Forum Guidelines: No Theology Debates
Comments
-
Schezic said:
]Bob made the point that the Catholics were less likely to "split" because they have a hierarchy.
I think we have a "more or less" problem here. I was about to reply to your post as I received it, but I think you changed your "more" to "less" (which is correct).
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
<deleted by author>
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
MJ. Smith said:
<deleted by author>
MJ,
As far as I know, the Pope has only spoken twice ex cathedra. Once in the 1850's and once in the 1950's. Also, if my memory serves me correctly, the Pope at that time did not say anything new (from a Roman Catholic point of view) when he spoke ex cathedra.
I am wondering if this is true? (My resources only tell me what ex cathedra is, not when the Pope has spoken ex cathedra or the statement he said when he spoke ex cathedra).
A simple yes or no will be sufficient. This is because a more detailed answer could spawn yet another attack (IMHO) on the my Roman Catholic brothers and sisters because of their faith in our risen Lord and Savior.
0 -
Papal supremacy refers to the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church that the pope, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ and as pastor of the entire Christian Church, has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered:[1] that, in brief, "the Pope enjoys, by divine institution, supreme, full, immediate, and universal power in the care of souls." (wikipedia)
NOT MY SOUL !
The → Reformation under the young Martin Luther (1483–1546) at first strongly supported the idea of equality on a theological basis (→ Luther’s Theology). If God alone justifies us by grace, we are all equal before him, and all believers are priests. All being equal, none can rule, but each is subject to the other (LW 45.117)
Fahlbusch, E., & Bromiley, G. W. (1999-2003). Vol. 2: The encyclopedia of Christianity (115). Grand Rapids, Mich.; Leiden, Netherlands: Wm. B. Eerdmans; Brill.
The question of whether the pope or the emperor would be sovereign over the church went back to the eleventh century when Pope Gregory VII had resisted the efforts of the emperor Henry IV to nominate bishops and induct them into office. He asserted papal supremacy and insisted that “the Roman Church has never erred, nor ever, by witness of Scripture, shall err to all eternity.”
Dockery, D. S., Butler, T. C., Church, C. L., Scott, L. L., Ellis Smith, M. A., White, J. E., & Holman Bible Publishers (Nashville, T. (1992). Holman Bible Handbook (867). Nashville, TN: Holman Bible Publishers.
0 -
Generally speaking yes. Wikipedia under Papal Infallibility shows 5 earlier possible instances.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Schezic said:
The question of whether the pope or the emperor would be sovereign over the church went back to the eleventh century
Early bishops were often elected by their people. Check out the history of Santa Claus (aka St. Nicholas of Myra). The church vs. state battle is being played out again in China. For actual, solid (but occasionally flawed) theological history we all need the Harnack collection http://www.logos.com/product/8524/adolf-von-harnack-collection I have not understood why this collection is not more enthusiastically received.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
MJ. Smith said:
Early bishops were often elected by their people. Check out the history of Santa Claus (aka St. Nicholas of Myra).
The case is thus with Augustine. <logosres:odcc;hw=Augustine,_St.,_of_Hippo>
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
tom collinge said:
I am wondering if this is true? (My resources only tell me what ex cathedra is, not when the Pope has spoken ex cathedra or the statement he said when he spoke ex cathedra).
A simple yes or no will be sufficient. This is because a more detailed answer could spawn yet another attack (IMHO) on the my Roman Catholic brothers and sisters because of their faith in our risen Lord and Savior.
That is exactly why I like having expanded resources in my Logos library. These kind of questions could be answered if we have access to what others have written and said. I don't have to believe everything in my library (it would be impossible to do without a heavy dose of schizophrenia) but at least I could know what I am disagreeing with.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
I never objected to Catholic resources, as I have never objected to agnostic or atheist resources. A line was crossed when a position was created just to cater to the whims of Catholics. Imagine if Logos appointed a rep to perpetuate resources for agnostics and atheists. Logos is purported to be Bible Study Software... Not denomination software.
