melody carlson bundle - disillusioned
Christmas at Harringtons was free a while back, Christmas Dog is free today. If you have both these, and want the other books, it's cheaper to buy them separately, 11.99 and 4.49, (=16.48) than as part of the bundle at 26.83, which claims to be a $22 saving! Again, I feel this is below the high ethical standard I normally expect from Logos. If you didn't get Christmas at Harringtons and want it, you do save about $2 (not, according to my calculation, $22) by buying the bundle.
I do appreciate the free books, but not the sales claims
Comments
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nicky crane said:
Christmas at Harringtons was free a while back, Christmas Dog is free today. If you have both these, and want the other books, it's cheaper to buy them separately, 11.99 and 4.49, (=16.48) than as part of the bundle at 26.83, which claims to be a $22 saving! Again, I feel this is below the high ethical standard I normally expect from Logos. If you didn't get Christmas at Harringtons and want it, you do save about $2 (not, according to my calculation, $22) by buying the bundle.
I do appreciate the free books, but not the sales claims
I was speaking with a fellow Logos user a Church on Sunday, we are both becoming disillusioned with Logos whole marketing approach over the last year or so -its too much in your face, too much hidden truth - as I mentioned in another post else where sadly I never believe their percentage off claims any more because they are no real, but percentage off list price. Before buying from a Logos sale always use Google to check a cached copy of the product page to find out the real saving sometimes it can be as little as $10 off Logos normal retail price, and rather than the 50% off the list price..... your example is what I would expect from the New Logos Marketing Machine - just because it is permissible doesn't make it a good thing or a good look ...
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Nicky - What is deceptive about it? If you don't own those books, and want to buy them, then you get the discount mentioned? Seems pretty straight forward to me! If you already own some of the titles, then the bundle might not be the best option for you. It is not a matter of being deceptive at all. Your comments are quite unfair.
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Well, I'm not in the business of defending Logos, but to give them credit, the more recent ads (that I've seen) do now have 'retail', 'regular' and 'sale' which is fair enough (seems).
The problem with bundles (I think anyway) is a database problem. I could be badly wrong. But I used to be involved with managing large pricing databases and quite frankly the errors quite often were in favor of the customer. I don't know in Logos' case, but it's easy to imagine how they can get out of line. I've made my complaints previously, some bundles being cheaper than individual resources and visa versa.
That said, the tenor of Logos does bother me and I guess I'll be taking a hit here on the forum. I'd planned to take advantage of the Christmas credits, but I've held off. I don't begrudge Logos' practices any more than any other business. But for whatever reason it doesn't seem right and I'll likely forego purchases for a while. Probably cost me but I view integrity as a luxury not to waste.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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nicky crane said:
Christmas at Harringtons was free a while back, Christmas Dog is free today. If you have both these, and want the other books, it's cheaper to buy them separately, 11.99 and 4.49, (=16.48) than as part of the bundle at 26.83, which claims to be a $22 saving! Again, I feel this is below the high ethical standard I normally expect from Logos. If you didn't get Christmas at Harringtons and want it, you do save about $2 (not, according to my calculation, $22) by buying the bundle.
I do appreciate the free books, but not the sales claims
Nicky,
I apologize if you feel that the sales claims are below Logos' standard. The savings that we are referencing on Vyrso total the normal retail price of the four ebooks (The Christmas Dog $5.99, An Irish Christmas $5.99, Christmas at Harrington's $15.99, and The Treasure of Christmas $19.99) and subtract the current Vyrso price (The Christmas Dog Free, An Irish Christmas $4.49, Christmas at Harrington's $9.59, and The Treasure of Christmas $11.99) which totals to a savings of $21.89 (not the previously listed $22). We made a mistake on the price that was listed for An Irish Christmas which caused for a miscalculation in the total cost and savings. I apologize for this mistake, and appreciate you making us aware of the problem
Again I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused, please let me know if there is anything I can do to help alleviate your concerns.
