SOOOO Slow.
I am using a brand new top of the line 17in MacBook Pro (which screams! in Snow Leopard) with 4gb of ram. I am using VMWare Fusion 3 (newest w/ Snow Leopard support) running XP SP3 and Logos 4 (not the Mac version). It is seriously slow. Everything about it.
Am I doing something wrong? I have allocated within VMWare Fusion for Fusion to use both processors and 3 gb of ram to try to speed things up... but no dice. What is needed to run this beast?
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Logos screams in Windows. Don't know why it groans on VMWare Fusion.
Chuck Lindsey said:What is needed to run this beast?
[Hesitates, and then quickly says]
Get a PC.
[Then, just as quickly runs away from all the apples thrown at him from dedicated Mac users.]
Seriously, there have been reports of L4 not running very well with VMWare. Others report it works great. Hopefully some Mac users will step in and help you out.
For future reference it might help attract Mac users by putting "Mac" somewhere in your subject line.
[Ow! Okay, who's still throwing apples?] [;)]
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Logos 4 uses Microsoft's .NET and WPF. WPF is a new display technology that's much more graphical, and not like the old Win32 system with GDI. It's possible this is where you're seeing the performance problem.
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Hi Chuck:
I also experienced Logos 4 being slow in Fusion 3. My specs are similar to yours (4 gigs ram, snow leopard) except that I am using WIndows 7.
You don't say but I assume you are using a virtual machine (file) vs. using fusion 3 with a boot camp installation.
I have much better performance after installing Windows using a bootcamp installation. VMWare Fusion 3 will then allow you to use the bootcamp installation (instead of a large file). The performance seems to be much better now when I run Windows in Fusion. That being said, I am typing this after booting directly to my bootcamp partition... and its faster than accessing the bootcamp partition through Fusion.
So speed wise:
Slowest speed: Fusion accessing Windows/Logos 4 that was installed in a virtual machine.
Medium speed: Using Fusion running in Snow Leopard to access Logos 4 on a bootcamp partition.
Fastest speed: Booting to a bootcamp partition and running windows "live" and not within Fusion or Parallels.
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Wow. I was coming on the forum to find out what in the world was wrong. It's not very useful when I use it through a virtual machine in VMware fusion. Its way too slow. So, it sounds like based on Bob's note above, this will not be fixed since its an architectural/programming issue. So, I have to use my pc at work or use the L4 alpha or use the Logos 1.2 for mac version. I feel like this keeps getting worse. I removed L3 from my virtual machine to make room for L4. Now, I sorely regret doing that.
sigh...
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I ran on VMWare 1.0 the whole way through beta for the past 7+weeks. It was a bit sow at times, but perfectly usable. Others have had good experiences as well once they adjusted their VMWare settings. No need to give up, just find some info on how to do the right setup.KevinJones said:Wow. I was coming on the forum to find out what in the world was wrong. It's not very useful when I use it through a virtual machine in VMware fusion. Its way too slow.
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I've had the same trouble but there is a way to speed things up:
In VMWare Fusion go to the virtual machine settings and disable 3d acceleration, then within your Windows OS open display settings, click advanced, go to the Troubleshoot tab and click Change Settings. Drop the Hardware Acceleration slider way down. This should improve performance quite a bit.
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A PC is..simply a personal Computer
A Mac is a PC, same as an IBM is a PC. or an Acer
I know you where just being smart but but a little clarity on the subject may help.
The only difference is the operating system
A correct answer would of been.. Please install Windows OS on a native (Bootcamp) partition and boot that way.
Don't use Virtualization. (actually on a side note just tried Parallels 5 VM and is notably faster than Fusion 3 VM)
I have a friend that uses an Apple Mac computer (MacbookPro and only runs WIndows OS they dont run OS X at all.
Sorry I just have to explain what a PC actually is. People don't get sucked into thinking otherwise. Feel free to buy an Apple Mac and install Linux and nothing else.
Feel free to Buy an IBM and install Linux as well.
A PC is NOT Windows, it's is a hardware platform based on the X86 Chip hardware and not dependent on what OS you install. There are dozens to choose from.
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Thanks guys... Joe do you have any recommended settings? Or is that listed somewhere?
Thank you.
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shaneblyth said:
Some education for A PC is..simply a personal Computer
I bet those "I'm a PC and I'm a Mac" commercials drive you nuts.
BTW, I agree that you're technically right. But I think I followed common usage. Or, you spoke classical and I spoke koine. Or... nah, I'm out of metaphors.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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I would do what Chris said. Unfortuneatly, I am not a pro at using VMWare. I installed it ONLY to Beta test, only ever used 1.0 because I did not need to upgrade, and I took it off as soon as Beta was done so I could make room to Alpha test the Mac.Chuck Lindsey said:Joe do you have any recommended settings? Or is that listed somewhere?
I have asked that Logos post an official FAQ based on user experience, but I know they are busy. Wish I could be more help brother.
Blessings,
Joe
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The problem is common usage is wrong and cause confusion.
