voting with my wallet

I trust that you all had a Merry Christmas. I praise the Lord for Logos4 and amazing team behind it. They truly proved that they listen to their users, love the Lord and know "their (coding) stuff." I am glad to have chosen to install and use L4 on a daily basis.

Despite of these things, I chose to NOT participate in recent sales (they are very attractive) because I am concerned about a disconnect in priorities of users and LOGOS team.

I get the feeling that 2011 was the "Year of Marketing" at Logos, while it could have been the year when it finally achieved parity with Libronix as of it's Missing Features. Promises were made. Year came and gone.

Even Uservoice platform was underutilized and maybe completely forgotten. As I see today, the only 2 official responses on Top requests were updated over a year and 6 months ago respectively. [*-)]

It seems to me that the future is going to bring more of what we have seen in 2011, UNLESS we speak the only language businesses understand.

There is no official commitment on the promises made 2 years ago, while a huge marketing tide is sweeping across the userbase. I am glad for the terrific resource deals, but Logos was originally made as a Bible Study tool. Little quirks and details in note-taking activities, Searching, slow loading, having to right-click instead of double-clicking in RI, foreign language issues, Library interface, hiding of unnecessary resources, are often a hindrance than help.

I view purchasing resources from Logos as a way to support THEM and their vision. Sure, I can spend $2500 and get a $1000 credit, but this year, I am voting with my wallet to see program improvements that are important to users.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

I get the feeling that 2011 was the "Year of Marketing" at Logos, while it could have been the year when it finally achieved parity with Libronix as of it's Missing Features. Promises were made. Year came and gone.

Understand frustration. Initial port of Libronix 3 to Mac OS X was announced, followed by shipping many, many months later. Logos for Mac version 1 lacked many features in Libronix 3. Logos 4 Mac offers substantially more, with amazing progress over couple years; yet Logos 4 Mac does not yet have complete feature parity with PC. Logos 4.5 Beta has many improvements and some bugginess to fix before a stable release would be ready.

Suspect many in Logos share anguish about not getting more done this year, yet many improvements have been delivered on a variety of platforms.

Thankful for many friendly forum discussions, including passionate sharing of desire for Logos resources and software improvements.

Even Uservoice platform was underutilized and maybe completely forgotten. As I see today, the only 2 official responses on Top requests were updated over a year and 6 months ago respectively.

[Y] Concur updating Logos User Voice suggestion status would be appreciated, especially for ones already in progress.

Personally Thankful for Logos 4.3 shipping Personal Book tool this year; currently compiling a public domain Bible without chapter and verse numbers that has tagging for right click use in Logos 4 and can be included in a link set for scrolling.

Likewise looking forward to Logos 4.5 stable release and concurrent mobile app updates for cross platform sync of reading plans, highlighting, notes, ... that many Logos users, including Bob Pritchett (CEO) are anxiously awaiting. Implementing data replication for quick propagation across platforms is technically challenging (daunting), yet Information Technology is rapidly moving to cloud computing.

Despite of these things, I chose to NOT participate in recent sales (they are very attractive) because I am concerned about a disconnect in priorities of users and LOGOS team.

Concur expanding Logos availability and usability on many devices has impacted completion of feature migration/implementation on one platform due to needing cross platform integration vs narrow focus on one platform. Thankful Libronix 3 and Logos 4 can be used simultaneously on Windows. In contrast, many Logos users have more than one electronic device so having Logos on many platforms is awesome. Considering history of computing devices, I would be much more concerned if Logos was narrowly focused on one platform. With millions of devices being sold annually, glad can freely use Logos on many of them.

I view purchasing resources from Logos as a way to support THEM and their vision. Sure, I can spend $2500 and get a $1000 credit, but this year, I am voting with my wallet to see program improvements that are important to users.

Concur purchasing resources from Logos helps support the company and resource publishers financially. Also aware a bargain is not a bargain if cannot use it.

Thankful for awesome Christmas credit and collection deals; personally pondering and praying about purchase. Looking at Christmas 2011 Masters collection content, noticing many resources would like to read and use. Thankful for many free Vyrso resources this month. [8-|]

Logos is hiring plus opening a Developer Office in Phoenix => http://blog.logos.com/2011/12/logos-opens-phoenix-development-office/ that should expand Logos development team plus attract talent who will not move to Bellingham, WA (too cloudy for much of the year). For year round bicycle riding, summer in Bellingham and winter in Phoenix is very attractive. Logos has had developer opportunities open for over a year, which is also impacting ability to complete promised features.

Keep Smiling [:)]

JT (alabama24)

I praise the Lord for Logos4 and amazing team behind it. They truly proved that they listen to their users, love the Lord and know "their (coding) stuff." I am glad to have chosen to install and use L4 on a daily basis.

Despite of these things, I chose to NOT participate in recent sales (they are very attractive) because I am concerned about a disconnect in priorities of users and LOGOS team.