Brian Williams
Vyrso Product Manager
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alabama24 said:
Nicky - What is deceptive about it? If you don't own those books, and want to buy them, then you get the discount mentioned? Seems pretty straight forward to me! If you already own some of the titles, then the bundle might not be the best option for you. It is not a matter of being deceptive at all. Your comments are quite unfair.
Alabama,firstly, I much appreciate the trouble you took helping me get my keyboard back, which was an iPad problem, not even a Logos problem. Less positively, where did I say vyrso's bundle pricing was deceptive? I feel you are being unfair here, not I!
Brian, thank you for taking the trouble to respond and explain. If vyrso could do as logos has done in some cases, giving retail, regular and sale prices, this might clear up misunderstandings and win further goodwill.
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nicky crane said:
where did I say vyrso's bundle pricing was deceptive?
Nicky - You did not use the term "deceptive." Sorry. Perhaps I misunderstood you:nicky crane said:I feel this is below the high ethical standard I normally expect from Logos.
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Maybe you read my thoughts. Apology accepted! I was trying to be fair. I now understand that the saving is on someone else's retail price, not on the vyrso price. I hope they'll make this clear for others who are no more perceptive than I. Incidentally I have noticed vyrso is sometimes cheaper than amazon kindle.
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Andrew McKenzie said:
I was speaking with a fellow Logos user a Church on Sunday, we are both becoming disillusioned with Logos whole marketing approach over the last year or so -its too much in your face, too much hidden truth -
I have complained about this, too. However, I really think that Logos is listening to us. Recent advertising gives the real price and the sale price so everything is out in the open. That is all anyone can fairly ask of them.
I love Logos software, but I am not a "fan boy" of any company. It doesn't help Logos to pretend there hasn't hasn't been a problem in their advertising. That is counter-productive. But I give them kudos for listening and correcting the problem. I do think Logos tries to listen to the customers and do the right thing. It is certainly to their advantage to do so. After all, to try and convince a customer that his complaint is not valid is a big step towards going out of business. Logos is too smart for that.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
For me the issue is as much a "math/marketing" thing as it is a "theoretical savings" issue.
Today's "Inspirational Bundle," for example. If you factor in that one of the four books is available for free, the total normal purchase price of the other three on Vyrso is $17.22 ($6.74 + $7.49 + $2.99), the exact same amount as the one-day "bundle" price. That's been a pretty consistent pattern, so regardless of how you feel about the savings being advertised, in reality Logos/Vyrso is providing absolutely no value / advantage / urgency in purchasing the bundles. (If my logic/math is wrong, please correct me.) While I've been looking forward to maybe seeing a bundle of Swindoll books and ones from some other "Christian Living" authors, if I can get one of the books free and pick up the rest later with the same bottom line impact on my wallet, that, unfortunately, is what I will keep doing.
Steve R.
Added: Lest I seem in any way ungrateful for the free books, I am not. Thank you Logos/Vyrso team for offering these gifts. I TRULY acknowledge and appreciate them! I was simply providing feedback on how the bundle aspect of the Christmas promotion met (or in this case, didn't) my personal expectations.
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Steve, exactly! With Logos 12 days of Christmas you can see at once what you'd be saving. With Vyrso I need to research. I do appreciate the free books, but the bundles don't inspire me to buy.
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Steve Robinson said:
For me the issue is as much a "math/marketing" thing as it is a "theoretical savings" issue.
Today's "Inspirational Bundle," for example. If you factor in that one of the four books is available for free, the total normal purchase price of the other three on Vyrso is $17.22 ($6.74 + $7.49 + $2.99), the exact same amount as the one-day "bundle" price. That's been a pretty consistent pattern, so regardless of how you feel about the savings being advertised, in reality Logos/Vyrso is providing absolutely no value / advantage / urgency in purchasing the bundles. (If my logic/math is wrong, please correct me.) While I've been looking forward to maybe seeing a bundle of Swindoll books and ones from some other "Christian Living" authors, if I can get one of the books free and pick up the rest later with the same bottom line impact on my wallet, that, unfortunately, is what I will keep doing.
