Why Vyrso is a very good thing
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Wow!
Perhaps I am in the minority, but I just want to say I love Logos 4. I use it hours almost every day on two different computers (home and office). It doesn't crash my computers or run slow. I rarely have a problem. I don't find many typos, but when I do, I report them and they are fixed. I use notes often and am just now beginning to enjoy the benefits of all of the work I have done with them. The quality and efficiency of my Bible study has improved because of them.
I love Logos on my iPad. It is a great way to maximize my time reading when I am on the go (although I do long for highlighting).
If Vyrso adds more book choices to my library, then I love that too. If a book is too expensive, I won't complain, I will just not buy it. I imagine the books will end up being sold for reasonable prices (or they won't be sold).
Sure, Logos 4 isn't perfect. Maybe that's why I can identify with it so much.
I'm glad there isn't a forum like this where people can critique my ministries. I would probably be in a lot of trouble.
Noel
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David Paul said:
I bet Bob uses Apple. Could be wrong,
As he is a former Microsoft employee them may be fightin' words[8o|] [:D]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Like I said, I personally don't begrudge Mac users their Bible study opportunities.
However, I really would like to see the basics tended to before the bells and whistles start sucking up all the oxygen. For instance, after providing TOP FLIGHT NOTES capability, I would like to see the thousands of old dead links given some life. I also would like to see typos get fixed. Oh, and I would definitely like to have TOP FLIGHT NOTES capability.
I personally would like to see these things before any new resources are published--even ones I have on PrePub.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:
I would like to see the thousands of old dead links given some life.
What dead links are you referring to? I understand the Notes part of your post.[:)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:David Paul said:
I would like to see the thousands of old dead links given some life.
What dead links are you referring to?
This thread gives one example, but I have found numerous examples of other resources that have dead links also. I understand WHY they are non-functional--most of these resources are older and many of the links were to resources Logos may not have had in their stable at the time. But since the hotlink function of Logos is the MAIN advantage of digital resources, these links should be animated.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:
This thread gives one example, but I have found numerous examples of other resources that have dead links also.
Thanks - it was use of language that confused me as I thought of those as missing links. You are quite right that these are important.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Here is another example of a dead link which I just encountered:
NET Bible--Jer. 50
50:29 “Call for archers72 to come against Babylon!Summon against her all who draw the bow!72 72 tn For this word see BDB 914 s.v. III רַב and compare usage in Prov 26:10 and Job 16:12 and compare the usage of the verb in Gen 49:23. Based on this evidence, it is not necessary to emend the form to רֹבִים (rovim) as many commentators contend.The NET Bible (Je 50:29). (2006). Biblical Studies Press.The bold print in note 72 SHOULD link to BDB...but it doesn't. Such links are precisely why I pay big bucks to Logos. The premium up-charge is only worth it if the premiumosity is functional.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:
Here is another example of a dead link which I just encountered:
NET Bible--Jer. 50
50:29 “Call for archers to come against Babylon!
Summon against her all who draw the bow!
72 tn For this word see BDB 914 s.v. III רַב and compare usage in Prov 26:10 and Job 16:12 and compare the usage of the verb in Gen 49:23. Based on this evidence, it is not necessary to emend the form to רֹבִים (rovim) as many commentators contend.
The NET Bible (Je 50:29). (2006). Biblical Studies Press.The bold print in note 72 SHOULD link to BDB...but it doesn't. Such links are precisely why I pay big bucks to Logos. The premium up-charge is only worth it if the premiumosity is functional.
Report it as a typo.
These problems are why my suggestion about users being able to create hyperlinks in resources where they are missing is a good idea: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/11689/254795.aspx
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
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David Paul said:
The bold print in note 72 SHOULD link to BDB...but it doesn't. Such links are precisely why I pay big bucks to Logos. The premium up-charge is only worth it if the premiumosity is functional.
Logos policy is that resources should have active links to all resources that exist at the time of first publication. Where that doesn't happen (it's quite rare), then we should definitely report them as typos.
From time to time, they also go through old resources and update the links in them. That doesn't happen all that often, and tends to happen only for very major books. We know they're currently working on AYBD, for example.
My preference would very much be that every time Logos produced a new resource they went through all their old resources and retrospectively added links to the new resource. But as far as I know that's only happened once (with an Ugaritic collection). Now you might think that's a pretty obscure collection, and I guess it is, but even that involved adding thousands of links - and that was back in 2007 when the Logos library was a third of its present size. Today, that might well not have been possible within the budget constraints.
As a consequence, I've reluctantly accepted that my older resources may not have links to newer resources, and I don't report them as typos. However, for the books that I deem very important, and either email or write a forum post, so that at least Logos know there is demand for this sort of thing.
Bob's official position on this topic is available here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/23422.aspx
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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David Paul said:
I bet Bob uses Apple. Could be wrong,
Yes, you're wrong. :-) There is a Mac on my desk, next to my Windows box, but it's only used to check out our Mac releases. I'm still all Windows (plus iPhone and iPad -- I couldn't help it).
