Collections and Keylinking
When I am doing a Passage Study and I want to only look through certain commentaries, how do I do this? I know how to make a collection, but how do I get that collection to work in the Passage Guide? Second, in Logos 3 you can organize a keylink that works to organize what kinds and only what kinds of book you use when doing Greek and Hebrew studies in the Exegetical guide and Word study. From what I have understood in the video, prioritizing resources will sort of do this, but I am confused as to how I only get a certain number of books to function this way.
Comments
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Jeremy,
I have prioritized those Commentary series which I use most regularly and in my preferred order.
In your Library, right click on a commentary (eg. WBC Mark 1:-8) and select prioritize this series.
Your Prioritized commentaries will then appear in the order in which you have prioritized the in the commentary section of the Passage Guide
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JeremyEllis said:
When I am doing a Passage Study and I want to only look through certain commentaries, how do I do this? I know how to make a collection, but how do I get that collection to work in the Passage Guide? Second, in Logos 3 you can organize a keylink that works to organize what kinds and only what kinds of book you use when doing Greek and Hebrew studies in the Exegetical guide and Word study. From what I have understood in the video, prioritizing resources will sort of do this, but I am confused as to how I only get a certain number of books to function this way.
Jeremy,
Right now you cannot select a collection of commentaries to search in the Passage Guide. Period. I don't like that and in beta testing we asked for a change. I don't know what the status of that request is.
There is no user customization for key-linking, nor creating of parallel and serial resources in 4.0. Again, that is something we asked for, sometimes quite strenuously. Someone at Logos will have to tell us if we will ever get any of this back. I know lots of folks never used it, but the bigger a person's library, the more they need to be able to limit what Logos searches through.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Books like "A Textual Commentary of the Greek New Testament" were in my Passage Guide collection in Logos 3. If I place it in a generalized priority list, will Logos know I want it to come up in my Passage Guide?
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I believe the answer is yes. Metzger is listed as a "Bible Commentary" under "Type". If it were not I don't think you could force it to show up. Give it a try.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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That is incredibly frustrating then. Maybe they just haven't gotten around to doing this just yet because it is a big project, but I am very close to ditching Logos 4 if they are never going to have these features. Logos just won't save me any time.
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Mark A. Smith said:
Right now you cannot select a collection of commentaries to search in the Passage Guide. Period. I don't like that and in beta testing we asked for a change. I don't know what the status of that request is.
There is no user customization for key-linking, nor creating of parallel and serial resources in 4.0. Again, that is something we asked for, sometimes quite strenuously. Someone at Logos will have to tell us if we will ever get any of this back. I know lots of folks never used it, but the bigger a person's library, the more they need to be able to limit what Logos searches through.
Mark,
I just created a collection called "Top 5 OT Commentaries". I used the rule WBC OR FOTL OR NICOT OR ITC OR Hermenia.
I then created a custom guide and called it "Top 5 OT Commentaries". Here, I only selected "collections" and from the drop down box chose only the new "Top 5 OT Commentaries" collection.
I ran this guide on Genesis 11:1-9 and it functions beautifully,
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JeremyEllis said:
Books like "A Textual Commentary of the Greek New Testament" were in my Passage Guide collection in Logos 3. If I place it in a generalized priority list, will Logos know I want it to come up in my Passage Guide?
Mark is right. This will show up.
I just ran a passage guide on Mark 1:1 and the commentary appeared.
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Damian,
Maybe you are getting something besides what I get by doing this. Here's a shot of doing this for Genesis 1:
I am getting hits but often multiple hits per commentary. That is not exactly the same thing as what the passage guide commentary section produces. Yes, you can make the case you can use this, but all Logos has to do is let us specify a collection to search in the Commentary section and we'd have what we want (and used to have).
