Curious PC user

How would you compare the virtues of L4Mac to L4 for PC?

Are there any of you who use both platforms? for those of you do, why? which do you like best?

Do you Mac users think it might be time for any of us PC users ( those of us who flirt with the idea of getting a Mac) to make the leap - if our main reason would be to use it with L4 ?

2nd Question: If going to a Mac, what minimum system would you suggest - for a laptop?

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JT (alabama24)

Ron -

I think it would be great if ALL Logos users switched to Mac. Logos would be able to make Logos, well, more Mac like.

I used to subscribe to the philosophy that if 90% of all software is developed for windows, I needed to be on a PC. Thankfully, like the prodigal son, I "came to" and realized that if I could get equivalent or better software on the Mac, there was no reason to suffer any longer. At the time, I was not using Bible software for serious study. Thankfully Logos has been making good strides with their Mac line.

If your only reason for switching is for Logos, you might be better to stay with your PC since not all features are available yet on the Mac side. However, if you are switching for other reasons, Logos works well on a Mac.

I have a newer MacBook Pro (core 2 duo) with 4 GB of Ram. I am hoping to add 4GB to make 8.

Justin

Randall Cue

Ron,

I have Logos 4 on both platforms. I am pleased with both. On the Mac side, Logos runs much faster for me than on Windows. I'm sure that has to do with my machines. My Windows machine is an HP laptop with Windows Vista premium home 64 bit edition. The laptop has 4 gigs of ram and an athelon dual core processor. My mac is an imac with 4 gigs of ram and a 3.2 GHz Intel Core i3 processor.

Soli Deo Gloria,

Randy

Rev Chris

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/250594#Comment_250594

If your only reason for switching is for Logos, you might be better to stay with your PC since not all features are available yet on the Mac side.

I concur, but for other reasons as well. Macs are more expensive and there are still quite a few programs that are Windows only.

That being said, I made the switch to a macbook from being a longtime Windows user about a year and a half ago. I'm still quite pleased with my switch and have no regrets. In my office I have a Windows desktop, but I tend to use my Macbook for most work and let the desktop just sit there. I find I can do more things quicker with the mac. A lot of that has to do with the Expose and Spaces functions which make having multiple programs open at once much more user friendly. (With the Mac Spaces program I basically have 12 desktops going at one time and can switch between them with the flick of the mouse or the strike of a key). When I first switched I installed Windows on my Mac through VMWare Fusion since I was afraid of all the Windows-only programs that I wouldn't be able to use anymore. Pretty soon after I found the only program I was running through Windows was e-sword ... and that was until I bought Logos 4 last Fall. In my experience and for my use, Macs are more powerful, more effecient, easier to use, and crash far less often. But, as I said, they also cost quite a bit more.

So, if L4 is your only reason - then no, stay with Windows. You already have a Windows computer and it's not worth spending $1000 or more just to say you have L4Mac. But if you're trying to decide whether to switch to Mac and one of your decisions is how Logos will run on it, then my opinion is make the switch - L4Mac won't cause you to regret your decision.

Martin Folley

I have a Macbook on which I use a virtual machine to run Windows 7. I regularly use both on the same machine (but not at the same time, I am not sure what the sync implications of this are).

If all I am spending time on devotions and reading, I will use the mac version since it is quicker to load than starting the VM windows and then starting L4.

If I am doing research, because I use logos notes, I use the PC. This is mainly because the Mac notes are so poor, esp. when typing a scripture reference, which the mac version cannot yet turn into a hyperlink.

I am also finding Steve Clark's layout tools to be rather useful.

Once Windows and L4 has loaded, I find little difference in operational speed between the mac version and the windows version under the VM emulator.

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/250600#Comment_250600

I have to say that the interface on the Mac is nicer and that working on a Mac is significantly less difficult. However Logos is a PC native product and it runs better for much less money. I'm running it now on an older XP machine w 2GB of RAM and it is pretty remarkable even on that. My take is that you'd now want at least 6-8GB of RAM with either a PC/MAC a good video card of 1GB or more and at least 7200RPM on a hard drive. An SSD would rock!

If I had to start again, I'd probably buy a PC for Logos. You can always get a custom PC with the right hardware. Macs rarely come with the hardware you want. However I know too much and Macs still seem to be less problematic. This is one area where my heart is divided.

Patrick S.

