OK, you cheap-skates, fork over some money
This prepub is going nowhere and doing it very slowly. It is really something which we should have in Logos. I know that it's expensive, but some of you are willing to turn over perfectly good money for resources which don't have the value this has so step up to the plate.
http://www.logos.com/product/4346/patrologia-cursus-completus-series-graeca-part-1
Let's get this over the top !
george
gfsomsel
יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
Comments
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looks really interesting ... and really important. unfortunately I don't speak Latin and probably won't for a long time. So, I'll have to pass on this one. Best of luck to you!
Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer. Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App
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Rev Chris said:
unfortunately I don't speak Latin and probably won't for a long time.
That's why you might want to take a second look to the title: "Series Graeca" ... [:P] Most of it is in Greek, actually. Only some explanations etc. are written in Latin.
"Mach's wie Gott - werde Mensch!" | theolobias.de
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I'd love to have it, and theoretically I'm in, but at that price I'm kind of expecting to have to cancel at some point. My level of Greek isn't such that I can really justify the cost. I really wish they moved it to CP.
Btw, I don't think that title is the most effective one imaginable in order to gain support. [;)]
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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I'm working on my Greek in my spare time (I didn't take it in seminary), but I'm no where near reading comprehension level yet! Don't try to sell me on the Learn Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos either - $500 just to then buy the $400 Series Graeca is a bit out of my price range!
Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer. Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App
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fgh said:
Btw, I don't think that title is the most effective one imaginable in order to gain support.
It was intended to be a bit provocative. Too many buy cheap resources such as Ironside and G. Campbell Morgan simply to increase their book count cheaply without considering that these will be of little or no use if they truly want to engage in biblical studies. I won't even have such resources on my computer. Why would I want 6 different commentaries which all tell me the same thing which is the standard old line which is based on a systematics view? They should read some resources that will set forth the view of the early Church and works which will challenge the standard received view.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
Too many buy cheap resources such as Ironside and G. Campbell Morgan simply to increase their book count cheaply without considering that these will be of little or no use if they truly want to engage in biblical studies. I won't even have such resources on my computer. Why would I want 6 different commentaries which all tell me the same thing which is the standard old line which is based on a systematics view? They should read some resources that will set forth the view of the early Church and works which will challenge the standard received view.
I don't necessarily disagree with the analysis, I just doubt that insulting people is the best way of persuading them to comply with your wishes.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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George, reading the post title was the first laugh I have had today so thanks! Should have known it was you. :-) Unfortunately, I can't help with your campaign since I am a humanitarian volunteer starving on a stipend right now! I just wandered onto the forum to see what everyone has been up to...
Peace,
Kaye
"But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry." 2 Timothy 4:5 (NASB)
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Kaye Anderson said:
George, reading the post title was the first laugh I have had today so thanks! Should have known it was you. :-) Unfortunately, I can't help with your campaign since I am a humanitarian volunteer starving on a stipend right now! I just wandered onto the forum to see what everyone has been up to...
Now that's the spirit. Sorry you can't help, but best wishes on whatever it is you're doing.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I was in on this from the very beginning, got out after it sat on the shelf collecting dust, but got back in. I figured if I have waited a long time for some others titles to be produced, I can wait for this one.
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I've ordered and cancelled this a few times. Normally, I'm a fan of Greek texts. But this offering at almost $400 is less than 10 per cent of the entire work. For more than $4000 for the entire set, I'll just subscribe to TLG and buy the entirety of Greek language literature.
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BradN said:
I've ordered and cancelled this a few times. Normally, I'm a fan of Greek texts. But this offering at almost $400 is less than 10 per cent of the entire work. For more than $4000 for the entire set, I'll just subscribe to TLG and buy the entirety of Greek language literature.
You don't buy it with TLG -- you pay a subscription fee -- and it doesn't integrate with Logos.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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If everyone who wants it, but finds it too expensive, e-mails Logos asking for it to be moved to CP, maybe they'll cave in? (Surely it's worth a try?)