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Think of the priority list as all the v3 keylink lists pushed together in one list. When Logos needs to find a match to a piece of data (verse reference, word, etc), it goes down the list from top to bottom to see if there are any hits. Sometimes it will filter for resource type, like only the "commentary" type will show up in the PG. (You can get the library to display the type of a resource in the detail (grid) view by rightclicking on the column headers and selecting "type".)JeremyEllis said:
Books like "A Textual Commentary of the Greek New Testament" were in my Passage Guide collection in Logos 3. If I place it in a generalized priority list, will Logos know I want it to come up in my Passage Guide?
Keylinks, though, will check the whole list. That is why bibles need to be before bible commentaries in the the list. In fact commentaries should probably be at the bottom of the list.
Once Logos has gone through the list, I think it then checks other resources in the library alphabetically. So all the matching commentaries will show up when you press "more" in the PG, including ones not in the preferred list. Same goes for keylinks...if you keylink on a word that isn't found in the resources on the list, it will check the rest of the library (like v3 did also).MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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JeremyEllis said:
Books like "A Textual Commentary of the Greek New Testament"
That's metzger, right? if so its in my passage guide.
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Damian McGrath said:
I just created a collection called "Top 5 OT Commentaries". I used the rule WBC OR FOTL OR NICOT OR ITC OR Hermenia.
I then created a custom guide and called it "Top 5 OT Commentaries". Here, I only selected "collections" and from the drop down box chose only the new "Top 5 OT Commentaries" collection.
I ran this guide on Genesis 11:1-9 and it functions beautifully,
The collection section of the PG will do a reference search on all the resources in the collection. It is a little different from the commentary section. You'll get hits on every reference to that passage anywhere in the commentary...not just the main section dealing with the passage.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Mark A. Smith said:
I am getting hits but often multiple hits per commentary. That is not exactly the same thing as what the passage guide commentary section produces. Yes, you can make the case you can use this, but all Logos has to do is let us specify a collection to search in the Commentary section and we'd have what we want (and used to have).
OK. I though you were saying we couldn't search collections of commentaries at all. I understand now - though I use "My Passage Guide" never the program defined one.
You're right about the presentation. It's a bit insane. It's searching by hits per "article" divided by word count - it needs to be "By Book" not "Ranked"
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Todd Phillips said:
The collection section of the PG will do a reference search on all the resources in the collection. It is a little different from the commentary section. You'll get hits on every reference to that passage anywhere in the commentary...not just the main section dealing with the passage.
I understand now that it's a basic search - "Ranked"
What's the advantage to searching a collection of commentaries in the Commentaries Section of the passage guide over prioritising one's favourite series so that they appear first?
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The advantage is that the books you don't want the Passage Guide to even search through will get in, even at the end. It takes up extra time and my computer isn't particularly fast. Now I am going to end up having to hide them if I don't want to see them.
What is the best priority list?
Bibles
Dictionaries
Greek and Hebrew Resources
Commentaries
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JeremyEllis said:
The advantage is that the books you don't want the Passage Guide to even search through will get in, even at the end.
Yeah, I suppose so. This hasn't really bothered me and neither of my computers is especially fast.
JeremyEllis said:What is the best priority list?
Bibles
Dictionaries
Greek and Hebrew Resources
Commentaries
In part this depends on your needs.
I like a one volume bible commentary to appear in the right click context menu, so I have that set higher.
So I have two english bibles, Harper's Bible Commentary, NA27, BHS, LXX
I've put my other English Bibles a fair way down the list because I then have a preference for commentaries...
Mixed in I have most of my Bible Dictionaries
and way down I have my Lexicons all set with the advanced options
Finally a couple of devotionals so as to control their order on the Home Page.
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What are the advanced options with the lexicons?
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JeremyEllis said:
What are the advanced options with the lexicons?
Jeremy, I'm sorry for the lack of pictures but my notebook is slow as mud while it's indexing so I shut down 4.0 here.
Once a book is prioritized you can right-click and select "set prioritization limits (advanced)"
Here, you can chose to limit the way in which the resource is accessed by "keylinks" For example, my LXX Lexicon only shows up from the Morphologically tagged Septuagint. And my other language lexicons will only be triggered by Gk or Hebrew or Latin terms.
