Pseudepigrapha
Hello all,
I am considering buying the greek Pseudepigrapha and the Charlesworth english translation of the same.
For you who have these resources how valuable do you find them for biblical studies? and in the analysis view does the english translation always appear? as it does for Philo and Josephus.
Thanks.
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Could someone PLEASE give me any help on this!
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I find them invaluable, but then I study Church History and the History of Christianity. Whether you will find them helpful or not depends upon what kind of Bible study you are doing. They can provide good background material to help understand the language of the Bible. There are also a few books within the Pseudepigrapha that have been considered by many Christians for nearly two millenia as useful reading. There are also some that are most assuredly not within the mainstream for Christianity.
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Peace be with you.
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Thats great James, thanks for the information. I would probably use them not so much for historical reference but to see how a NT word is used, are they useful for that?
Robert.
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Hi RGP
The greek pseudepigraphia is absolutely a 'must' if you're doing word studies. And if you have pocket change, add to that the LXX, Philo, Josephus and Apostolic Fathers greek interlinears (most of the latter not having the english glosses but it's the usage that's important). The Logos word studies tool REALLY SHINES when you have a series of writings that bracket the NT (in a limited way). I'll be interested to see how Logos implements the coming papyri libraries.
I'm reading the Hatch collection right now and one of the books discusses the relation of the NT greek and theological usage to these other sources. The irony was that the discussion took place just a year before the discovery of the large amounts of Egyptian papyri. But the discussion is still interesting in how the NT doesn't match as much as you'd expect.
Although Charleworth is obviously the best on the PG, don't forget Nickelsburg: Jewish Literature Between the Bible and the Mishnah
The title of Nickelsburg is a little confusing, since 'the Bible' is the OT, and the discussion is the jewish writings in-between.
http://www.logos.com/product/5103/jewish-literature-between-the-bible-and-the-mishnah
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I didn't answer all of your questions.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'like Philo and Josephus'. My copies don't have glosses for these. Of course, I do have the english translations, and similarly for the PG (but not in interlinear format).
In the Wiki, you'll find example pages of the PG: http://wiki.logos.com/Resource$3a_OT_Greek_Pseudepigrapha_with_Morphology
You can also look at the other interlinear formatted resources. I'm going to have to add Philo and Josephus.
Before I forget, Nickelsburg is discussion, while Charlesworth (and Charles) are both. Nickelsburg's value is in positioning the texts in their historical context (he presents them in their estimated time of writing along with events occurring at the time, and parallels in the OT)."If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Thank you Denise for that, I mentioned the analysis view, as I am sure you are aware when we run a morphological search we can choose this option, in doing so for say a greek new testament word if we have the morphologically tagged Philo and Josephus and also have the english versions of the same in the analysis view popups with the english appear if we hover over them please see the screenshot, does the Pseudepigrapha greek and english do the same?
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RGP said:
I mentioned the analysis view, as I am sure you are aware when we run a morphological search we can choose this option, in doing so for say a greek new testament word if we have the morphologically tagged Philo and Josephus and also have the english versions of the same in the analysis view popups with the english appear if we hover over them please see the screenshot, does the Pseudepigrapha greek and english do the same?
I have not been able to get English hover as I don't see a matching English translation that Morph search can use, like Philo has for example. So if I am missing something please enlighten me too :-)
What I do, you can easily set up a Layout that has your search window, Greek, and English linked, like the following:
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RGP, Dominick ... the PG don't match up the sources much beyond Enoch, etc. where apparently there's historical tagging. Here's a screen shot.
You can barely see at the bottom that most refs don't have an english hover; only the greek
."If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Dominick, Denise that is very helpful.
Dominick if you can link together these texts the way you have, it might also be possible to have the english translation appear when you hover over a popup in analysis view?
For this to be the case with Philo and Josephus I think the english text must be above the greek in the prioritization panel, maybe that should also be the case with the PG?
Anyway thanks I think I will go ahead and purchase these resources.
Robert.
Edit.
Oops I see what you mean Denise about their being no reference to hover over, so it is not possible to see the english of the pseudepigrapha in analysis view, but Dominicks layout looks to work very well.
Thanks again.