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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I'm more than willing to go in on a Community Pricing project. But $399 for an un-morph tagged 1/10 of the whole makes no sense to me. If you've lost me (B.A. and M.A. in classical languages; M.A. student in theology), I'm afraid you've lost. Let's try to get that Biblical Languages Referance Grammars and Introductions collection ( http://www.logos.com/product/4679/biblical-languages-reference-grammars-and-introductions) going! It's a lot closer to production.
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BradN said:
I'm more than willing to go in on a Community Pricing project. But $399 for an un-morph tagged 1/10 of the whole makes no sense to me. If you've lost me (B.A. and M.A. in classical languages; M.A. student in theology), I'm afraid you've lost. Let's try to get that Biblical Languages Referance Grammars and Introductions collection ( http://www.logos.com/product/4679/biblical-languages-reference-grammars-and-introductions) going! It's a lot closer to production.
I don't understand why even that is not on Community Pricing. For a collection of out-of-date works that are available for free on Google Books, and that has a narrow focus of who would be interested, this is the perfect candidate for a CP. Why charge $250 for it?
Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer. Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App
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BradN said:
I'm more than willing to go in on a Community Pricing project. But $399 for an un-morph tagged 1/10 of the whole makes no sense to me. If you've lost me (B.A. and M.A. in classical languages; M.A. student in theology), I'm afraid you've lost. Let's try to get that Biblical Languages Referance Grammars and Introductions collection ( http://www.logos.com/product/4679/biblical-languages-reference-grammars-and-introductions) going! It's a lot closer to production.
What makes you say that it isn't to be morph tagged ? I think that is only to be expected unless Logos specifically states it is not.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I'm saving my Greek text $$ for all the dinging we'll get as successive volumes of the Göttingen Septuagint come out. As for the Fathers, I'll limit my Greek texts to The Apostolic Fathers and Justin Martyr, as my Greek will never be good enough to tackle the others in any measure that warrants spending hundreds of $$.
Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)
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George Somsel said:BradN said:
I'm more than willing to go in on a Community Pricing project. But $399 for an un-morph tagged 1/10 of the whole makes no sense to me. If you've lost me (B.A. and M.A. in classical languages; M.A. student in theology), I'm afraid you've lost. Let's try to get that Biblical Languages Referance Grammars and Introductions collection ( http://www.logos.com/product/4679/biblical-languages-reference-grammars-and-introductions) going! It's a lot closer to production.
What makes you say that it isn't to be morph tagged ? I think that is only to be expected unless Logos specifically states it is not.
Phil Gon's comments to this blog post: http://blog.logos.com/2008/07/166_volumes_of_greek_goodness/
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Another one I really would want moved to CP would be http://www.logos.com/product/7671/early-bible-translations-collection. And Jastrow.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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fgh said:
Another one I really would want moved to CP would be http://www.logos.com/product/7671/early-bible-translations-collection. And Jastrow.
Agreed!
Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer. Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App
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BradN said:George Somsel said:BradN said:
I'm more than willing to go in on a Community Pricing project. But $399 for an un-morph tagged 1/10 of the whole makes no sense to me. If you've lost me (B.A. and M.A. in classical languages; M.A. student in theology), I'm afraid you've lost. Let's try to get that Biblical Languages Referance Grammars and Introductions collection ( http://www.logos.com/product/4679/biblical-languages-reference-grammars-and-introductions) going! It's a lot closer to production.
What makes you say that it isn't to be morph tagged ? I think that is only to be expected unless Logos specifically states it is not.
Phil Gon's comments to this blog post: http://blog.logos.com/2008/07/166_volumes_of_greek_goodness/
Funny, that answer was made to ... you George!
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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BradN said:George Somsel said:
What makes you say that it isn't to be morph tagged ? I think that is only to be expected unless Logos specifically states it is not.
Phil Gon's comments to this blog post: http://blog.logos.com/2008/07/166_volumes_of_greek_goodness/
He simply wasn't stating that it isn't definite that it will be morph tagged, but, since Philo, Josephus and Homer are morph tagged (even though they have that unspeakably obnoxious interlinear feature that absolutely MUST be turned off to even consider using it), it is hardly believable that it would not be. Of course, if it isn't, it isn't and it will be necessary to rely on my own ability to read it (which I generally do in any case unless there is a particularly obscure form). There is another alternative to that -- search for the form in other morph tagged texts and see what it is.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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fgh said:
Funny, that answer was made to ... you George!