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JeremyEllis said:
What is the best priority list?
The one that works for me is structured as follows (type the command in the Library Find bar to see books of that category):-
5 English bibles eg. type:bible lang:English
5 English dictionaries eg. title:bible dictionary (I have 4 Bible Dictionaries with Merriam-Webster last).
5 Greek lexicons eg. type:dictionary title:greek
5 Hebrew-Aramaic Lexicons eg. type:dictionary title:hebrew
5 Greek Bibles eg. type:bible lang:Greek
5 Hebrew Bibles eg. type:bible lang:Hebrew
5 commentaries eg. type:commentaryDave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave,
Is there a benefit to having at least 5 of each - does this help in some places in the program?
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Damian McGrath said:
Is there a benefit to having at least 5 of each
The software lists up to 5 resources in various context menus and more in Guides, so it prevents Logos' default resources filling too many slots!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:JeremyEllis said:
What is the best priority list?
The one that works for me is structured as follows (type the command in the Library Find bar to see books of that category):-
5 English bibles eg. type:bible lang:English
5 English dictionaries eg. title:bible dictionary (I have 4 Bible Dictionaries with Merriam-Webster last).
5 Greek lexicons eg. type:dictionary title:greek
5 Hebrew-Aramaic Lexicons eg. type:dictionary title:hebrew
5 Greek Bibles eg. type:bible lang:Greek
5 Hebrew Bibles eg. type:bible lang:Hebrew
5 commentaries eg. type:commentaryI put more than five in for everything but bibles, because you may not get hits in every resource, plus the PG displays six commentaries by default. Also, the power lookup will show everything (as does clicking "More" for commentaries in the PG) so I made sure all the stuff I wanted to see first was prioritized.
Also, I prioritized WCF, Josephus, and the Mishnah because I was having trouble getting popups to work for these references when they weren't in the list.
(I actually have between 80 and 90 entries total in my Preferred List [:$]. )
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Todd Phillips said:
Also, I prioritized WCF, Josephus, and the Mishnah because I was having trouble getting popups to work for these references when they weren't in the list.
Thanks for the reminder. I meant to add Josephus.
Is it a bug that these resources don't even seem to appear?
Dave,
Thanks for the response.
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Damian McGrath said:Todd Phillips said:
Also, I prioritized WCF, Josephus, and the Mishnah because I was having trouble getting popups to work for these references when they weren't in the list.
Thanks for the reminder. I meant to add Josephus.
Is it a bug that these resources don't even seem to appear?
Don't know. I think they do appear after a long time. It may just be a problem with the long preferred list. Josephus was linking to the Josephus apparatus instead of the actual text.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Mark A. Smith said:
There is no user customization for key-linking, nor creating of parallel and serial resources in 4.0
I have upgraded to V4, but am waiting for the birth bangs to go away before I install.
The parallel resource function is a HUGE asset for me. I have set up all of my commentaries as parallel resources, based on the books of the bible. Thus all of my Romans commentaries are parallel resources etc... This allows me to quickly jump from scripture to all of the commentaries that I have for a particular book of the bible. While reading the bible, I launch a multi-volume commentary from my toolbar. This opens up the multi-volume commentary to the verse that I am studying. I can then quickly navigate to all of my commentaries.
This function is extremely valuable to someone that has a large library. I have over 500 volumes of commentaries.
PEASE BOB, Don’t take it away this function
God Bless
Mark
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JeremyEllis said:
Books like "A Textual Commentary of the Greek New Testament" were in my Passage Guide collection in Logos 3. If I place it in a generalized priority list, will Logos know I want it to come up in my Passage Guide?
jeremy,
Here's how I do it....
I make a collection called "Systematic Theologies" and one called "Textual Criticism" and so on...
then i make a custom passage guide and choose them and they come up just like all of the other resources.
