Dont call it BETA!
I am observing a troubling pattern with Logos. But first - let's define our terms:
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Pre-alpha
Pre-alpha refers to all activities performed during the software project prior to testing. These activities can include requirements analysis, software design, software development and unit testing.
In typical open source development, there are several types of pre-alpha versions. Milestone versions include specific sets of functions and are released as soon as the functionality is complete.
Alpha
The alpha phase of the release life cycle is the first phase to begin software testing. In this phase, developers generally test the software using white box techniques. Additional validation is then performed using black box or gray box techniques, by another testing team. Moving to black box testing inside the organization is known as alpha release.
Alpha software can be unstable and could cause crashes or data loss.
The exception to this is when the alpha is available publicly (such as a
pre-order bonus), in which developers normally push for stability so
that their testers can test properly. External availability of alpha
software is uncommon in proprietary software. However, open source software, in particular, often have publicly available alpha versions, often distributed as the raw source code of the software.
The alpha phase usually ends with a feature freeze, indicating that no more features will be added to the software. At this time, the software is said to be feature complete.
Beta
Beta (named after the second letter of the Greek alphabet) is the
software development phase following alpha. It generally begins when the
software is feature complete. The focus of beta testing is reducing impacts to users, often incorporating usability testing. The process of delivering a beta version to the users is called beta release and this is typically the first time that the software is available outside of the organization that developed it.
Some software is kept in perpetual beta — where new features and functionality is continually added to the software without establishing a firm "final" release.
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The trouble I am observing is Logos perpetually throwing a solution together without real consideration for design and usability. What they call beta, should be called Alpha or pre-alpha. Let's call a spade a spade, shall we?
Another big problem I am having is spending so much time to "beta-test" even things that are supposed to be working by now: basic PB features for Foreign languages, typos in resources, Vyrso website cart, downloading resources for offline use in Android, etc., etc. I will give Logos credit where credit is due, for the most part issues were acknowledged and fixed quickly.
Although Logos claims that they provide "free" software, their perpetual-beta cycle is too costly for me in terms of my time.The truth is, their "engine" does cost money to the customer (via more expensive resources) and as such, please design it with the end users in mind. One size doesn't fit all, so create options for users with different needs (highlights in a hidden file, highlights in last notefile, etc.) and not in Beta 5 but since the very beginning. There is absolutely no reason for rushing a feature that receives a huge outcry on the forums.
and hire a designer.
Comments
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[Y]Vladimir Lukyanov said:The trouble I am observing is Logos perpetually throwing a solution together without real consideration for design and usability. What they call beta, should be called Alpha or pre-alpha. Let's call a spade a spade, shall we?
Another big problem I am having is spending so much time to "beta-test" even things that are supposed to be working by now: basic PB features for Foreign languages, typos in resources, Vyrso website cart, downloading resources for offline use in Android, etc., etc. I will give Logos credit where credit is due, for the most part issues were acknowledged and fixed quickly.
Although Logos claims that they provide "free" software, their perpetual-beta cycle is too costly for me in terms of my time.The truth is, their "engine" does cost money to the customer (via more expensive resources) and as such, please design it with the end users in mind. One size doesn't fit all, so create options for users with different needs (highlights in a hidden file, highlights in last notefile, etc.) and not in Beta 5 but since the very beginning. There is absolutely no reason for rushing a feature that receives a huge outcry on the forums.
and hire a designer.
I agree!!!!
There is no doubt about it, the way Logos has designed L4 is one of the most expensive ways to design a program, and we, the consumers, pay for this poor planning by paying higher prices for the recourses.
It has been said many many many many times that Logos does not know how their users are using their software. Bob even asked once {something like}, "Are you using {if I remember correctly} notes in a way that we did not design them for?" The answer was yes. They seemed confused that people were storing more than just sermons in the sermon add-in for L3.