Steve R.
Added: Lest I seem in any way ungrateful for the free books, I am not. Thank you Logos/Vyrso team for offering these gifts. I TRULY acknowledge and appreciate them! I was simply providing feedback on how the bundle aspect of the Christmas promotion met (or in this case, didn't) my personal expectations.
[Y][Y] Spot on, mate!! I too am not inspired in the packages, and would also pick up the titles singularly later on.
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Michael Childs said:Andrew McKenzie said:
I was speaking with a fellow Logos user a Church on Sunday, we are both becoming disillusioned with Logos whole marketing approach over the last year or so -its too much in your face, too much hidden truth -
I have complained about this, too. However, I really think that Logos is listening to us. Recent advertising gives the real price and the sale price so everything is out in the open. That is all anyone can fairly ask of them.
I love Logos software, but I am not a "fan boy" of any company. It doesn't help Logos to pretend there hasn't hasn't been a problem in their advertising. That is counter-productive. But I give them kudos for listening and correcting the problem. I do think Logos tries to listen to the customers and do the right thing. It is certainly to their advantage to do so. After all, to try and convince a customer that his complaint is not valid is a big step towards going out of business. Logos is too smart for that.
Michael very recently they have changed this, because it did not happen in the October sales, and its not just this point, but their whole approach to marketing has gone in over drive - yes they are a business and need sales - I get that having worked in retail all my working life - but there is a line where you can just take it a bit to far - saturation point - and Logos is over that line at the moment for my liking
...- other's may think otherwise - each to their own as long as we are all allowed to express our opinion - Logos are big enough to take what customer feedback they want to act on - its not a question of loyalty to Logos its a question of consumer response to a retailer's marketing strategies - and that will vary.
(Michael I have no issue with your reponse to my comments)
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Thank you for your feedback on the December Deal bundles. We have done our best to implement your feedback in our http://vyrso.com/12days bundles (displaying the retail and sale prices of each bundle).
We currently do not have the ability to discount the price on many of the ebooks beyond our current sale prices. Unless there is an agreement made with the publisher, which we have done for sales like 12 days, we do not have the ability to discount the prices any more. For the time being, the bundles are simply a number of ebooks that we think pair well with one of our free ebooks.0 -
Brian Williams said:
Thank you for your feedback on the December Deal bundles. We have done our best to implement your feedback in our http://vyrso.com/12days bundles (displaying the retail and sale prices of each bundle).
Thanks for the follow-up, Brian, and for doing what you can. Noted and appreciated. Hopefully, my feedback as well as everyone else's was taken as constructive and not critical. Keep up the good work and have a great Christmas!
Steve R.
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The problem with "xx% OFF" offers is that they have a false standard of a mythical MSRP. It is like saying, "well, compared to Hitler you are 79% better, you must be good enough to go to heaven"
The reality is that VALUE is individual and subjective. What one dismisses, another finds indispensable. Comparing prices of digital titles with print ones is unfair (many used books could be purchased for pennies on the dollar, while other out-of-print public domain books are impossible to find in print, but can be had for free in digital form).
As a general yardstick of value to ME, I consider half-price of paperback title a good value for a digital book.
Also grateful for FREE or really cheap Logos and Vyrso resources.
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Why do the bundles say:One day only, when it seems to me that the only time limited thing is the free book, that you can get without the rest of the bundle?
Also, I have the problem that when I tried to get more information by right clicking on the covers of the books in the Gospel coalition bundle and selecting Open in a new tab, I found that it took me straight to checkout. Fortunately I was able to cancel it! Such problems are not making me inclined to buy much from Vyrso at the moment.
Having said that, I am finding Success is not an Accident very helpful in getting my act together. I appreciate having got that free, and think it would also be value for the selling price.
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nicky crane said:
Why do the bundles say:One day only, when it seems to me that the only time limited thing is the free book, that you can get without the rest of the bundle?