In fact..I only use custom passage guides due to the fact that I don't care for a lot of the stock stuff....
If you name your custom passge guide "My Passage Guide" then Logos will use it by default...
http://www.screencast.com/users/rpavich123/folders/Jing/media/210cb747-2969-408f-a795-d1cba0fe57a9
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Right on Robert. L4 is a HUGE improvement for customized searching and PG is quote amazing. We got used to making our work habits fit L3, and now we have the flexibility to make L4 to work our way. Granted, it does take a bit of effort to make it work "my way", but NO software that offers power works the right way out of the box. L4 gives us options. we just have to take time, learn them and create a system custom to our needs. I really find it quite genius.
A few features are missing, but Logos has given us a timeline for implementation. The extra time is needed because they are wanting to integrate the old features with superior performance. If people want the same feature with no improvement, use 3.0. If people want the same feature with superior performance, it will be here in 4.0.
PS
I base my conclusion on experience over the past 7+ weeks of beta testing AND a decade of using Logos.
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Robert Pavich said:JeremyEllis said:
Books like "A Textual Commentary of the Greek New Testament" were in my Passage Guide collection in Logos 3. If I place it in a generalized priority list, will Logos know I want it to come up in my Passage Guide?
jeremy,
Here's how I do it....
I make a collection called "Systematic Theologies" and one called "Textual Criticism" and so on...
then i make a custom passage guide and choose them and they come up just like all of the other resources.
In fact..I only use custom passage guides due to the fact that I don't care for a lot of the stock stuff....
If you name your custom passge guide "My Passage Guide" then Logos will use it by default...
http://www.screencast.com/users/rpavich123/folders/Jing/media/210cb747-2969-408f-a795-d1cba0fe57a9
How do you make a custom passage guide?
One other thing. When I perform a Word study, will Logos only let me use a prearranged set of word(s) to search? It seems that it won't let me just type in a word or a Greek word and then search for it.
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JeremyEllis said:
How do you make a custom passage guide?
It's in the second half of the Guides on the tool bar. When you start one, it's self-evident (to me) how to do it.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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JeremyEllis said:
How do you make a custom passage guide?
Jeremy,
Try this training video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM5WY7WfUzI
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I didn't know how to make a Custom Guide. Now that I have done this, the question I had related to utilizing the Passage Guide and a collection has been answered. Super!
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Well instead of going around the world to get across the street- just implement the "properties" program in v4 for passage guide- it was much better than what 4 offers now by very big long shot.
MHO
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Whyndell Grizzard said:
Well instead of going around the world to get across the street- just implement the "properties" program in v4 for passage guide- it was much better than what 4 offers now by very big long shot.
MHO
I thought that about 30 minutes ago, but the Custom Guide in Logos 4 is much better now.
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Joe Miller said:
Custom guides are amazing. I hope to blog how it has given me the ability to do sermon prep in a much more efficient way.
I agree. I have a blank guide for when I quickly want to see just one section. right click at a verse, select open blank guide, add the section. Its a snap and fast! I also have a worship guide with cross references for call to worship info, parallel passages for responsive readings, music and media.
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For my word studies, I made a custom guide and added my dictionary collection to it. The Encyclopedia of Christianity is in it. But when I do a search for a word that this dictionary has an entry for, it still never comes up. What gives?
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JeremyEllis said:
For my word studies, I made a custom guide and added my dictionary collection to it. The Encyclopedia of Christianity is in it. But when I do a search for a word that this dictionary has an entry for, it still never comes up. What gives?
Well, it's incorrectly typed as a "monograph" instead of a "dictionary", perhaps that is the reason. (See the type in the library by right clicking on the column headers and selecting "type").
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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I know. I thought making a custom guide and putting this book in a collection in it was the way to get around it.
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Todd Phillips said:
Well, it's incorrectly typed as a "monograph" instead of a "dictionary", perhaps that is the reason. (See the type in the library by right clicking on the column headers and selecting "type").
That shouldn't matter should it for a search on a collection in a custom guide?
