Logos and Notes
Comments
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Let me interject what is simply my perspective on the notes question. I'm an academic / pastor and have two needs that are rather distinct. As an academic, it is critical that I can keep a store of interconnected quotations from various sources. Usually, I'm gathering notes because they address a common theme or discuss a common question. Clippings meet this need in a very rudimentary way. At a minimum, they need to include tags so that I can express what I understand to be the interconnections. They also need a mass export function so that I can take the notes and tags and work with them in an environment that allows hierarchical organization (outlining).
Secondly, from time to time I do have observations about biblical and extra-biblical texts that I need to capture. Sometimes this will include short quotes, but more often these are the notes that might go in a wide-margin bible. What is critical is that I can find these observations later. For me, the current Notes functionality fails miserably here. I would much rather see one note automatically attached to every verse, chapter and book; better would be verse, pericopae, chapter, section and book. I know that I can produce these myself over time, but that's way too many note files floating around to do manually what should be done automatically and out of view. Again, these marginalia notes need tags. I also think they should offer lemma tagging. Over 20 years of study, I've done a lot of work with specific words which express theological concepts. When I'm working with a passage that includes (for example) δίκαιος, I'd love to tag the lemma or better the stem.
Both the clipping and notes functions could be folded into a single function that indexed three fields: passage, lemma or stem, and tags.
I now find myself working across two different programs (Logos and BW). I really want a central repository for my research notes and textual observations. BW has an excellent editor and simple note management, but will never expand the function to include lemma or stem indexing and really falls short on the search function once a large number of notes are in play. If Logos doesn't want to be that repository, fine (I guess). At a minimum, offer hooks to the previously mentioned platforms (Evernote and OneNote [please MS gods, release OneNote for the Mac!) that do desire to be a central repository for user data.
Notes are the fruit of my labor with the biblical texts and are critical to me. In a perfect world (for me), there would be Nota Bene for Mac and I'd just dump everything there. No such world exists (at least that I've discovered to this time).
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Ask, and it shall be given:
http://www.notabene.com/nb10_intro.html
Interesting option....though I don't know how long it will take them to get Orbis to the place where it will run under WINE. Any mac beta testers out there?
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Thank you for your input. I have been having a side conversation with Bob P on the possibility of a notes interface that would allow tags and attaching to lemmas. The Notes currently in beta allow the indentation of notes (most visible in compact form to that one can provide some hierarchy.
I'd not thought of a pregenerated set of notes before - it's an interesting idea to mull over.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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At least I'd like to do waht I used to do with L3 notes. Select text> Right click> New note>
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toughski said:
are limitations now due to technical issues (amount of RAM, bandwidth, processor capabilities), or simply your rigid vision and design?
WPF is a significant limitation - the text editor doesn't handle tables, images etc. Because I have been convinced that this is a real limitation that Logos is accutely aware of, I have chosen not to fight the table/template fight now. To me the next major steps forward after the current release goes gold are:
- ability to link a note to just about anything
- ability to link a note to more than one "just about anything"
- ability to treat all notes the same re: tags, text editing features and moving from file to file
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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ROGER JIMENEZ said:
Select text> Right click> New note>
I'm not quite sure what you mean ... unless I am changing linkage (reference/selection) or file, that is what I do. What step of L4 do you want removed? Is it logically possible to remove /default that step?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Dr. Clint Cozier said:
I would much rather see one note automatically attached to every verse, chapter and book; better would be verse, pericopae, chapter, section and book
After mulling this over, it seems to me that this would be an example of where using a PB for your notes might be the better solution. You would have to find and open each note to add to it. Many people do not organize their notes in that manner - rather they depend on the search of My Content for pull together notes relating to the same verse OR they use the note icons in their Bible text. I can see a use for your method supporting requests for features such as My Catena or My Commentary. But others may well use nos as you do - it would be nice to hear from some of them.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Kevin Becker said:
They clamor to be able to do it in notes because it's the closest thing to what has historically been done for this (Word Processing). Would it be possible to start a conversation on the types of things customers want to do in Logos to spec out a new tool(s) without trying to shoehorn notes into something it wasn't designed to do?
I have a somewhat different view of this as I don't see Word processors as a precursor to note functions - rather I look to the old DOS hyperlink program Houdini or the Apple HyperCard - both available in the 80's. Actually, when one compares the Notes feature as it appears in Logos 5 - looking at (1) Notes in Guides (2) standard Notes, (3) Clippings and (4) annotation Notes, Logos has most of the functionality they need to make notes work. That is one reason I get so vocal and frustrated ...it doesn't look like is should be a big deal - it looks like it took more code to remove features than it would have taken to let them be inherited. The issue of tables and images do present a major problem - but that is as much of Microsoft's making as Logos so I'll give them a temporary pass based on priorities.
But the problems of what you can link to, how many things you can link to and how you can move notes around, etc. is, in my opinion, a lack of understanding on the part of Logos as to how note taking is currently being taught and what basics are assumed by people who've used note taking software. Be glad we don't have many lawyers - they've had really cool note taking software for 20 years. I think legal notes are a good analogy as lawyers need their notes to create legal documents (which is not done in the research software) just as preachers and teachers need their notes to create lessons and sermons, which appropriately takes place in a word processor / publisher / presentation tool.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Richard DeRuiter said:
But you (and some others here) want the research environment to have its own, built-in note-taking function to record and store the fruit of your research. Maybe we should stop being surprised at each others' expectations and just see them for what they are: different expectations of what a research environment is.