Example I am buying an iPod yet you are buying a music player like a Sony that plays MP3's and other various formats. You go to the store and ask for an iPod and get sold what the person wasnt asking for.
On a side not I just installed Paralles 5 I have VMWare Fusion 3 as well. Running Windows 7 in a virtual machine and I am finding Paralles runs Windows 7 noticable smoother and faster than Fusion 3.
An example is trying to scroll a passage , smooth on Parallells 5 Win 7 combo. slow on Fusion 3 with saem Virtual Machine image of Win7
Spec on PC (wink) is MAcbook Pro 2.33ghz Core 2 Duo with 3 gb of Ram. VM are setup to use both cores and 50% of Ram in VMWare. Parallels seem to make it own mind up so I dont know what the actual setting are.
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Shane, i think you meant to say, "On a side note..." There is an 'e' at the end of that word. There are also several grammatical errors in your first post where you wanted to "educate" people on the proper use of the term "PC".shaneblyth said:On a side not I just installed
Here was my favorite from your first post,
... "I just being smart" ?? what??.shaneblyth said:I know you where just being smart but I just being smart but clarity helps
I guess there is room for all of us to learn, huh? :-)
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Thanks English is not my native tongue.
That being said being a computer tech maybe Geek speak is.
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shaneblyth said:
Thanks English is not my native tongue.
Now I'm intensely curious. I apologize, if you find this intrusive, but what is your native language?
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Shane,
The Mac/PC distinction is not what it once was, but the historic distinction is very real and common usage makes it quite acceptable to continue referring to them in PC/Mac terms.
PC is Personal Computer, yes, but it came into popular usage with the IBM PC which was in competition with other small computer makers, including the Apple II. IBM hit a gold mine by licensing its architecture, leading to computers that were IBM PC compatible, often themselves simply called PC's. The nomenclature was about the computer hardware. The term PC did not refer to any small computer for personal use but to computers that followed the IBM PC architecture. Apple clearly did not.
The hardware line between the PC and Apple/Mac world began to blur as computers shared more components and the line doesn't really exist anymore since all of the hardware found in a Mac could also be found in a PC. There are still some differences - IBM PC introduced the bios and Macs do not have a PC type bios while descendants of the IBM PC continue to have something similar to the original bios. Beyond that, the nomenclature still makes some sense, particularly since Apple only allows their OS to be run on their hardware so a distinction exists between computers that can run OS X and those that cannot (well, cannot legally, anyway).
That said, shane, come on. This is not a big deal. It is a very common distinction and people know what you mean when you refer to a PC vs a Mac. Man, you sound like such a PC!
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No problems. I kind of suspected that was the case. I was just having a little fun to keep it light brother :-)shaneblyth said:Thanks English is not my native tongue.
That being said being a computer tech maybe Geek speak is.
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I quote "Man, you sound like such a PC!"
Actually i am not a "Man" I am a woman. I didnt mean to start an argument I just don't like wise cracks and pokes based on miss information. End of story
Now back to the topic in this thread which is Soooo Slow.
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shaneblyth said:
I just don't like wise cracks and pokes based on miss information.
Well, hopefully as my historical summary demonstrated, the Mac/PC distinction is not misinformation.
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shaneblyth said:
I quote "Man, you sound like such a PC!"
In defense of my brother Chris, he should have put that in quotes. It's the sort of thing one American might say to another (regardless of gender). "Man" there, is an expression of surprise, or a term of emphasis.
English can be so confusing at times. As one who speaks another language (Spanish - now there's a beautiful language!), I don't envy anyone having to learn English as a second language. Sometimes it doesn't even make sense to us native speakers.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Joe Miller said:
I ran on VMWare 1.0 the whole way through beta for the past 7+weeks. It was a bit sow at times, but perfectly usable. Others have had good experiences as well once they adjusted their VMWare settings. No need to give up, just find some info on how to do the right setup.
Wish I had the same experience; Logos 4 Indexer crashes at every boot up of my VM (using VMWare Fusion 3/XP on a new Macbook Pro). I have allocated plenty of resources, followed the suggestions above (found them in the original blog post), but Indexer still crashes every time it starts. I guess I can try it in Boot Camp, but really didn't want to go that route. I can't wait until the Alpha turns to beta, rc, then final release. In the mean time, I think I'll go back to using 1.2.2 as my primary tool. This is just way too frustrating and is drawing my focus away from why I am trying to use the software in the first place.
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I would recommend installing windows in a bootcamp partition and then letting Fusion access it. If you have the HD space don't delete your VM until you test this config. Also try using 2GB of RAM instead of 3GB, it can actually be faster. Bob's comment about WPF and Fusion is right on. Check the forum's on VMWare's site about graphical issues with Fusion and 3D acceleration and WPF apps from Microsoft. You can also try to disable 3D acceleration and see if you get better performance. Sounds weird, but it can help. Still the best config is bootcamp (with XP or 7 NOT Vista).
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Reuben Evans said:
Still the best config is bootcamp (with XP or 7 NOT Vista).
I've had no problems with Vista.
