What kind of books does Logos publish?
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Thank you, Bob. [Y]
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Definitely well crafted.
I'm not sure what's new, except the atheist and agnostic areas. That should be interesting . If folks get uncomfortable about the nuances of Biblical interpretation, I would have to imagine these new areas will be of 'interest'. My guess is that with the library expansion, most rationalizing of personal beliefs are going to fall by the wayside quickly.
The increased attention to tagging resources by author's inclinations will be really invaluable. Right now it's hard to guess where an author's going to 'land' and so scanning the attended-seminary etc. is a necessity. If our pastor ever gets Logos, we can quickly give him some mis-purchases that he'll probably not enjoy too.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Bob Pritchett said:
Logos Bible Software will soon be offering general Christian books in e-book format. We’ll be partnering with Christian publishers to offer all of their electronic titles for our Vyrso e-Book Reader, which is compatible with Logos Bible Software 4. The number of titles offered for Logos will more than double very quickly. In this new, larger catalog I know you will find many books you have long wanted to have available digitally. I also know that there are authors and titles there that both you and I wish had never been published. But that’s the price of a large library, and a consequence of the fact that we might actually disagree on some particulars, even while finding unity in essentials.
Moving forward we at Logos will try to do an even better job helping you understand what’s what among the books in our library. We will continue to publish Jewish, Muslim, Catholic, Orthodox, and denominationally-specific works. (Along with academic works by atheists and agnostics.) We will, however, make it clear who the author is, who the publisher is, and the faith tradition of the work. Our own publications, however, will continue to reflect an evangelical perspective. (Some technical and academic works from Logos will contain contributions from non-evangelical scholars, but nothing contrary to our statement of faith.)
We hold Scripture in the highest regard and believe in its unique authority. We see it as the job of the Bible student and Bible teacher to interpret and apply God’s Word, and we have intentionally (and consistently) taken the position that as a business we serve Bible study best by offering a large library and powerful tools, rather than a small library reflecting our own (strongly held) theological positions.
I know that some of you agree, but only to a point, believing that this position or that, or this book or that book, are one step too far outside the fold. But I hope that in a world where every modern Bible translation, point of theology, author and pastor has a sincere and thoughtful critic, you can appreciate the value of a library that doesn’t take sides, and come to value Logos Bible Software as a useful tool whose content must still be approached with discernment, like any library, bookstore, radio, television or even the Internet.
Bob,
Thank you for your excellent statement about Logos publishing. I'm sure that most customers have not considered many of the questions faced by a publisher/library that you have detailed.
I spent 10 years managing a small denominational bookstore in a small town. I prided myself on knowing my book selections and my customers. I tried to match the products to the right customers. I also spent over 10 years representing book and Bible publishers to bookstores. I adopted the same type of philosophy with them. Often I would inform a store about a new product, but advise them that it might not be of interest to their particular customers. My customers varied from small "mom and pop" stores to denominational and Catholic stores, conservative to liberal as well as trade bookstores.
I am thrilled with the size and variety of Logos titles.
With the scale of Logos offerings and customers, it is impossible to try to match up individuals with the wide variety of product available. I do appreciate that a greater effort will be made to identify the perspective that an author takes in his books. I'm sure that there will be another debate over any attempt to label/tag perspectives. That is always a difficult job. As a publishers' rep, I was always worried about the sales copy that I was given for a title. Often it represented more of what a title "hoped" to accomplish. At least with Logos, the titles have already been published and reviewed.
We are truly blessed to live today. We have more Christian resources available than ever in history. That includes great current titles as well as classics that have been out of print.
Having these titles available in our Logos software libraries with all the extraordinary abilities provided by the Logos software is absolutely incredible.
Thank you Bob and Logos!
Keep up the great work and I will keep buying as my finances allow.
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Bob, thank you very much your clarifying statements and updating us all on the company's position. It was well stated indeed!
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DMB said:
If our pastor ever gets Logos, we can quickly give him some mis-purchases that he'll probably not enjoy too.