How would you compare the virtues of L4Mac to L4 for PC?

Are there any of you who use both platforms? for those of you do, why? which do you like best?

Do you Mac users think it might be time for any of us PC users ( those of us who flirt with the idea of getting a Mac) to make the leap - if our main reason would be to use it with L4 ?

2nd Question: If going to a Mac, what minimum system would you suggest - for a laptop?

You should not solely consider Logos as the reason for switching from Windows to Mac.

You should switch to the Mac because it is a vastly superior platform to Windows - vastly. Both in the OS (and soon Lion will be released so Microsoft will have to go on the copying round again) and the hardware which is a) superior to 99.9% of typical hardware available running Windows and b) integrated with the OS by the company making the product. Net result = the total experience is more than the sum of the individual parts.

As to people who say that Macs are "too expensive" (BTW they're not if you look at total cost of ownership and resale value), I would offer this quote from Armageddon (the idea of which they stole from John Glenn)

[quote] "You know we're sitting on four million pounds of fuel, one nuclear weapon and a thing that has 270,000 moving parts built by the lowest bidder. Makes you feel good, doesn't it?"

Every Windows hardware manufacturer is trying to cut corners as much as possible because they know there are thousands of other companies who will shaft him on price. And they have as much loyalty to Microsoft as... [insert your own comment here]. Yes, you can find a 'real cheep Windows machine', and I'll wave to you from my Mac as your Windows 'rocket' crashes and burns with you in it [:)]

So you decide to get a Mac notebook - that will mean a MacBook Pro. Any of the current crop, most of which except the entry level 13" have Intel i7 processors, are good, they all have 4 GB RAM, more would be better for Logos 4. It depends on what screen size you want. Go and look at the machines.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/250688#Comment_250688

Observation: currently Apple has couple models whose hardware value is very competitive: iPad's and iMac's (especially 27", previous generation 2.93 GHz Quad Core i7 is now $ 1,569 => http://store.apple.com/us/product/G0JP0LL/A ) However, Apple has returned to hardware premium pricing heritage for MacBook Pro laptops, currently can buy couple Dell Outlet XPS 17" laptops

for less than one refurbished current model MacBook Pro 17" at $ 2,119 => http://store.apple.com/us/product/G0M32LL/A ). Note: Dell's XPS 17" has option for 2nd drive (potentially SSD for Logos 4) plus 4 memory slots (16 GB Ram).

MicroCenter has 13" MacBook Pro's for $ 999 (reflects $ 200 instant savings).

New MacBook Pro and iMac models have Thunderbolt ports, but noticing lack of Thunderbolt external drives and other peripherals.

Heretic apology: considering Feature Parity discrepancy between Mac and PC along with 17" laptop price differential, currently choosing refurbished Dell XPS 17" laptop over MacBook Pro for portable Logos 4 (with day lost once in a while dealing with Windows issues). Hoping Apple refreshes Mac Mini with 2nd Generation i5 or i7 (potential portable headless use via crossover cable).

On desktop, 27' iMac is awesome for Logos 4 use. Looking forward to Mac OS X Lion since one feature improvement is remote screen sharing with different display output. Hence, one iMac could have couple Logos 4 Mac users (with different libraries) running at same time.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Stephen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/250697#Comment_250697

A lot of people look at the specs posted on websites when comparing mac's to PC. It's not just processor/RAM/HD that you have to consider. If you have a 1GB video card that's great but what's the quality of the display. What the Bus through put on the mother board. There are a lot of variables that go into a computer. Quoting RAm/Processor/HD are all marketing tricks. Just like everyone saying 4G now when none of them really have 4G, it's just 3G+.

You have to consider Total Cost of Ownership. I went out and tried to spec a 17" Dell as close as I could to the Mac Book Pro I was looking at and the price varied by $200 dollars either less or more depending on several small factors. When you spec a PC to the same parts as a Mac (not just processor/RAM/HD) they actually pretty close on in price with the same quality of parts. Yes you can buy a PC laptop for a lot less but you generally get a lot less.

In 3 months I'll have had my 17" MBP for 3 years and it's still running like a champ. I would like to get a new core i7 with the thunderbolt port but can't justify it if my current Mac is still running so well. I can see myself using this MBP for at least another year of 2 so I will have been using it 4-5 years. I also do a lot of graphic intensive work with editing photographs and have no issues. I know there are no thunderbolt peripherals right now but you will start seeing them by this summer and I'm sure there will be a whole lot by next year. Especially with the speeds of thunderbolt, USB 3 will seem obsolete and be extremely slow compared to thunderbolt.

