass.

I reiterate the comments about calling in a serial number. I have done it numerous times and it is very easy. I suppose if you had L3 still installed, that would be fine, but for Mac users and those of us that have removed L3, I assure you that calling Logos customer service is very painless. I have seen the download start before the call with them is over.

Thanks again everyone, but finances dictate a no-purchase this time.

Jerry

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/250205#Comment_250205

Thanks again everyone, but finances dictate a no-purchase this time.

I understand Jerry, I'm watching the IVP OT dictionaries whizz past me for the same reasons - I've already sucked up my entire book budget for the year (It shrank this year out of necessity). The Talmud - coming out today (?!) will just about finish the task.

Jerry Bush

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/250217#Comment_250217

Those are really great resources if you have the bucks. I got them maybe a couple of years ago.

Just about anything IVP puts out seems to be worth it to me.

Jerry

Mike Childs

Yes, indeed. It is definately worth it. WBC does require a bit of working with Greek text, but it is one of the best resources that I have. The Preacher's Commentary is a great balance because it is more homoletical and not so heavy on the technical side.

This offer is a great opportunity. I have both commentaries and most of the other books, so I can't benefit. But I am happy for those who do benefit.

Michael Anda

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/250398#Comment_250398

What is this collection being discussed here called?

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/250404#Comment_250404

What is this collection being discussed here called?

eBible Pastor Edition