Logos offers a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you inadvertently purchase an unappreciated resource Customer Service can help.
DMB said:The increased attention to tagging resources by author's inclinations will be really invaluable. Right now it's hard to guess where an author's going to 'land' and so scanning the attended-seminary etc. is a necessity.
Knowing their seminary education is a helpful barometer but is not fail-safe. Schools go through doctrinal swings. And not all graduates necessarily agree with their professors' indoctrination. (thankfully [;)] )
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Thanks Bob.
Well stated, reasonable and clear. If you're looking for support for your company's position, you've got mine. I suspect you don't really need it.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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I agree with Bob
What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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Dear Bob & Logos,
I appreciate and agree with much of what you articulated in this forum. My concern does not lie exactly with what you are offering in literature. Varied theological perspectives should be welcomed to help sharpen our understanding in a wide array of topics....including theology or different theologies. My concern is Logos providing office support for the non-Christian religion of Catholicism. You are now providing support in your offices for the Catholic religion, which is not Christian.
As a Christian, my support of a cult does matter whether I'm Joe Congregation, Senior Pastor, or CEO of a Christian organization. We are first and last Christian and to fracture our Biblical standards stating it is not acceptable for a Christian pastor to support Catholicism, Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses and Muslims, but as a Christian ministry it is acceptable and permissible to support these cults is a sad commentary on how we American Christian's view our Christianity. Does Biblical teaching and standards stop at the office door? Could the Christian ministry, Focus on the Family hire a Muslim to help promote Islam to spread the Islamic message around the world?
The sobering words of John in his second letter says, "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. 11 Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work." Is this instruction and warning of the Holy Spirit to be applied only to our personal home, but not applicable for our Christian ministry/business? Is this not to be applied to both to our home residence and our Christian ministry? I think the answer is clear from Scriptures that welcoming another gospel into our home or Christian ministry is unacceptable.
Galatians 1:8 says "8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! The question is why would any Christian Ministry want to financially support a false religion that is diametrically opposed to Jesus and His Teachings? It truly baffles me.
My concern is that eventually, Logos will become a secularized company that happens to offer Christian materials, and to me that is sad.
Pastor Dan R. Eide
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Dan R. Eide said:
Dear Bob & Logos,
I appreciate and agree with much of what you articulated in this forum. My concern does not lie exactly with what you are offering in literature. Varied theological perspectives should be welcomed to help sharpen our understanding in a wide array of topics....including theology or different theologies. My concern is Logos providing office support for the non-Christian religion of Catholicism. You are now providing support in your offices for the Catholic religion, which is not Christian.
As a Christian, my support of a cult does matter whether I'm Joe Congregation, Senior Pastor, or CEO of a Christian organization.
Dan, please refrain from bashing other people. You have a different definition of what a "Christian" is than other people do, and it is inflammatory to call the largest group of believers in the world who claim that name to be, in fact, not Christian. Your disagreement is a theological one, and is what Bob has been trying to forbid in these forums. Take it elsewhere.
Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer. Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App
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Thank you very much, Bob. I sincerely do appreciate the the variety of books being offered at Logos.
Rev Chris said:Dan, please refrain from bashing other people. You have a different definition of what a "Christian" is than other people do, and it is inflammatory to call the largest group of believers in the world who claim that name to be, in fact, not Christian. Your disagreement is a theological one, and is what Bob has been trying to forbid in these forums. Take it elsewhere.
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15" rMBP 2.6 GHz i7 | 16 GB RAM | 1.0 TB Flash Drive | OS X 10.12.3 | Logos 7.0 (7.3.0.0062)
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I agree with you0
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I agree with you [Y][Y][Y][Y][Y][Y][Y]
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Kennet, welcome to the forums.
Kennet Eriksson said:I agree with you
Just a note for future reference, you might click Reply rather than Quick Reply and include a portion of the post to which you are responding. this way, no one would be confused as to which post has your agreement. Clicking on the replied link led to inconclusive results as it could have been either of the last two posts on page 2.