If Logos would have designed it correctly in the first place, we would not need a sermon add-in for L4. We could use a note file called sermons, and have tags that would store the various metadata (location, date, etc...) about it. We do not need clippings AND notes; they do the same thing from the program side of things (they store text data). Just think how much more Logo's consumers would be enjoying their software if they would have combined notes and clippings from the beginning (people would not be yelling at Logos for notes to have tags, clippings to be collapsed, and we would have an easy way to store sermons).
A lot of planning and a lot of testing upfront = a better product = more happy customers = larger revenue.
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If the Beta Update Channel is problematic for you, you can just switch over to the Stable Update Channel.
The Logos Wiki tells you how to do that: http://wiki.logos.com/The_Logos_4_Beta_Program
You can also contact Bob Pritchett, the CEO of Logos, directly at Bob@Logos.com (I think that is his email address). You may even be able to find his direct phone number on the forums somewhere. I'm sure if you have good ideas on how to correctly develop software he'd be happy to hear them.
Better yet, there seem to be six software developer openings at Logos right now. Two deal with testing the software. Why don't you apply for one of those? It might be easier getting your ideas put into action if you're actually helping with development and not just some random person talking on the internet.
Here they are: http://www.logos.com/about/careers0 -
[Y][Y]
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Well, now ... quite a number of forum members were grousing that they hadn't seen a 'beta' in ages. Maybe they should have been saying 'an alpha in ages'.
I won't claim decades of experience with Logos, but it seems to me their development is closer to a family affair. Some ideas. Unique implementations. Working with existing customers (most on the forum). More changes. Not the cold, tightly controlled world of larger software companies.
And normally I'd agree here (though most of my frustration hasn't been with the process, but rather the end product). But, it's still a small group trying to giving cutting edge results?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Hmm.
I still think Logos' beta releases are generally more stable than Microsoft 'gold' releases.
That aside, software industry practices vary widely regarding alpha, beta, etc. Definitions of these terms are generally defined by the company that uses them.
Logos has not changed the way it releases alpha (Mac releases) or beta in the years I've been using it (including during Libronix days). When it develops a new feature, or new work-flow it develops it releases a beta for testing. I applaud Logos for their responsiveness to their customers during the beta phase, and even the post-beta phase to add or alter features that users find helpful. Few major software companies do that. While it may make development more expensive, it makes their product better. Their sales numbers and customer loyalty prove that, I think.
This latest beta is no exception. It's a bit rough around the edges, but by and large it's stable. Very few beta releases in the last 10 years have actually broken the program enough to where it became non-functional. That's impressive.
As a long-time beta tester here, and a sometime beta tester for other programs, I think Logos does a pretty good job with what they do, and I'm confident enough to stay in the beta program.
YMMV
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Greg Masone said:
If the Beta Update Channel is problematic for you, you can just switch over to the Stable Update Channel.
The Logos Wiki tells you how to do that: http://wiki.logos.com/The_Logos_4_Beta_Program
[Y]
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Vladimir Lukyanov said:
The alpha phase usually ends with a feature freeze, indicating that no more features will be added to the software. At this time, the software is said to be feature complete.
Logos have alpha, beta and nightly channels (except, of course, only the beta is public). When Logos release an early beta to us, they may well have got to the stage where all the features have been added to the alpha (but aren't working properly). The guidelines on Wikipedia (and that's all they are) don't mean that every planned features must be complete in a beta, they just mean that you don't add entirely new features once the beta is underway.
Bob Pritchett said:The biggest problem seems to be terminology
-- everyone has a different meaning for "alpha", "beta", etc. Basically,
we use "alpha" for things that are "far from finished" and "beta" for
anything that's not "released". And once the product is released -- like
4.0 -- we only ever use "beta" for subsequent releases of
not-yet-finished incremental releases.The model that Logos themselves follow is much closer to this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_early,_release_often and in that model beta and alpha are used somewhat differently.
The quote from Bob given above can be reached from the first few links at http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Speaks#Technical_Practices - bear in mind that the posts are quite old though.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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I think several of the above posters (on both sides of the issue) have valid points. I,in fact, straddle both sides of fence depending upon the issue.