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RGP said:
Dominick if you can link together these texts the way you have, it might also be possible to have the english translation appear when you hover over a popup in analysis view?
I don't think so, at least I have never seen how to do that. The reason you have English popup with Philo for example, is the resource has both Greek/morphology and English. The Pseudepigrapha resource that contains morphology does not contain any English.
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Dominick ... I'm probably getting my words confused here, but Philo doesn't have english glosses (not mine anyway)?
If I were to guess, early in Logos' LIbronix life, they assigned verses to Philo/Josephus and so can do a lookup without english glosses.
I'd assume PG was not versified in the same way, except for Enoch and maybe a few others. The reference is to Charlesworth's Enoch. I don't see anything peculiar about Charlesworth's Enoch vs other PG, so I'd assume the Lexham resource only has verse connections for Enoch. This is earlier than my time, but I notice Libronix had an early Enoch standalone.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Good news Dominick, I just purchased and downloaded the Pseudepigrapha greek and english and I ran a morphological search and choose analysis view and I hovered over the reference and the english translation appeared, please see the screen shot
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Great! ! On mine I get the Ante-Nicene Fathers copy of Testament of Abraham due to my Prioritization. You can make the Prioritization different for a given resource through Advanced Prioritization, which I may do in this instance.
I learned something too, thanks!
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Denise Barnhart said:
Hi RGP
The greek pseudepigraphia is absolutely a 'must' if you're doing word studies. And if you have pocket change, add to that the LXX, Philo, Josephus and Apostolic Fathers greek interlinears (most of the latter not having the english glosses but it's the usage that's important). The Logos word studies tool REALLY SHINES when you have a series of writings that bracket the NT (in a limited way). I'll be interested to see how Logos implements the coming papyri libraries.
I'm reading the Hatch collection right now and one of the books discusses the relation of the NT greek and theological usage to these other sources. The irony was that the discussion took place just a year before the discovery of the large amounts of Egyptian papyri. But the discussion is still interesting in how the NT doesn't match as much as you'd expect.
Although Charleworth is obviously the best on the PG, don't forget Nickelsburg: Jewish Literature Between the Bible and the Mishnah
The title of Nickelsburg is a little confusing, since 'the Bible' is the OT, and the discussion is the jewish writings in-between.
http://www.logos.com/product/5103/jewish-literature-between-the-bible-and-the-mishnah
I have The Apostolic Fathers, Philo, Josephus and the OT Pseudepigrapha in the Greek (as well as the LXX, of course), and they're great for word searches, but I hadn't heard of Nickelsburg. I followed your link and saw it for $30 at Logos and thought maybe I ought to check into it, but I wanted to glance at it first (I know there's a 30-day "trial" period).
So I visited the local used bookstore today (one of the best in the country - if you're ever in Denton, TX, you must visit Recycled Books on the Square downtown), and remembered the book, and there actually was a copy in the Judaica section, the 2005 2nd revised edition, with the unopened Libronix CD ROM in the back cover - for $10! So I bought it, installed Libronix, etc., followed the instructions to sync my licenses, and the next time I opened Logos 4, it downloaded the Logos4 file for the book.
Hopefully when The Dead Sea Scrolls: A New Translation by Abegg, Martin G., Wise, Michael O. is finally published in Logos the links in Nickelsburg to the DSS documents will actually work.Thanks for the book suggestion!
Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)
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Eric just to make sure you got it all, there should be 3 resources:
Jewish Literature between the Bible and the Mishnah
Jewish Literature between the Bible and the Mishnah: Images
Jewish Literature between the Bible and the Mishnah: Stdy Guide
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Dominick Sela said:
Eric just to make sure you got it all, there should be 3 resources:
Jewish Literature between the Bible and the Mishnah
Jewish Literature between the Bible and the Mishnah: Images
Jewish Literature between the Bible and the Mishnah: Stdy Guide
Thanks. Yes, all three are there, as well as over the Internet via Biblia.com.
It seems the linking isn't complete - e.g., some of the Pseudepigrapha references don't come up, though a lot of them do.
Also, I need to figure out how to make Logos default to my Charlesworth OT Pseudepigrapha instead of R. H. Charles' editions/translations.
Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)
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