David Paul said:I'm starting to feel that Logos is getting away from its one-time core.
We just passed 20 years. I think that's a great track record of focus on Bible software. With that said, time marches on. The market and audience is different today than when we started, and we have to change to stay relevant and financially viable. I can think of quite a few companies even in Bible software specifically that have not changed one bit -- same product, same code base, same user interface they offered years ago. Admirably focused, and, sadly, practically irrelevant. (And in some cases, out of business.)
I'm sorry that I hadn't seen your NASB "bugs" post -- I wasn't ignoring it, I just didn't notice. But, as pointed out on that thread this week, it wasn't a bug; if anything it was "extra careful" attention to the paper book.
David Paul said:If Bob wants his fancy touch-screen toys...fine, have them--just as soon as the Bible Software in this Bible Software company works how it is supposed to. Until then, Vyrso, Proclaim, Biblia.com, etc. etc. etc. are the enemy in my book.
As for your treating every new thing we do as "the enemy" (including Biblia, which is still "Bible software" in my book!), I'm going to politely ignore this feedback unless you assure me you're still running Logos on Windows 3.0 with no Internet connection. Because, unless that's true, you have benefited and participated in our adoption of new technology, new UI, new code, etc. (In fact, I'm guessing you're using the Internet right now!) To say we should't develop Biblia.com because it wasn't "who brought us to the party" is, I believe, just silly.
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David Paul said:
Here is another example of a dead link which I just encountered:
NET Bible--Jer. 50
Okay, you've got us here. The NET Bible is more of the more glaringly-untagged resources. The problem here is that we didn't create it. It's one of the few "not-completely-obscure" books produced by another company using our publishing toolkit. (Most of the journals, unfortunately, are also in this camp.)
So this isn't something we can easily fix, and the files were even built with an older version of our system, etc. etc.
We no longer sell our publishing toolkit because we want to maintain our own standards and processes for tagging, and it was too hard to facilitate this for third parties. (To be fair to Galaxie, it's hard for them to link things correctly, because they don't have the source and access to internal identifiers for all the books their books are citing. Again, why we're doing all the book production ourselves moving forward.)
I'll take this as another reminder to try to work out some solution with Galaxie...
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Bob Pritchett said:
I'll take this as another reminder to try to work out some solution with Galaxie...
Sounds reasonable. Thanks Bob!
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Just trying to keep you on your toes, Bob. [A] You're a good guy...smart and on top of things. I'm just trying to exert pressure and energy in order to get some momentum behind the things that are important to me...LINKS and NOTES. I'm not too concerned about the rest. If it provides advantage, great! But none of the rest makes up for the core things, as far as I'm concerned. My usage pattern is laptop based...no smart phone, pad, or other apps. NOTES and LINKS and LINKS and NOTES. Once significant progress is made on these, I will probably be a content camper.
All that being what it is, I am indebted to you and Logos. I do appreciate all of your effort, and the effort of those you've got working for you at Logos.
Notes
Links
Notes
Links
Notes
[Y]
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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alabama24 said:
...
...Personally, however, I would not want to get bogged down by Amish love stories ....
The sordid story of a boy and his secret love...of chrome; a forbidden love that would make his fiancee churn--if he didn't butter her up.
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Theolobias said:
It will appear in whatever Logos app you're using: Logos 4, Logos 4 Mac, Logos iPhone/iPad app, Vyrso app. I think there are also scripts for most of the Vyrso books to have them in Libronix.
That may not be a desirable thing, to have Vyrso purchased books appear in Logos 4, it depends on the book. Please see my post in this link...
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/38885/290589.aspx#290589
Logos needs to carefully think about this.
"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein
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Patrick -
I agree that it would be nice to be able to hide resources from LOGOS, but still be able to utilize them on the app. I don't want princesses clogging up my library either [:)]
On the mobile apps, however, it is fairly simple to sort the ebooks out from the Logos library. In your library, search for "ebook."
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alabama24 said:
On the mobile apps, however, it is fairly simple to sort the ebooks out from the Logos library. In your library, search for "ebook."
Ahhh — but you're an experienced and intelligent Logos user. How's the average Joe Blow going to know s/he has to type "ebook" in the search field? It would be good if Logos could, given the audience for the Vyrso application, put some sort of filter(s) in the UI of the Library tab. Something which will only show Vyrso titles and/or exclude Logos Bible website purchases/titles.
"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein
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Patrick S. said:
Ahhh — but you're an experienced and intelligent Logos user.
Aww shucks. [:$] Nobody's called this Alabama boy "intelligent." [:)]
Patrick S. said:How's the average Joe Blow going to know s/he has to type "ebook" in the search field?
You are absolutely right. I agree. I don't think that we should have to use my method... I am just providing the advice so that others can benefit from it until a better solution is provided!
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alabama24 said:Patrick S. said:
Ahhh — but you're an experienced and intelligent Logos user.
Aww shucks.
Nobody's called this Alabama boy "intelligent." 
Well then I'm the first to vocalise what is an obvious thing [;)]
"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein
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