Yes, I had noticed two things:
- It didn't specifically note that it would be tagged
- Phil had made a comment further up about tagging
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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fgh said:
Another one I really would want moved to CP would be http://www.logos.com/product/7671/early-bible-translations-collection. And Jastrow.
Yeah, I got the 5-volume Jastrow on CP, but committed to $50 for Jastrow's dictionary. I'd much prefer CP pricing on the dictionary. I saw it in hardcover at Half Price Books, so I figured I'd prefer it in Logos, but $50 is more than I want to pay.
No indication it will be CP'd anytime before it gets out of Pre-Pub, though.
*sigh*
Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)
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Eric Weiss said:
Yeah, I got the 5-volume Jastrow on CP, but committed to $50 for Jastrow's dictionary. I'd much prefer CP pricing on the dictionary. I saw it in hardcover at Half Price Books, so I figured I'd prefer it in Logos, but $50 is more than I want to pay.
No indication it will be CP'd anytime before it gets out of Pre-Pub, though.
Let's be quite honest -- anything is more that we really WANT to pay. We know, however, that you don't get something for nothing.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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fgh said:
Btw, I don't think that title is the most effective one imaginable in order to gain support.
If you really want to punish George for his post title, just threaten to make all of his Bibles show the interlinear, with no option to turn them off. He just might give them away. [:D] He is trembling just at the thought of it.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Unfortunately Since I can't afford to be otherwise, I'll have to continue being cheap. :-(
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Lynden Williams said:fgh said:
Btw, I don't think that title is the most effective one imaginable in order to gain support.
If you really want to punish George for his post title, just threaten to make all of his Bibles show the interlinear, with no option to turn them off. He just might give them away.
He is trembling just at the thought of it.Shhh ! Bite your tongue. He might find a way to do it.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
He might find a way to do it.
But, George, are you saying you still believe I'm a "he"? [:)]
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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George Somsel said:
Too many buy cheap resources such as Ironside and G. Campbell Morgan simply to increase their book count cheaply without considering that these will be of little or no use if they truly want to engage in biblical studies.
I don't buy resources just to increase my book count. And I don't really want 6 different commentaries that tell me the same thing. But out of ignorance I have purchased resources that seem to say the same thing.
George Somsel said:Why would I want 6 different commentaries which all tell me the same thing which is the standard old line which is based on a systematics view?
What do you mean when you say they are "based on a systematic view"?
George Somsel said:They should read some resources that will set forth the view of the early Church and works which will challenge the standard received view.
I am very interested in learning the views of the early Church. What resources would you recommend?
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fgh said:George Somsel said:
He might find a way to do it.
But, George, are you saying you still believe I'm a "he"?
I see you don't have an avatar -- now, at least -- but I seem to recall that you did previously and that the avatar was a male figure. Of course, my avatar is a young female, but I don't suppose anyone would suppose that I am a pre-school young lady. Yes, so far as I know, you are a male. If I'm wrong, correct me.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Ronald Quick said:George Somsel said:
Why would I want 6 different commentaries which all tell me the same thing which is the standard old line which is based on a systematics view?
What do you mean when you say they are "based on a systematic view"?
I mean resources which simply set forth the line of understanding which has been prevalent since the Reformation or even since the beginning of Church history without any question as to linguistic or other examination of the sources. It amounts to little more than saying that "our fathers" have held such views so we do as well.
Ronald Quick said:George Somsel said:They should read some resources that will set forth the view of the early Church and works which will challenge the standard received view.
I am very interested in learning the views of the early Church. What resources would you recommend?