I missed the Day One --Gospel Coalition bundle, the e-mail I received about the 12 Days of Vyrso came in after 8pm and I didn't open it till the next day. When I clicked on the link in the e-mail they were no longer at the bundle sale price (I looked for a discount code in the e-mail and there wasn't one). I was surprised, since I expected the Vyrso side to be the same as the Logos side.
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Praiser said:nicky crane said:
Why do the bundles say:One day only, when it seems to me that the only time limited thing is the free book, that you can get without the rest of the bundle?
I missed the Day One --Gospel Coalition bundle, the e-mail I received about the 12 Days of Vyrso came in after 8pm and I didn't open it till the next day. When I clicked on the link in the e-mail they were no longer at the bundle sale price (I looked for a discount code in the e-mail and there wasn't one). I was surprised, since I expected the Vyrso side to be the same as the Logos side.
Wow! Prices really have gone up! I obviously misunderstood ?Brian's explanation of how the bundle price works. SO for that day you can buy separate resources in the bundle at discounted price if you don't want them all.
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"You can please some of the people some of the time..."
While I know that we all use Logos and the resources in our library in different ways, and we all have different expectations of what books we find most valuable and want (hope) to pay for them - especially on the newer, broader-in-scope Vyrso site - I remain incredibly impressed with how the people in this business have listened to customer feedback and actually responded in their offers (enhancing the "Christmas Credit" program on the Logos side and adding a "12 Days" on the Vyrso side) when they certainly didn't have to.
I know from 25 years in the business world that this kind of flexibility and responsiveness is rare, especially when a specific offer/promotion has already been well thought out within the organization and communicated to the public outside the organization.
I encourage everyone who has benefited so far from what Logos is trying to do through Vyrso to demonstrate their appreciation (even as we hope for our favorite books to still go on sale at unbelievable prices) and, more specifically, give Brian as much encouragement and "customer grace" as possible as the guy driving the big Vyrso bus through its first holiday season. (Please keep your head and hands in the bus at all times, people.)
Thanks! Enjoy the day!
Steve R.
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nicky crane said:
for that day you can buy separate resources in the bundle at discounted price if you don't want them all.
Yes.
nicky crane said:Wow! Prices really have gone up!
Yes. They really were good deals. [:)]
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nicky crane said:
Wow! Prices really have gone up! I obviously misunderstood ?Brian's explanation of how the bundle price works. SO for that day you can buy separate resources in the bundle at discounted price if you don't want them all.
Appears Vryso has individual pricing for items in bundles, also learning to check Vyrso savings daily:
http://vyrso.com/products/search?q=&unlocked=no&start=&sort=savings&pageSize=30
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Steve Robinson said:
"You can please some of the people some of the time..."
While I know that we all use Logos and the resources in our library in different ways, and we all have different expectations of what books we find most valuable and want (hope) to pay for them - especially on the newer, broader-in-scope Vyrso site - I remain incredibly impressed with how the people in this business have listened to customer feedback and actually responded in their offers (enhancing the "Christmas Credit" program on the Logos side and adding a "12 Days" on the Vyrso side) when they certainly didn't have to.
I know from 25 years in the business world that this kind of flexibility and responsiveness is rare, especially when a specific offer/promotion has already been well thought out within the organization and communicated to the public outside the organization.
I encourage everyone who has benefited so far from what Logos is trying to do through Vyrso to demonstrate their appreciation (even as we hope for our favorite books to still go on sale at unbelievable prices) and, more specifically, give Brian as much encouragement and "customer grace" as possible as the guy driving the big Vyrso bus through its first holiday season. (Please keep your head and hands in the bus at all times, people.)
Thanks! Enjoy the day!
Steve R.
Well-spoken, Steve! Indeed! I bless you; and may our Gracious God Bless you for such a positive attitude and post! Peace and Joy to all! *smile*
I am truly very thankful to Logos for so many things, and I appreciate when others are encouraging and constructive!
Psalm 130:5 Psalm 130:6
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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