HP just released their new computers and stuck with USB 3, they said because there aren't any thunderbolt peripherals available yet. Maybe it's because they want you to buy a new PC in a year and a half and then they'll have thunderbolt. I can get a PC laptop for half of what I pay for a Mac but I'll be replacing it twice as often so do you really save any money?

When purchasing a computer (Mac or PC) don't look at right now but look at what your needs will be 2 years from now. Technology changes so fast that you need to try and and get a quality computer that will last for a while. While you can get a netbook for a couple of hundred dollars will it be any good next year? Do you want to be always upgrading to the next new thing? I could get new PC laptops but then I always have to set them up and move all my files. When I do eventually get a new Mac Time machine will make it simple. I just plug in the external drive and when booting up the new Mac for the first time I just tell it to use the Time Machine backup and it restores all my files/setting. I don't have to do anything except wait for it to finish and then log in.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/250777#Comment_250777

When I do eventually get a new Mac Time machine will make it simple. I just plug in the external drive and when booting up the new Mac for the first time I just tell it to use the Time Machine backup and it restores all my files/setting. I don't have to do anything except wait for it to finish and then log in.

Time Machine restore (or copying from previous Mac via Target mode) can also include applications. For couple goofy Mac issues, chose to back up partition, do a clean Mac OS X install (with software updates), then use migration assistant to copy stuff from backup, which fixed goofiness.

Thankful can boot Mac from external disk partition so have stable Logos 4.2b on internal drive and Logos 4.3 Beta 5 on external drive.

Are there any of you who use both platforms? for those of you do, why? which do you like best?

Thankful Logos 4 experience is similar on Mac and PC; easy to switch platforms. Looking forward to Logos 4 improvements on both platforms, including many Feature Parity improvements on Logos 4 Mac. Personally like Logos 4 Mac better (especially on 27" iMac).

Do you Mac users think it might be time for any of us PC users ( those of us who flirt with the idea of getting a Mac) to make the leap - if our main reason would be to use it with L4 ?

Wiki page Logos 4 Mac => Need Logos 4 PC feature? section includes Windows virtualization tips and native boot option.

Bob Pritchett's post What Logos development is doing included:

Windows has more users than Mac, but Mac is behind and needs improvement, and it is gaining market share on the way to 50%. We consider it equally important to Windows, and already are at the point where some new work is Mac first, then ported to Windows.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/250777#Comment_250777

In 3 months I'll have had my 17" MBP for 3 years and it's still running like a champ. I would like to get a new core i7 with the thunderbolt port but can't justify it if my current Mac is still running so well.

The Smiling One frequently causes me to lust for a 27" i7 iMac, and my current desktop model is over 4 years old. Then, I thought, "Performance is still very good on all apps, including L4 Mac. How can I justify a new Mac?"

Our company is beginning to need replacements for a few iMacs. However, they are each one more than 6 years old and have been operating in a dirty environment all that time.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/250912#Comment_250912

is over 4 years old. Then, I thought, "Performance is still very good on all apps, including L4 Mac. How can I justify a new Mac?"

I run L4 on an older HP business laptop. I, too, have coveted a Mac... [C] Then, I thought,

"Performance is still very good on all apps, including L4 Mac. How can I justify a new Mac?"

One factor that keeps me on the PC side for now is my finite amount of resources. If I had the "extra" cash to buy a new Mac, I'd spend it on more Logos resources instead. The deals in Community Pricing are incredible and the Pre-Pubs that keep shipping are too interesting to pass up. So as long as Logos keeps up the current plan I will stick with one of the 2 dozen PCs in my home and keep buying resources.

If anyone would donate a Mac to help me cross the river, I won't refuse it. [:D]

Patrick S.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/250927#Comment_250927

If anyone would donate a Mac to help me cross the river, I won't refuse it.

Oh the temptation [H]

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/250927#Comment_250927

If anyone would donate a Mac to help me cross the river, I won't refuse it.

Does it need to work? I have a 2004 21" iMac with a bad logic board and power supply under my desk. [8-|] BTW, I think the hard drive has also failed.