There is the series of Ante-Nicene Fathers and the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers. There is also the work of Michael Holmes which has both the Greek of the Apostolic Fathers and a current English translation of these works. I hope to see some further publications in the area of Church history as well. This seems to be a serious deficiency in the Logos offerings. Too many Puritans and not enough of the early Church. Don't make the mistake of supposing that I consider whatever the Church Fathers said regarding scripture to be carved in granite with God's finger, but one would be foolish to dismiss what they had to say without giving it due consideration.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
I see you don't have an avatar -- now, at least -- but I seem to recall that you did previously and that the avatar was a male figure. Of course, my avatar is a young female, but I don't suppose anyone would suppose that I am a pre-school young lady. Yes, so far as I know, you are a male. If I'm wrong, correct me.
I have never had an avatar, and I have always been female. It's been addressed on several threads before -- but most of them are quite old by now. [;)]
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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fgh said:George Somsel said:
I see you don't have an avatar -- now, at least -- but I seem to recall that you did previously and that the avatar was a male figure. Of course, my avatar is a young female, but I don't suppose anyone would suppose that I am a pre-school young lady. Yes, so far as I know, you are a male. If I'm wrong, correct me.
I have never had an avatar, and I have always been female. It's been addressed on several threads before -- but most of them are quite old by now.
And you swear that you never had an operation ? [:O]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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What is the difference between the Ante-Nicene and Apostolic Fathers? Where does one stop and the other start. I have the Early church Fathers, http://www.logos.com/product/5771/early-church-fathers-protestant-edition, the Apostolic Fathers in Greek and English. What does one gain from getting this set?
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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The Apostolic Fathers are in Volume 1 of the Ante-Nicene Fathers, I believe. They're generally the Fathers who lived up to the end of the 1st century, or maybe a little later. E.g., Justin Martyr, who died ~165 A.D., is later than the Apostolic Fathers.
What you gain from getting the set being discussed is the original Greek and Latin texts, in editions like Rolfs' Septuagint (i.e., with notes of variant readings) . Of the Fathers, Logos so far only has the Apostolic Fathers and, in pre-pub, Justin Martyr in the original Greek. All the other Fathers are available only in the English-only editions of the set you have.
So if you work with Byzantine/Koinê Greek, and probably Latin, too, and you want to read the Fathers without a translation filter, this would be the set to get, from what I understand.
Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)
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Lynden Williams said:
What is the difference between the Ante-Nicene and Apostolic Fathers? Where does one stop and the other start. I have the Early church Fathers, http://www.logos.com/product/5771/early-church-fathers-protestant-edition, the Apostolic Fathers in Greek and English. What does one gain from getting this set?
The Apostolic Fathers are a subset of the Ante-Nicene Fathers. What one gains by having Holmes is the Greek text and a modern translation.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Eric Weiss said:
The Apostolic Fathers are in Volume 1 of the Ante-Nicene Fathers, I believe. They're generally the Fathers who lived up to the end of the 1st century, or maybe a little later. E.g., Justin Martyr, who died ~165 A.D., is later than the Apostolic Fathers.
What you gain from getting the set being discussed is the original Greek and Latin texts, in editions like Rolfs' Septuagint (i.e., with notes of variant readings) . Of the Fathers, Logos so far only has the Apostolic Fathers and, in pre-pub, Justin Martyr in the original Greek. All the other Fathers are available only in the English-only editions of the set you have.
So if you work with Byzantine/Koinê Greek, and probably Latin, too, and you want to read the Fathers without a translation filter, this would be the set to get, from what I understand.
Thanks for the input Eric, but I will work with Lightfoot's Greek edition which I have. For Biblical understanding, I am more interested in the Apostolic and the Ante-Nicene Fathers.
Shhhh! Don't tell George that the Greek version of the Apostolic Fathers, has an interlinear, which I will use to assist in translation. If you do, he may disable it.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Lynden Williams said:
Shhhh! Don't tell George that the Greek version of the Apostolic Fathers, has an interlinear, which I will use to assist in translation. If you do, he may disable it.
Consider it done. [6]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George - Thanks for the information.