Hope this is clear.
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Bob, thanks for taking the time for such a detailed explanation. I feel much better after reading this post vs. your prior post.
Thanks for a great product.
Mark
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So I can read this as...we will sell to the widest possible market we can possibly get by stretching the theological statement of the Evangelical Publishing Association until it is distorted. However, we don't hold a theological position but we cannot publish known "liberal" theologians like Tillich and Reuther because they will offend and violate the EPA statement of faith. So please buy more products until we can find another hole in which to squeak through more suspect views while maintaining the integrity of the EPA statement. I would have more respect if the company just said we hold a certain theological position and that is the end of discussion.
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Rene Atchley said:
So I can read this as...we will sell to the widest possible market we can possibly get by stretching the theological statement of the Evangelical Publishing Association until it is distorted. However, we don't hold a theological position but we cannot publish known "liberal" theologians like Tillich and Reuther because they will offend and violate the EPA statement of faith. So please buy more products until we can find another hole in which to squeak through more suspect views while maintaining the integrity of the EPA statement. I would have more respect if the company just said we hold a certain theological position and that is the end of discussion.
Apparently you did not read Bob's post very well. Your interpretation is not even close to what he wrote. The EPA statement of faith applies to what Logos self-publishes, not what is republished.
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Rev Chris said:
Dan, please refrain from bashing other people. You have a different definition of what a "Christian" is than other people do, and it is inflammatory to call the largest group of believers in the world who claim that name to be, in fact, not Christian. Your disagreement is a theological one, and is what Bob has been trying to forbid in these forums. Take it elsewhere.
I totally agree, I am fast becoming sick and tired of the anti-Catholic rhetoric of some supposed Christians in these forums.
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Please readers, do not start a flame war. When you walk into any bookstore you read the back of the book, to get an idea as to whether or not you will purchase it. If you are not interested for whatever reason then you put it back.
We MUST NOT, SHOULD NOT ask Logos to do our thinking for us. Carefully consider, go to Amazon or google books or anywhere else and consider before you buy. If you do not like the product, call customer service and ask for a refund or credit.
Because one person does not want book (a), why deprive someone else from having it who desires it, in Logos format.
I say to Logos publish it all, let me decide what I want to buy. I do not want Logos to try and find books that they think I will want. I purchase books that I believe will add to my knowledge, even if there are some things that I do not believe.
My personal desire, Logos will have enough resources, that you can write a complete Masters Thesis, right from your library, if you can afford it of course.
Maybe, a monthly subscription so that you have access to the entire database when online.
I close with my signature:
Everything ever written or spoken published in Logos Bible Software.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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I agree with Jack. You need to read Bob's post carefully.
Rene Atchley said:but we cannot publish known "liberal" theologians like Tillich and Reuther because they will offend and violate the EPA statement of faith.
I do not think there would be any problem publishing Paul Tillich in Logos. If the Evangelical Publishing Association did not object to Bart Ehrman they either are not paying attention or they are not reading books, or maybe they are not as uptight as some people think they are. Whatever, embracing Tillich is a walk in the park compared to Ehrman's statements. Any real student of theology needs to know what each of them contributes to the dialogue. Logos is helping to educate people, not indoctrinate them.
Rene Atchley said:while maintaining the integrity of the EPA statement. I would have more respect if the company just said we hold a certain theological position and that is the end of discussion.
While I may even agree with the ECPA statement, I do not need them granting me permission to read a book. And if you will read Bob's posts carefully, he does talk freely about his personal theology. But he does not presume to decide theology for his employees. (But I bet you he prays for them!)
btw: I am eager to get Tillich in Logos too.[Y]
edit: Yeah, I know Bart only edited this one. But you never know about those agnostics! [6]
edit 2: If you read that ECPA statement for Bible publishers it says "we won't make disparaging remarks against the other" guys... That is all Bob is asking of us.
Question: Is it EPA? Or is it the ECPA?