Which is it? Do they listen to their users or is there a disconnect? Personally, I feel that Logos has made tremendous strides in L4Mac this year.

toughski

Which is it? Do they listen to their users or is there a disconnect?

Alabama, I hear you. Listening and doing aren't always the same thing, unfortunately...[;)]

MJ. Smith

Listening and doing aren't always the same thing, unfortunately...

What I keep seeing again and again in the forums are differences of opinion that boil down to how much progress one believes Logos can make in a given period of time. T. C., myself and some others who have many years in IT look at the development cycle and design decisions and expect slow progress. Others are convinced that throwing more resources at the project would speed things up ... while others think it would make no difference or perhaps even slow down progress. And there are those who feel betrayed by the slack of communication when new features slide, and those who simply want it and want it now - feeling that they have been patient long enough.

What all of the above positions forget is that the programming and testing simply takes as long as it takes given the state of the code, the skill of the programmers and the usefulness of their tools. Management may (a) pressure them (b) release before they think its ready or (c) fire them. But we really ought to spend a bit more time appreciating the crew in the trenches working their tails off (there's proof - none of them have tails other than as part of their hair style). Some of them popup in the forums now and then trying to help us, usually when we are at our most frustrated and irritable times. But come on, let's cut them a break and say

Thank you, Logos development staff. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year.

(and, boy, are we looking forward to our next goodies[;)])

Philana Crouch

Amen! I have found Logos working pretty good for me so far. Also I appreciate the Logos credit this month, they did not have to do that. I think the desktop application keeps improving. I remember when I did not have Logos in school, it makes me much more appreciative.

Blessings,

Philana

Lynden O. Williams

What all of the above positions forget is that the programming and testing simply takes as long as it takes given the state of the code, the skill of the programmers and the usefulness of their tools. Management may (a) pressure them (b) release before they think its ready or (c) fire them

MJ, I am not a programmer, (elementary G W BASIC) hows that for old school, but I have seen programmers at work, and have taught myself basic html, and know the frustration of trying to get something to work.

I too have my wish list, but I know they are patiently working. If it is rushed and released too soon (bugs) then users say they rushed the code, if it is put through its paces, then users say they taking too long. The programmers are between the Devil and the deep blue sea.

When we bear in mind that the engine is free, we should not complain about the cost of the resources. If I cannot afford it, I move on or wait patiently for a sale. How many companies allow you to use multiple devices with syncing (in beta) at no cost.

Matthew C Jones

I trust that you all had a Merry Christmas.

Christmas in my tribe was wonderful this year. There was very little of that materialism stuff and whole lots of family, friends, fellowship and food. It was good, old-fashioned memory making. There were plenty of moments to sit quietly in wonderment.

Despite of these things, I chose to NOT participate in recent sales (they are very attractive) because I am concerned about a disconnect in priorities of users and LOGOS team.

Perhaps Logos went all-out in a sales push to raise enough revenue to press forward with the development you so earnestly desire. I don't really know. It was brought to our attention many of the Bible add-ons had their prices dropped to $10. I strongly encourage you to get any of those Bible versions you need. It will show Logos you approve of the new pricing and possibly encourage more of it.

We have heard whispers of "something BIG" coming. I do believe Logos is still committed to delivering on the features it has promised us. One thing I have always believed is; it will definitely take longer than any of us (Logos included) expect it to take. There may even be a couple features that have to wait until L5 or L6. I am thinking of Hebrew pronunciation here. I figure we will get it when we get it.

In 2011:

We have seen many of our resources make it to handheld devices.
The Logos Wiki has really matured. (With a lot of help from that undercover MVP Steve Clark.)
We saw Vyrso launch.
Proclaim is actively being tested by a number of churches.
Lots of new Logos training materials have appeared from Logos, Morris Proctor Seminars, John Fallahee, and that amazing Mark Barnes fellow.
Several video series have also been produced helping us learn Greek, Hebrew, Discourse Analysis and even the I-Beam of preaching.
Andrew Jones has helped Logos address the need for Catholic study materials and the organizing of appropriate resources.
MJ is helping with Catholics4Logos.
Logos employees now have Chai Tea at work. (For how long, only Dan can say.)
We received a gift of the Perseus Collections for FREE!
We actually have a working "Personal Book Builder" feature in Logos 4.
Our Logos account has a Wish List.
Our Logos account can display credit.
The sales focus has gone from what they think you want to asking "What do you want?"
Community Pricing titles typically graduate at $1 to $3 per book, and rather quickly, I might add.
Logos decided to open a Phoenix office amidst the Grand Canyon, the Painted Desert, the Petrified Forest, and a quick flight from Area 51.
added in light of Denise's post below: Logos has really made advancements on the Mac side of things. Enough so that I run L4 on both the Windows and Mac operating systems and I am reasonably content. [8-|]

I could go on but that is enough to convince me. I am better off today in my Logos world than I was this time last year. My wallet opens it's mouth with a big grin and screams "Yes! Logos, You're doin' fine!"