- Is Logos responsive to the user? yes and no - they implemented notes in a way that did not respond to the complaints about notes in L3 - I'm thinking specifically of the request to attach a note to multiple references. The request required a simple paired key file which clearly is not in the current implementation. However, they did bring back some features that people howled about at the expense of delaying promised features. Unfortunately my mind is foggy so I can't think of the primary example. But we have just received the ability to specify My Content for a search - a long wait for a feature that should have been anticipated in the original design.
- Do betas appear to be legitimate betas? yes and no - they appear more like a prototype than a designed product because their behavior shows a lack of inheritance structure and encapsulation that one would expect in a designed beta product. An example: the expand/contract feature was added to notes but not clippings when one would expect clippings to be a subset of notes. Or the original notes in the PG/EG had a very small maximum size - one would expect them to share the same features as standard notes - they are a subset that differs only in what they are linked to. Yes, Logos has produced reasonably stable betas and I can understand why they push out as betas what other companies might call alphas.
- Like many successful software companies Logos has a focus on the cutting edge which currently has everything to do with multi-platform and mobile devices. They are approaching this side of their product line in an appropriate manner. I am less sure that they are providing the bread-and-butter functions for the average user. Why? Because what I get for my money in resources is equivalent to a band of grad students working for a research prof. I get (a) a nice search capability, (b) a nice linkage between resources and (c) lots of crib sheets for morphology, syntax, genre etc. All very useful but to me just a sliver of what value-added features computers could provide.
In fairness, I should admit that notes, templates and collaboration are the features most important to me in Bible software. I've waited a long time and am still waiting with diminishing hope. The statistics Logos captures on my use, say nothing about how I want to use the system. They say a great deal about how the limitations force me to use the system - but Logos has no way of knowing that.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
In fairness, I should admit that notes, templates and collaboration are the features most important to me in Bible software. I've waited a long time and am still waiting with diminishing hope. The statistics Logos captures on my use, say nothing about how I want to use the system. They say a great deal about how the limitations force me to use the system - but Logos has no way of knowing that.
[Y][Y][Y][Y][Y][Y][Y][Y][Y][Y]
collaboration not quite as high on the list for me - but still it as being important - Logos attempted collaboration with Remote Notes in L3 but it never really worked - the way it was implemented I think was a big problem - but that's for days past on the now defunct newsgroups
Could agree more with your assessment of the value of user statistics - hopefully uservoice and these forums plug some of the gap you highlight although I suspect far from fully filling the gap.
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MJ. Smith said:
The statistics Logos captures on my use, say nothing about how I want to use the system. They say a great deal about how the limitations force me to use the system - but Logos has no way of knowing that.
If this doesn't hit it home... I couldn't agree more!
[Y]
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Anthony H said:MJ. Smith said:
The statistics Logos captures on my use, say nothing about how I want to use the system. They say a great deal about how the limitations force me to use the system - but Logos has no way of knowing that.
If this doesn't hit it home... I couldn't agree more!
[Y]
My mind immediately began to wonder how L4 collects statistics... since it's in the cloud, it's probably automatic, now, eh? We probably can't opt out as we could with L3? Don't remember seeing that option anywhere... Just wondering... [:O]
Grace & Peace,
Bill
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There is a Send Feedback option under Program Settings. Would that be it?
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Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Vladimir Lukyanov said:
The alpha phase usually ends with a feature freeze, indicating that no more features will be added to the software. At this time, the software is said to be feature complete.
That would make Internet Explorer (and everything else Microsoft releases) alpha. Wouldn't it?
And Linux.....
Vladimir Lukyanov said:One size doesn't fit all, so create options for users with different needs
Then we will end up with Logos Lite, Logos Basic, Logos Standard, Logos Deluxe, Logos SE, and totally confuse the market like Microsoft did. Everyone will be asking, "Now which version of Logos has Reverse-Interlinears?" and "Oh, I can't do Word Studies because I only have the Basic Edition."
Vladimir Lukyanov said:There is absolutely no reason for rushing a feature that receives a huge outcry on the forums.