Belatedly, I finally recognize a fundamental difference in how we view "research" and "notes". I think of note taking, asking questions, noting relationships etc. as the product of the ongoing process of reading - without regard to whether I ever expect to "need" the information. My "research" is all the bits I've stashed away in my brain, highlighted in books, written in journals, scattered in books on stickies ...When I am researching a particular Bible text or topic, I expect to be able to pull out Logos all that "stuff" which looks much like brainstorming,
It seems to me that your description of putting your notes into a Word processor, that you think of your research as already having a topic in mind If I had a topic in mind when I took notes, my style would look much closer to yours At that point I would be far more willing to consider 3rd party software (and likely would be).
The fun thing about my way is that I collect a lot of stuff that is of no use to me - but I can often provide a tip or resource to others who actually have a use for it.[:)].
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
The issue of tables and images do present a major problem - but that is as much of Microsoft's making as Logos so I'll give them a temporary pass based on priorities.
Does this mean that Microsoft originally planned to have tables and images in WPF but subsequently changed their plans?
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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MJ. Smith said:
WPF is a significant limitation - the text editor doesn't handle tables, images etc.
Not quite 100% true. The WPF editor can do tables and images; it is just very difficult because it uses RTF instead of HTML, and very very very simple tables in RTF is very hard to do.
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Graham Owen said:
Microsoft ... WPF
There has been a lot of conversation about Microsoft's future plans with WPF (just search this forum for some examples). WPF can handle tables and images. Tables are very difficult to do because WPF uses RTF. From my understanding, images are a different story. From other posts, Bob does not want to use the bandwidth or the DASD space to store the images.
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Concur that WPF, although very nice for developers, proved to be a pain for users (font rendering, slow, input limitations).
I just re-read Bob's reasoning for choosing WPF, and wonder if there is an alternative at this point.
tom collinge said:From other posts, Bob does not want to use the bandwidth or the DASD space to store the images.
can you substantiate this by providing a link?
This seems to be a simple $$$ question with a simple $$$ solution - penalize start charging users for bandwidth overage they actually create. If I include images in my notes and want them available on my 2 phones, tablet, 2 laptops and a workstation, I should be willing to pay for the service. I see more and more limitations that "free engine" is creating which stand in the way of progress.
I know Amazon's servers are not cheap, but what about Logos offering a subscription based tiered bandwidth plans a-la Amazon cloud drive.
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What I am saying is that there are genuine costs and difficulties with images and tables that mean we should first get what we need that does not require major investment in time and money. It would be foolish to hold up features that can be provided easily for those that will take a while.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I am willing to wait.
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Thanks for clarification MJ. I do agree with you here. There are a lot of things that can be done without a major investment.MJ. Smith said:What I am saying is that there are genuine costs and difficulties with images and tables that mean we should first get what we need that does not require major investment in time and money. It would be foolish to hold up features that can be provided easily for those that will take a while.
This being said, tables and images are very important to me.
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toughski said:
Concur that WPF, although very nice for developers, proved to be a pain for users
It's not necessarily nice for Developer's judging by http://www.codeproject.com/KB/WPF/wpf-richtexteditor.aspx
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
It's not necessarily nice for Developer's judging by http://www.codeproject.com/KB/WPF/wpf-richtexteditor.aspx
Yikes, what I meant was that WPF allowed Logos developers to have a ready-made module, instead of spending months of coding/testing/modifying it. Anyway, it was a tangent that I started and I need to kill it. Bang! There, it is dead.
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toughski said:
can you substantiate this by providing a link?
Look at Bob's statement in this post: http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/suggestions/613917-please-make-importing-pictures-in-notes-available
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Russ,Russ White said:I note that Bob has just declined the rather popular request for selective synchronization of notes.
I have resubmitted the request as per Bob's statement, "If you still feel strongly about this you’re welcome to create a new issue and vote for it."
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toughski said:
Anyway, it was a tangent that I started and I need to kill it. Bang! There, it is dead.
Dead[:)]
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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MJ. Smith said:
What step of L4 do you want removed?
??? Nothing to remove. It's just that I still miss that old function that allowed you create a new note from any resource. You can't in L4. The help menu says: "Note: "Add a note to New Notes” will only be available when there are no existing Notes documents." I don't understand this logic, asumes that you will only create one note and just one note and nothing but one note in your life. I mean, you don't plan notes, in a moment, you say: "Hey, I need remember this!", and want to create a blessed note right away.
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ROGER JIMENEZ said:
The help menu says: "Note: "Add a note to New Notes” will only be available when there are no existing Notes documents."
Are you saying that you want each note to be it's own file? What I would do in your scenario is make a note file called "work notes" and dump all new notes in it. I could then drag and drop them into topical files when/if I wanted to organize them.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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For sure there is something I don't see. Sorry for my English. In addition (of having the ability of creating a new note), of course, L3 lists (with right click) the note files you already have.
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ROGER JIMENEZ said:
L3 lists (with right click) the note files you already have.
L4 only lists the open files which is a major change. See if this video http://www.logos4training.com/videos/notes/ helps you use notes in Logos. Sorry, it is only in English.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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