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)
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Dan R. Eide said:
My concern is that eventually, Logos will become a secularized company that happens to offer Christian materials, and to me that is sad.
Pastor Dan R. EideIf I had my wish, Logos would offer every book that Amazon sells. Imagine being able to do searches and lists, etc., for all those books!!!
Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)
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Eric Weiss said:
If I had my wish, Logos would offer every book that Amazon sells. Imagine being able to do searches and lists, etc., for all those books!!!
Eric if I had my wish, every book, pamplet etc., well maybe not everyone would be published. Some sites I do not want to visit, neither some books and magazines.
I can hear the programmers groaning, thinking about all the new datatype, and linking needed to be created. I am satisfied with just Religion and Theology.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Dan R. Eide said:
My concern is that eventually, Logos will become a secularized company that happens to offer Christian materials, and to me that is sad.
Dan, I appreciate your concern, but do want to point out that Logos is, and has always been, a business. We have intentionally eschewed the label "ministry" or even "Christian company." The first because of our high regard for ministry as a calling, and the belief that it would be wrong to take on that label when we are in fact organized as a for-profit corporation. The second because people have souls, and companies don't.
I hope you'll find this post helpful: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/35165/267014.aspx#267014 -- we aren't trying to provide support for anything in particular beyond studying the Bible.
For what it's worth, we are legally and structurally more like Amazon than Focus on the Family. It's actually illegal for us to discriminate in hiring based on religion; I am legally not allowed to ask about people's faith in an interview. As a result, we have a diverse staff: I'm pretty that among our 230+ employees there are a few dozen evangelical denominations, some Catholics, at least one Jew (who has since left, after giving us a lot of help with Hebrew resources!) and even a few atheists. Practically speaking, we're more like ChristianBook.com (formerly CBD) than Amazon, in that we have a category focus ("about the Bible"), and not every book in the world (though I hear you asking, Lynden!). And we do have Christians in leadership and the goals of the leaders inform and influence the corporation.
(Please remember that I'm making a technical point about the company here, not a personal one. I still have a soul! :-) I just don't want to let anyone mistakenly label Logos a ministry, with all the implications and honor-in-the-calling that brings, when the company doesn't deserve that title. I do believe that ministry-the-function can be accomplished by people in organizations that are not "ministry organizations" -- but then it's the act of a person, not the organization.)
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Bob Pritchett said:
want to point out that Logos is, and has always been, a business. We have intentionally eschewed the label "ministry" or even "Christian company."
Unfortunately for you Dan a lot of people don't see this and treat you like a ministry.
Your point in the opening post of this thread is well made your mission, as a business, must be to make the resources available to aid study and not to limit this to a narrow doctrinal view no matter how right you personally believe that view is. Our responsibility as users is to recognise how these resources relate to what we believe doctrinally.
At a recent teaching session at our Leadership Training Centre one of the attendees asked how we could help him identify what was doctrinally safe to read. The facilitator answered that our role is not to dictate who or what they read but to give them the tools to determine this for themselves. In a later session on our Basis of Faith I was able to pick up this issue and explore it further with the students.
IMHO the problem is not that there are resources that might make people believe the wrong thing but that there are too many Christians who do not actually know what they believe!
My library is a varied one and I enjoy many of the resources that I 'disagree' with as much as I do those the ones that I agree with.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Graham Owen said:
IMHO the problem is not that there are resources that might make people believe the wrong thing but that there are too many Christians who do not actually know what they believe!
Far too many Church people have been told what to believe but have no comprehension of why they should believe it. I once taught a class on the triunity of God. One young man in the class, who was new to the Church, questioned everything. Some of the others resented him at first. Near the end of the sessions, one lady told me how valuable the class had been, especially with Carl's questioning. Her remark was especially enlightening: "All my life I have been told what to believe, now I know why I should."
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Bob Pritchett said:
I just don't want to let anyone mistakenly label Logos a ministry, with all the implications and honor-in-the-calling that brings, when the company doesn't deserve that title.