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I already have PG on pre-pub...but if it takes so long to get the first installment through, is there any hope for the complete series? Everyone would have their own reason for owning L4...but I have to agree with you George, I made a decision when buying L4 to mainly buy anything that would assist in original language studies, and volumes I would never be able to get otherise (Berkouwer's Dogmatics is the perfect example). Most of the devotional style commentaries, I prefer to have in book version, as my main purpose is to sit back in my chair and read them.
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Is Mebin said:
Most of the devotional style commentaries, I prefer to have in book version, as my main purpose is to sit back in my chair and read them.
Of what use are "devotional" commentaries? It seems to me that the important matter is to understand the text first then to make YOUR OWN application.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George, devotional commentaries are like the spark that kindles a fire.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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George,
How long does it take to gain serious proficiency in original languages? That is a long term goal. Many people have trained in those languages in the past and have written to give the benefit of their understanding to others, some of them in everyday language because they know that most people won't ever get a chance to go to seminary and won't have the energy or time to learn Koine Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Coptic, Ethiopic, Syriac, etc. If I remember correctly from another thread your specialty is the OT. How long did it take you to develop your Hebrew skills to their current levels? How long to gain your Septuagint Greek skills? And you were working with it daily, I imagine. I'm relatively at the beginning of that battle myself. Shall I ignore reading anything else except for original language grammars, vocabularies, and syntaxes until I'm at my goal? Taking that route, most people would be unbelievers by the time they gained the desired proficiency, I dare say. I'm curious how you see this aspect of study. I do agree with your stated goal of making one's own application. I just think the process is a bit broader, including learning what others have seen in a particular passage, even if I don't agree with them.
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Oldnewbie said:
How long does it take to gain serious proficiency in original languages?
I really can't say since I haven't achieved that yet. I had a Greek major in college with more Greek in cemetary and more use since then. According to someone I'm in my 70s so that would mean more than 50 years. [:)] BTW: The rumor of my age is somewhat exaggerated.
EDIT: To sum up -- it takes a lifetime.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
Greek in cemetary
I suppose one could learn Greek there but I intend to wait until later.
Edit:: add: to learn it there.
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George Somsel said:Oldnewbie said:
How long does it take to gain serious proficiency in original languages?
I really can't say since I haven't achieved that yet. I had a Greek major in college with more Greek in cemetary and more use since then. According to someone I'm in my 70s so that would mean more than 50 years.
BTW: The rumor of my age is somewhat exaggerated.EDIT: To sum up -- it takes a lifetime.
George,
I'm assuming that either you meant "seminary" and are perhaps making reference to some brutally boring classes therein or are obliquely stating that said study nearly killed you. Either way.....LOL. Thanks, I needed that. Well said, sir!
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George Somsel said:
Of what use are "devotional" commentaries?
My appreciation of Hebrews would not be the same without reading John Owen! The absolute years men put into discerning the text, we can glean for our own studies by just reading what their study has produced. And in all honesty, I am not that smart. I need others, and their wisdom.
George Somsel said:It seems to me that the important matter is to understand the text first then to make YOUR OWN application.
This of course is the ultimate goal.
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George Somsel said:Oldnewbie said:
How long does it take to gain serious proficiency in original languages?
I really can't say since I haven't achieved that yet. I had a Greek major in college with more Greek in cemetary and more use since then. According to someone I'm in my 70s so that would mean more than 50 years.
BTW: The rumor of my age is somewhat exaggerated.EDIT: To sum up -- it takes a lifetime.
This explains it all...you are elderly and in pain, so you share your pain through insulting others! Novel concept George.[*] However, I do chuckle at your posts at times.
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MJD said:
This explains it all...you are elderly and in pain, so you share your pain through insulting others!
You're assuming quite a bit aren't you? I do occasionally get a muscle spasm in my back which can be quite painful (and which I've had since about the time my adult daughter was born), but generally I have no problems whatsoever. Just whom have I insulted? If you are referring to the subject of this thread, that is all in good humor. I do realize that everyone has his own priorities, but EVERYONE knows that the Greek text of the Church Fathers is of more importance than some sermons by some dead Puritans.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I've had this on order since it came out. It doesn't surprise me that it's still not going anywhere, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it finally move to community pricing.
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