I'm a bit stumped! Also brain dead today....
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Jeremy,
What word EXACTLY were you searching for?
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Law
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Sorry,
I don't have that reference volume..
I have the stock scholars silver stuff...
here is what comes up for me...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Correct me if I am wrong, there seems to be no way to easily add certain specific books to a collection titled e.g. "Best Commentaries" where commentary series U on Acts would be included, commentary series V and W on Romans, commentary series X on 1 Cor, and so on would be added. What I'm trying to do is build up a collection of the best commentaries based on reviews etc, but I don't want all the books of each series to appear in this collection. It seems that dynamic collections are not suited to this type of arrangement. Any thoughts?
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John Duffy said:
Correct me if I am wrong, there seems to be no way to easily add certain specific books to a collection titled e.g. "Best Commentaries" where commentary series U on Acts would be included, commentary series V and W on Romans, commentary series X on 1 Cor, and so on would be added. What I'm trying to do is build up a collection of the best commentaries based on reviews etc, but I don't want all the books of each series to appear in this collection. It seems that dynamic collections are not suited to this type of arrangement. Any thoughts?
I think your right, its too subjective. You will have to do this one manually I believe. You can either 1) tag them all the same, e.g. BestComms and then set up a collection with a rule of mytag:bestcomms. Or you can add them one by one to the "+ these resources" section. Put the collection and Library side by side and drag the commentary you want into this section.
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Philip Spitzer said:
I think your right, its too subjective. You will have to do this one manually I believe. You can either 1) tag them all the same, e.g. BestComms and then set up a collection with a rule of mytag:bestcomms. Or you can add them one by one to the "+ these resources" section. Put the collection and Library side by side and drag the commentary you want into this section.
Thanks Philip. That's great.
I was thinking for a while that there would be no way to do it at all. I wasn't aware that you could build up collections manually using those methods.
So, essentially in v4 we can make our collections manually like in v3, or ithey can be purely dynamic, or a mixture of both.
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John Duffy said:
Thanks Philip. That's great.
I was thinking for a while that there would be no way to do it at all. I wasn't aware that you could build up collections manually using those methods.
So, essentially in v4 we can make our collections manually like in v3, or ithey can be purely dynamic, or a mixture of both.
Correct. The beauty of the tag is that all you have to do to add another book to the collection is tag it, you don't have to open the the collection. This will be even more useful when the tagging and Rating options are made available on the resource info page as Bob said they are shooting for. In a since, this is manually dynamic. :-)
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I'm still having problems with my passage guide.You said if I edit a template and call it "My Passage Guide," that one will come up automatically as the normal passage guide? But even when I name it that, Logos reverts to the old version of the passage guide.
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JeremyEllis said:
But even when I name it that, Logos reverts to the old version of the passage guide.
How are you opening the passage guide? If I use the passage guide from the home page, "my passage guide" is pulled up. If I actually open the guide tab (icon), I have the choice of both.
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Terry Poperszky said:JeremyEllis said:
But even when I name it that, Logos reverts to the old version of the passage guide.
How are you opening the passage guide? If I use the passage guide from the home page, "my passage guide" is pulled up. If I actually open the guide tab (icon), I have the choice of both.
I see the problem. If I call an edited passage guide "My Passage Guide," it will only automatically come up from the homepage.
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OK . . . I know it has been some time since anyone has responded to this thread, but I'm hoping someone here might be able to help me out.
If, for instance, I am looking at my Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia, what is the quickest way to get to that word in the BDB?
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Scott Gourley said:
OK . . . I know it has been some time since anyone has responded to this thread, but I'm hoping someone here might be able to help me out.
If, for instance, I am looking at my Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia, what is the quickest way to get to that word in the BDB?
If the BDB is your highest prioritized Hebrew lexicon, double click on that word.
If it isn't, right click, select lemma in the context menu, then click the title of the BDB in the list that is generated on the left side of the right click menu.
Prov. 15:23
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