I think many confuse the terms because Logos is focused on tools related to Bible study and ministry. Logos is a blessing to those in ministry by providing tools that can be greatly used for their ministry.
I believe (although some disagree) that Logos operates as a business using both Christian principles and sound business principles. Publishing is a precarious business today. Many are struggling and some have not survived. Logos has an impressive track record of being a solid business that we can expect to be around for a long time.
I do not question the motives of the ownership and management the way that I might of a company whose sole purpose was profit by any means.
Keep up the great work.
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Jack Caviness said:
One young man in the class, who was new to the Church, questioned everything. Some of the others resented him at first. Near the end of the sessions, one lady told me how valuable the class had been, especially with Carl's questioning.
Aha! "Carl the Berean." He gets around a lot.
In addition to helping other students "Carl the Berean" keeps pastors/teachers on their toes. It is very gratifying to have a disciplining/mentoring relationship with such a truth-seeker.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Bohuslav Wojnar said:
I suggest your post is made easily available both in forums and in Logos Web or Blog.
[Y]
Grace & Peace,
Bill
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Eric, I love the rich and growing diversity of books offered in Logos and the flexibility I have in choosing books to download. My concern is the hiring of and providing material support to help propagate the gospel of a false religion by Logos. This is my primary concern The hiring of someone who is to help advance the Catholic religion. My view that Catholics are not Christian is not a new one and it flows not from simply my personal opinion, but flows from the Bible, theology, hermeneutics, apologetics and this view has been rightly held by Protestants for hundreds of years.
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Dear Rev Chris,
I would ask in advance for your grace. What I am about to say it may sound staccato and harsh and so, please grant me grace. Because I disagree that Mormons or JW’s who call themselves Christians and I believe otherwise does not mean that they are being bashed by me. Intolerance of voicing Christian opinions has been on the uptick. Am I now to be silent on this important vital issue? I cannot.
Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses call themselves Christian. Mormons are not Christian since they hold that Jesus was not God and Jesus and Satan were brothers. Jehovah Witnesses call themselves Christian and they say Jesus was not divine, did not raise physically from the dead and that Salvation is not by grace through faith alone. By these two cults own stated beliefs, they are not Christian. Yet they will espouse themselves Christian.
Catholics are non-Christian because they pray to dead people (they call saints or icons), something the Bible forbids. They also say that if a person has not been baptized in water they go to hell, thus making water baptism greater than believing in the finished work of Christ on the cross. They give their allegiance to a man (the Pope) who is infallible and inerrant in all that he says regarding the Bible. And the forgiveness of sins is achieved through confessing sins through man (the priest) and if their venial and/or mortal sins are not confessed and forgiven by them the individual goes to purgatory or hell.
Mormons have quite a strong number of adherents, like Catholics…is that inflammatory to say that Mormons are not Christian? Should we just accept anyone’s definition of what it means to be a Christian? Any standard of measure?
Again my concern is not and has never been in the books that Logos offers. I love the rich and growing diversity of books offered and the flexibility I have in choosing books. Perhaps offering categories for selecting “Evangelical”, “Pentecostal”, “Charismatic”, “Ecumenical”, etc. works would help some in finding the books they prefer easier to locate.
Nonprofits can have legal hiring obligations as well regarding hiring. My concern is not that Logos hire or not hire people who are non-Christian or even anti-Christian. My concern is the hiring of and providing material support to propagate the gospel of a false religion. This is my primary concern. The hiring of someone who is to help advance the Catholic religion.
My view that Catholics are not Christian is not a new one and it flows not from simply my personal opinion, but flows from the Bible, theology, hermeneutics, apologetics and this view has been rightly held by Protestants for hundreds of years.
I hope this helps clarify my concerns.
I do not want to come across as crass or sarcastic or mean spirited. But if you are a fellow ordained minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ perhaps Rev Chris you should review Systematic Theology 1 & 2, Hermeneutics and CARM.org is a good place to start to review Christian Apologetics.
Dan
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