I totally agree! But that would fly in the face of your previous issue. It is the "Have it your way. We just want everybody to be happy!" approach that is bogging down faster progress.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Denise Barnhart said:
I won't claim decades of experience with Logos, but it seems to me their development is closer to a family affair. Some ideas. Unique implementations. Working with existing customers (most on the forum). More changes. Not the cold, tightly controlled world of larger software companies.
I like the family atmosphere of Logos. I feel half-way related to the Pritchett family. [:O] My salesman, Dave Kaplan is more like a school chum; always cheerful and encouraging. My fellow MVPs and forum regulars are like extended family. I have no similar relationship with any other company I do business with.
That is an accurate statement. Bob keeps asking for qualified people to join Logos. The unqualified crowd are a dime-a-dozen. The job requirements are a little stringent for most positions at Logos. The only thing harder than recruiting highly qualified people is keeping them. I miss Stephen Smith's involvement in the social networking department.Denise Barnhart said:But, it's still a small group trying to giving cutting edge results?
There are some amazing people on the Logos payroll. I won't name the programmers and project developers. They may ask for a raise. [^o)] Then we would have to pay more for resources.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Andrew McKenzie said:
Could agree more with your assessment of the value of user statistics - hopefully uservoice and these forums plug some of the gap you highlight although I suspect far from fully filling the gap.
UserVoice is a nice gesture but I almost get the feeling it is only a gesture. I can watch a title go through Community Pricing to Pre-Pub-to Shipping faster than I have seen anything graduate from UserVoice. And the user end of it looks more like Twitter with the limited view of a bigger picture.
The statistical reporting will always be suspect. The greater a sample, the more reliable the interpretation. Our Quality Control department at GM used statistical process control and did win the JD Power award many times. But there were occasions where our plant had serious things slip through. If Logos relied on my usage statistics they may think the notes functions are perfect. I never switched from One-Note to keeping notes in Logos. For years, I kept handwritten notes in paper notebooks. I also rarely do anything with Hebrew. So, my statistics not only do not reflect how I want to use Logos in the future, they don't even give a clear picture how I use it now.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super Tramp said:
UserVoice is a nice gesture but I almost get the feeling it is only a gesture. I can watch a title go through Community Pricing to Pre-Pub-to Shipping faster than I have seen anything graduate from UserVoice.
I would expect resources to have a shorter development cycle than software feature ... and certainly there is a correlation between uservoice ranking and completion - not one-for-one naturally because the requests are the ultimate in black-box priorities.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Personally, I have been, and still am, extremely happy to have a voice in the development of the best Bible study tool that has ever existed. I don't care if it's called alpha or beta. I am just very thankful for the program, and for a platform to give input before features and direction are finalized. Being a beta tester is optional... I see it as great privilege and blessing! Thank you Logos team for listening!!
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Wyn Laidig said:
Being a beta tester is optional... I see it as great privilege and blessing! Thank you Logos team for listening!!
[Y]
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Wyn Laidig said:
Personally, I have been, and still am, extremely happy to have a voice in the development of the best Bible study tool that has ever existed. I don't care if it's called alpha or beta. I am just very thankful for the program, and for a platform to give input before features and direction are finalized. Being a beta tester is optional... I see it as great privilege and blessing! Thank you Logos team for listening!!
I agree with your sentiment. [H] However small a voice it is, it is a privilege to be part of the process. [H]
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I've no insight into the exact software development process that Logos are using, but it seems quite similar to the 'Agile' process we use at work, where we literally 'release' new software every 3 weeks. These releases don't always go to our customers (whose user acceptance testing cycle may not permit such regular releases) but internally, the sales people and any other interested party are able to use these new releases.
We don't call them 'Betas' - at the end of each 3 week cycle the software is fully tested usually bug free...
Logos' model is clearly a bit different, but I love the fact that I can, if I choose to, get the latest features quickly. I sometimes wish that they would not place in the Beta features that are known to be very incomplete or even defective, but I think I'd rather have the current situation than to have to wait 3 months or more for each release...
Andy
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