0 -
Schezic said:
I never objected to Catholic resources, as I have never objected to agnostic or atheist resources. A line was crossed when a position was created just to cater to the whims of Catholics. Imagine if Logos appointed a rep to perpetuate resources for agnostics and atheists. Logos is purported to be Bible Study Software... Not denomination software.
Consider it to be affirmative action. Catholics have been neglected for some time so their concerns need to be addressed. [:)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
Affirmative action is a slippery slope. Have not the Muslims been neglected by Logos? Do we need to appoint someone to bring their books into logos? The ratio of Catholic to Protestant resources could have been regulated without publicly appointing a diplomat to Rome. It's about the money, Lebowski !George Somsel said:Consider it to be affirmative action.
0 -
Schezic said:
Affirmative action is a slippery slope. Have not the Muslims been neglected by Logos? Do we need to appoint someone to bring their books into logos? The ratio of Catholic to Protestant resources could have been regulated without publicly appointing a diplomat to Rome.George Somsel said:Consider it to be affirmative action.
Negative. Note that the company's name is "Logos Bible Software", not "Logos Library Software." That other items are included there is typical of a theological library, not a general library.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
And those theological libraries apply a full-time employee to promote a particular viewpoint?George Somsel said:That other items are included there is typical of a theological library
0 -
Schezic said:
And those theological libraries apply a full-time employee to promote a particular viewpoint?George Somsel said:That other items are included there is typical of a theological library
Forget it. I don't talk to those whose mind is cast in concrete.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
Schezic said:
A line was crossed
What line?
Surely this is Bob's company and he can determine the size and scope of the operations, the markets he wishes to target, the positions within the company he would like to create, and the people he would like to fill them.
The only line I can see being crossed is the one which Bob very clearly drew in the sand with the initial post in this thread: "Stop posting about errors in other people's doctrine. Please stop posting your own doctrine. Please stop responding to correct misperceptions or misunderstandings or to counter attacks."
0 -
We have accomplished one thing today. We now know that you don't talk to yourself !George Somsel said:I don't talk to those whose mind is cast in concrete.
0 -
Schezic said:
I never objected to Catholic resources, as I have never objected to agnostic or atheist resources.
I have to ask: Did you intentionally compare your lack of objection to Catholic resources with your lack of objection to "agnostic or atheist resources," or was that merely a theologically Freudian slip?
I bet you also have never objected to Reformed or Evangelical resources. And so, in your post, you could have said you have never objected to Catholic resources, just as you have never objected to Reformed or Evangelical resources. But you didn't. You chose to compare Catholic resources with those of interest to agnostics and atheists.
To me that's telling. Just wondering whether it is to you.
Bill
0 -
Schezic said:
We have accomplished one thing today. We now know that you don't talk to yourself !George Somsel said:I don't talk to those whose mind is cast in concrete.
Only when I want an intelligent conversation.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
Yes it is telling...It tells me I read Bob's post.Bill Coley said:To me that's telling. Just wondering whether it is to you.
Bob Pritchett said:Moving forward we at Logos will try to do an even better job helping you understand what’s what among the books in our library. We will continue to publish Jewish, Muslim, Catholic, Orthodox, and denominationally-specific works. (Along with academic works by atheists and agnostics.)
0 -
Damian McGrath said:
The only line I can see being crossed is the one which Bob very clearly drew in the sand with the initial post in this thread: "Stop posting about errors in other people's doctrine. Please stop posting your own doctrine. Please stop responding to correct misperceptions or misunderstandings or to counter attacks."
Thank you Damian.
It is always a pleasure to read your respectable posts
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
Matthew C Jones said:
Thank you Damian.
It is always a pleasure to read your respectable posts
Thank You Matthew for your input.
Bob Pritchett said:Please stop responding to correct misperceptions or misunderstandings or to counter attacks.
