Open letter to Logos

Dear Logos,

As you know, you as a company have chosen to create minimal help files in the Logos 4 product and to rely on Morris Proctor and forum users to create more detailed help. You have also created a number of practical application videos which are supplemented by forum users, John Fallahee and Morris Proctor. In general, this documentation process seems to work fairly smoothly. Together with the forums it appears most users get the help they need.

However, there is one gaping hole that proves very frustrating for some of us. This is documentation for questions like:

What are the definitions for the items in the type field of the library?
What is the source of the cross-references? [We did get an answer to this]
What is the source of interesting words?
What tags are expected for each resource type offered for Personal books? [We found some options offered are not actually supported]
What is the source & category definitions for Tooman and Mackie genre coding?
What library types are effected by prioritizing?

I would like to suggest that this type of data needs to be made available - perhaps by Logos answering such questions on a wiki page or by adding the information to the help files. Being unable to obtain this information leaves some data meaningless or we spend hours trying (sometimes without success) to reconstruct what the data must mean. Or one becomes frustrated trying to guess the "magic" of a particular PB resource type only to discover they aren't supported. I hate being given choices I can't use.

Signed,

One happy and sometimes not so happy Logos 4 user.

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Comments

BillS

this type of data needs to be made available

[Y] +1

I'd add that the old model of help file need no longer be used... why not make Help into a PB that's auto-downloaded & accessed under the same button? That way it wouldn't take a software update to update the help file. [:)]

Brother Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/281117#Comment_281117

why not make Help into a PB that's auto-downloaded & accessed under the same button? That way it wouldn't take a software update to update the help file.

We see this happening ad hoc with the excellent work done by Steve Clark et al over in the Files forum. But yes, it becomes outdated as quickly as a change to the wiki occurs... and lets face it, the wiki really is the de facto reference manual for logos. So! Yes, it would be absolutely spot on for Logos to roll all that lovely "how-to" into a PB or regular Logos book that is updated regularly.

Bob Pritchett

What are the definitions for the items in the type field of the library?
What is the source of the cross-references? [We did get an answer to this]
What is the source of interesting words?
What tags are expected for each resource type offered for Personal books? [We found some options offered are not actually supported]
What is the source & category definitions for Tooman and Mackie genre coding?
What library types are effected by prioritizing?

We made up the types. The original plan started with the type field used in Dublin Core metadata, and we added new sub-types as we needed. I'll try to post our internal list if I can find it. But it's not any official standard -- it's something designed to help internal features of our software work.

Here's a list someone built of other people's use of the DC type system, which demonstrates the flexibility (and messiness) of the system: http://andrew.triumf.ca/TYPE.html

The Interesting Words are derived from an algorithm. We look for words that appear in this text with a frequency dissimilar to the frequency at which they appear in neighboring passages.

I'm not sure what you're asking about Personal Book tags.

Tooman and Mackie are the sources. :-) We asked them to do the analyses, and they did. I believe they each wrote an introductory/explanatory document, which I thought we'd shipped in the software, but maybe not. I'll try to hunt it down.

I'm not sure what you're asking about library types; prioritization is just used anytime we need to pick a book of any time -- we pick the first of the type in priority order.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/281435#Comment_281435

Thank you Bob - that's very helpful.

The two questions I didn't ask clearly intended to ask:

This is what we've discovered and documented in the wiki - we'd (or at least me) would like to be able to complete it:

Resource type requirements

Ancient Manuscript:
Apparatus:
Bible:
- create milestones for each verse
- use Fields to separate Bible text from verse numbers and headings, etc. Punctuation may safely be included; maybe footnote marks as well. Use Text Compare to see what is showing up in your PB book. For more see Bohuslav’s examples
- If you want your TOC entries (Chapters, Book titles, Pericope headings) to be searchable as a Heading field you can enclose them with {{field-on:Heading}} / {{field-off:Heading}} tags.
- Bibles are not fully working in Guides and Tools.
Bible Commentary:
- You need to mark text which comments on a verse with a milestone like [[@Bible:jn 1:1-18]]
- If your comment covers different passages then put milestones on successive lines
- Commentaries as defined by Logos comment on every verse
Bible Concordance:
Bible Cross-Reference Index:
Bible Harmony:
Bible Notes: see Bible Commentary
- Unlike a commentary, Logos defines this as not commenting on every verse.
Calendar Devotional:
- requires tag in the format of [[@dayofyear.mm.dd]] e.g. [[@dayofyear.06.04]].
Cross-Reference Index:
Dictionary:
- requires tag in the format of [[@Headword:Your_Item]] e.g. Sin[[@Headword:Sin]].
Encyclopedia:
Grammar:
Journal:
Lectionary:
- requires tag in the format of [[@ymd.year.mm.dd]] e.g. [[@ymd.2011.06.04]].
Lexicon:
Magazine:
Manual:
Monograph: no special requirements
Thesaurus:

The second question I tried to ask I think you've answered. It sounds as if it is useful to prioritize every type of resource ... with subdivisions for Greek, Hebrew etc. It would still be useful to know what Logos means by "Encyclopedia", "Commentary", "Bible Commentary" etc. so that we can create our PB's in the right categories and prioritize them correctly

Knowing that Tooman and Mackie did the work for you is very good to know - I've looked for the source under their names on and off for at least five years.

Again, thanks for your time ... and thanks for a PB that is miles ahead of the old PBB.

Graham Owen

...company have chosen to create minimal help files in the Logos 4 product and to rely on Morris Proctor

With this in mind, I wonder if the day will come when the Morris Proctor products are included in the high end packages.

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/281446#Comment_281446

It would still be useful to know what Logos means by "Encyclopedia", "Commentary", "Bible Commentary" etc.

I've added some definitions to the wiki page, and in particular, a link to this post: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/24033.aspx

Brother Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/281557#Comment_281557

...company have chosen to create minimal help files in the Logos 4 product and to rely on Morris Proctor

With this in mind, I wonder if the day will come when the Morris Proctor products are included in the high end packages.

Graham, I like the way you think. [;)] And, I love Mo's stuff (having attended boot camp, bought the manuals (all of them), and the L3 DVDs). He has a winsome teaching style that is (for me) conducive to learning, and I'd like to see more from him. However, MPseminars is a separate company from Logos, and although Mo is endorsed by Logos as their (only?) certified trainer, I'd be surprised to see Logos absorb his company.... effectively making Mo a Logos staff member.... Hmmmm...

By the way, you might want to take a look at John Fallahee's interactive Logos training material also. Great material at a truly reasonable price.

Graham Owen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/281565#Comment_281565

MPseminars is a separate company

As are Thomas Nelson, Zondervan, IVP, etc. my suggestion would require that Logos pay a royalty to provide the material.

ook at John Fallahee's interactive Logos training material also

Yes I have and I would have suggested that it be included if the relationship with Logos seemed as strong as the one with MPS.

The serious point in this is that there is a need for Logos to improve the quality of the supplied user documentation or to include 3rd party materials with the high end packages to fill the gap.

Brother Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/281574#Comment_281574

there is a need for Logos to improve the quality of the supplied user documentation or to include 3rd party materials with the high end packages to fill the gap.

[Y]