DMB

Well, this thread REALLY bugs me. I've been using the BEST BIBLE SOFTWARE (Libronix3 of course) for five years!!

Now, the poster wants Logos4 to catch up. And (I guess) not have so many sales too.

But more seriously (so MJ won't ding me again), I do use the Windows version of L4 and have my gripes. But each time I see happy iPad people or all-those-brands I can't remember users, or even the Mac (some of whose users you really feel for), I'm happy for them. Trying to get so many platforms stable must really be a pain. I have to assume Bob's really biting his tougue periodically and 'reading James up a storm!'.

I'm really happy too that Logos is pursuing the presentation software. Our church isn't in the ballpark, but the idea is just unbelievable (what will eventually be possible). Just unbelievable.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

Thank you, Logos development staff. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year.

(and, boy, are we looking forward to our next goodies)

[Y] Plus Thanks to entire Logos company; Thankful for interaction with many employees. [:D]

My appreciation for high quality Logos resources with tagging has grown while compiling and comparing a public domain Bible without chapter and verse numbers. A public domain text source has numerous typographical errors compared to the Logos resource.

Keep Smiling [:)]

DMB

ST, that mouser looks suspiciously like he's trafficing in yen. And no Japanese interlinear either (or Japanese for that matter).

Matthew C Jones

ST, that mouser looks suspiciously like he's trafficing in yen. And no Japanese interlinear either (or Japanese for that matter).

I honestly chose him specifically for You. No kidding. And I knew you would catch that and hoped you would mention it. (Thanks. for doing so.) Now maybe Bob Pritchet will go for the pile of Yen and deliver Japanese Bibles in Logos 4.

DMB

Thank you!!! We have japanese at church that would really benefit from Logos.

Doc B

but this year, I am voting with my wallet

Well, I voted with MY wallet. I just hit the 30% level, and am thrilled with both Logos 4 and the resources I've bought and will buy.

Thanks, Logos!

toughski

I just hit the 30% level, and am thrilled with both Logos 4 and the resources I've bought and will buy.

Just remember, 2 more days!

Batman

I, myself, find the new L4 a bit annoying. The "home page" seems to be nothing more than advertising articles.
I would prefer more articles, or, nothing at all. The old L3 format was better, in some ways, with the pop-up alerts.
One other issue I see is that everything does not appear to be "linked"; which is why I thought the forever and a year install.

Philana Crouch

I, myself, find the new L4 a bit annoying. The "home page" seems to be nothing more than advertising articles.
I would prefer more articles, or, nothing at all. The old L3 format was better, in some ways, with the pop-up alerts.
One other issue I see is that everything does not appear to be "linked"; which is why I thought the forever and a year install.

You can edit the home page at the bottom left corner. The adds can be turned off.

Blessings,

Philana

MJD

I am voting with my wallet to see program improvements that are important to users.

I voted with my wallet too, more than 8,000 times! I think this Christmas sale was the best ever... Thank you Logos!

I worked with Santiago and he is awesome to work with!

Matthew C Jones

I voted with my wallet too, more than 8,000 times! I think this Christmas sale was the best ever... Thank you Logos! I worked with Santiago and he is awesome to work with!

Voted 8000 times?! [:O] Are you shameless? Or are you that absolutely positive your spouse does not read the forums?

MJD

No spouse... It only makes sense to buy now while you get 50 percent back to be used for future purchases. [Y]

Josh

I voted with my wallet too, more than 8,000 times! I think this Christmas sale was the best ever... Thank you Logos! I worked with Santiago and he is awesome to work with!

Voted 8000 times?! Are you shameless? Or are you that absolutely positive your spouse does not read the forums?

This coming from the guy who sold three cars to buy Logos resources this Christmas!

toughski

I voted with my wallet too, more than 8,000 times! I think this Christmas sale was the best ever... Thank you Logos!

Guess what? there will be a similar deal next year, probably even better. But even if not, I have enough Logos resources to last me a lifetime. I am also confident that by this time next year L4 will be better than ever (LOGOS, don't make me eat my words! [;)] )

I am happy you got an awesome deal for great resources to be used in amazing software.

Batman

That cut out a lot of junk. Thank you. (Kept community pricing, tho [A]

You can edit the home page at the bottom left corner. The adds can be turned off.

Blessings,

Philana

Matthew C Jones

This coming from the guy who sold three cars to buy Logos resources this Christmas!

It gets complicated...... The sale of the cars was to keep my wife happy. She helps me set priorities and pare down my multi-faceted interests. If a double-minded man is unstable, what would a cluster-bomb minded man be? (video courtesy of Wired magazine)

So when I talk about abandoning one of my hobbies or "projects" in favor of more Logos resources, my wife is very supportive. Bible study has got to be better for me than any of my other interests.