Matthew C Jones said:Much of the posting this week (including some I have done) is at best unhelpful. At worst sinful.
0 -
Schezic said:
Yes it is telling...It tells me I read Bob's post.
Bob Pritchett said:Moving forward we at Logos will try to do an even better job helping you understand what’s what among the books in our library. We will continue to publish Jewish, Muslim, Catholic, Orthodox, and denominationally-specific works. (Along with academic works by atheists and agnostics.)
So, to report your lack of objection to Catholic resources, you had your choice of six different communities listed in Bob's post: Jewish, Muslim, Orthodox, denominationally-specific, atheist, and agnostic. That means, you could have told us you do not object to Catholic resources, just as you do not object to Orthodox or denominationally-specific resources. But you didn't. You chose to group Catholic resources with those of interest to atheists and agnostics. That's still telling to me. Is it to you?
Bill
0 -
You read into it what you will. It is just the example that draws the sharpest contrast. 4 of the other choices at least Accept Christ as our Savior.Note that I later asked if someone should be appointed to promote Muslim resources. To your point...I would have thought it unnecessary to promote any of the denominations,religions, cults, or sects exclusively...and would have said so.Bill Coley said:That's still telling to me. Is it to you?
EDIT ! I stand corrected...I should have said that some of the other choices profess to believe in GOD...Not Christ
0 -
Schezic said:
4 of the other choices at least Accept Christ as our Savior.
Jews, Muslims, atheists and agnostics?
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
0 -
Schezic said:
You read into it what you will. ItBill Coley said:That's still
telling to me. Is it to you?
is just the example that draws the sharpest contrast. 4 of the other
choices at least Accept Christ as our Savior.Note that I later asked if
someone should be appointed to promote Muslim resources. To your
point...I would have thought it unnecessary To promote any of the
denominations exclusively...and would have said so.EDIT ! I stand corrected...I should have said that they profess to believe in GOD...Not Christ
Now your point is that "at least" the Jews, the Muslims, the Orthodox, and denominational churches "profess to believe in God." You do realize that it is reasonable, logical, and rational for people to infer from your remarks that you believe Roman Catholics do not profess to believe in God? That sounds harsh, I know, but it is the obvious implication of your posts. Do you *really* want to go there? Please tell me you don't want to go there. Disagree with Roman Catholic theology and practice all you want, but don't go there!
I know we're not supposed to critique each other's doctrine, but there are times when we need a mirror held up. This is one of those times.
Bill
0 -
What's with all the little weenies we've been seeing of late, anyway? [8-|]
0 -
I didn't "go there" You did by your "inference." My objection is not with the Catholics or what they believe...It is the policy (at least for the moment) of placing their interests above all other denominations that is at issue.Bill Coley said:Disagree with Roman Catholic theology and practice all you want, but don't go there!
0 -
Michael Anda said:
What's with all the little weenies we've been seeing of late, anyway?
Bill Coley said:there are times when we need a mirror held up. This is one of those times.
0 -
Schezic said:
It is the policy (at least for the moment) of placing their interests above all other denominations that is at issue.
Note that the historical depth and the theological breadth of "Catholic" creates a large overlap with Orthodox, Church of the East, Anglican, Lutheran and church history resources. I suspect that "catholic" is simply a convenient tag to indicate that Logos has grown to need to divide the work load of the product manager(s). We know from statistics that Logos already had product manager(s) with knowledge in the Evangelical/Reformed world. If you want to rename Andrew the product manager for non-Evangelical/Reformed resources, I'm sure he'll not be offended. This is the current distribution of Logos resources:
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Thanks for the chart MJ, I see we are near the bottom. Appreciate your broad mindedness, in not asking an individuals theological perspective before helping on the forums, which may be the next suggestion.
Please users, lets not tie up the CEO's time with theological debates, let him focus on making the best Bible software better.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
0