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Are you a Macbook Pro with multi-touch like the OP? We've seen issues with the drivers for the multi-touch trackpad with the drivers that came with 10.5. There are some things you can do to make it a bit better. But the trackpad works fine in XP and 7 (not officially supported), with the drivers that came with 10.6 (haven't tried 10.6/Vista/Fusion3 - with a multi-touch trackpad).
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That helped a bit, but it's still running really slow.
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Sorry, that was in response to Chris. I'm actually running XP in a VirtualBox inside of Ubuntu. By the way, VirtualBox was a marked improvement from VmWare, so you might try that (http://www.virtualbox.org). I'm curious if a Windows 7 virtual environment would work better.
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Alan,
was virtual box an improvement over Fusion 2 or 3?
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Actually, this is a little frustrating. Tried a couple of other things, but it honestly looks like it's just having trouble accessing the information quickly. I had never been one to cry for a linux version because I was happy running Libronix in a Windows Box, but I'm starting to wish for cross compatibility. Maybe someday when they do something browser based (or when the Google OS based on Linux comes out and changes the market share)
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Reuben Evans said:
Alan,
was virtual box an improvement over Fusion 2 or 3?
Reuben, VirtualBox was much better for me than Fusion 3, but I'm not on a Mac, so I don't know if Sun's tech works as well on that platform.
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Hey guys, I've spent some time on this today, and I was able to get some results by running Logos in a VirtualBox with 128 MB of RAM allocated to the environment and 3D acceleration on. Then I installed DirectX 9, which the system requirements make mention of (make sure you have the vbox additions installed). This seemed to help a bit. I'm not sure if you can run DirectX in VMware, but you might try it. Tonight I'm going to try putting Windows 7 in a box and seeing if it runs better. Again, the recommended system is Vista or 7, so maybe there's something in the program that likes the next gen software better. I will let you know the results.
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sorry, I should clariy, 128 to the video RAM, I've got 1.5 GB of system RAM
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I'm running on a Mac Pro using Parallels 5 and Win 7 64bit. Haven't seen any problems with speed. My Pro has dual 3.2 ghz processors with 13gb of ram.
I did notice some slowness before I upgraded to v5 of Parallels. v5 is Snow Leopard and Windows 7 compatible/
In Passage Guide I do turn off SermonCentral.com and PowerPointSermons.com to stop them from accessing the web. Even though I have a fiber connection large amounts of data transfer on load up can create slowdowns.
I would try shutting down any web you don't need. I don't think the computer is the problem.
Mac Pro Dual 3.2Ghz Intel Xeon Processors; 14Gb Ram; nVidia 285 GTX 1 Gb Video Ram; 1Tb Main Drive; Parallels 5.0.2; Mac OS X 10.6.3
Titus 3:5-7
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Oh, yea. I am running an nVidia 285GTX video card with 1 gb video ram.
Mac Pro Dual 3.2Ghz Intel Xeon Processors; 14Gb Ram; nVidia 285 GTX 1 Gb Video Ram; 1Tb Main Drive; Parallels 5.0.2; Mac OS X 10.6.3
Titus 3:5-7
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Alan Gerling said:
Reuben, VirtualBox was much better for me than Fusion 3, but I'm not on a Mac, so I don't know if Sun's tech works as well on that platform.
Alan,
I'm really not sure how you can compare VMWare Fusion to VirtualBox on Linux since VMWare Fusion will not run on Linux, it is only for the Mac. VMWare Workstation works on Linux but it is a different product.
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Hey Chris, sorry, didn't realize the difference. Guess I assumed the same backend, but alas I was mistaken.
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I have found that if you turn off the 3D option in the display Logos works much better in VMware 3.
I am using Windows 7 64bit on a mid 09 MacBook Pro with 4gb of ram. Have it working pretty smoothly now.
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I just have to get this off my chest.
I've never been this frustrated with a piece of software.
I'm running L4 in Fusion 3 and it's slow as molasses.
L4 in Mac is pretty much unusable, but it does jack the CPU to the max with interminable indexing.
I'm regretting the money I've put into this program, but I am impressed with the patience of the saints here.
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I am using Parallels 5 and having a very good experience with speed. There is a trial download and conversion of your VMWare if you are so inclined to give it a try.
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Was your virtual machine built by Fusion... in other words, did you install windows through Fusion? Or did you convert a bootcamp install?
Have you turned off the 3D acceleration option in Fusions "Settings"? That makes a huge difference. Also keep it at using 1 processor even if you have more, that will keep things speedy on your Mac side.
Have you given Fusion at least 2gb of ram?
Have you tried setting Logos 4 priority to "high" in windows?
Have you turned "Hardware acceleration" down in Windows?
These all help.
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I just tried Parallels 5 and it's no faster.
Turning 3D off helped a little bit.
For my own sanctification and sanity, I'll return to the competition until this gets resolved.
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Way back at the start of this thread, the original replier said, "Logos screams in Windows." Hah! Do a forum search for "Slow" and see how many PC users are having the same problem with Logos 4 behaving like molasses. Don't assume it's all because of virtual machines.
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