Logos lending library

Are there any plans on having a Logos lending library? This would be a great help to the church and for bible students who are interested in theological works and commentaries but not sure if they are wanting to purchase an entire collection.

Has this been discussed before?

Thanks,

Patrick Lacson

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Dave Hooton

Has this been discussed before?

Philana Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/326779#Comment_326779

I don't think the publishers would go for it...it would be nice though!

Patrick Lacson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/326779#Comment_326779

Dave,

So not much discussion on this bright idea of mine I'll read through those and from what it sounds like Logos users want it but Logos doesn't want to do it due to publisher limitation and cost for Logos.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/326789#Comment_326789

So not much discussion on this bright idea of mine

The idea has been around for several years but these forums have only been going 2+ years. "try and buy" has been one variation, but the administration overheads have killed any lending proposals.

toughski

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/326795#Comment_326795

I am not sure why, but even on Amazon's HUGELY popular Kindle platform, their own lending library is a joke. No more than 1 book/month limitation is a disappointment. Sites like BookLending.com are also barely functioning (I lent a dozen books with NO borrowed books).

I personally feel that "each should own a copy of a book" is a totally ridiculous idea, that publishers somehow assert as their right.

As far as "administration overheads" I think that is simply an excuse. Everything is done automatically. This is similar to a family sharing minutes on their phone plan, down to tracking "expiration" of their minute allowance for the month, etc.

There is not a significant increase to administration overhead to track the book for Susan as the "owner" of her license on her 5 devices, than to track Susan on 4 devices and Dave on his 1 device. With Kindle Fire Amazon's philosophy is to serve everything from the cloud - The idea is to basically check device's credentials and grant or deny access. What is so complicated with making expiring licences? Oh, it's called greed!

Any company that is willing to provide the added value by having a user-to-user lending feature, a central lending library, or even a flat monthly subscription to their full catalog or even subsets of such (read All Theology Books, All Commentary books, all Christian Living books, All Sermon Resources, etc ) gets my support[*]

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/326781#Comment_326781

I don't think the publishers would go for it...it would be nice though!

I also don't believe very many authors would go for it.

There are very special cases where an author will release his works for free public use. I am reminded of John Piper and Mark Driscoll who announced their sermon archives would be free from their own websites. (I don't know how that is going...) At one point Harold Willmington made much of his published works freely available online. I think eventually the publisher had him pull them.

Usually an author is dependent upon royalties to pay the bills, feed the family and give to church and charity. If you check your local library you will find many works that are specifically licensed for private use only and forbidden to be offered for loaning. Yet the libraries ignore the copyright claims. Most software companies offer a "private version" for individual use and an "institutional version" for college libraries and corporate training use. The latter is always significantly higher in price. Unless there have been recent changes Logos does ot offer an institutional license. I hope someday they will so seminary libraries and church offices can legally use it. I have discovered more than one major seminary that offers use of a Logos license in their library. I believe they are in violation of the EULA.

I would welcome a "loan-a-book" option, if it locks the volume in my library while it is borrowed. That will ensure I get it back from my friends. [:@]

Paul N

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/326904#Comment_326904

While I believe to implement such an operation is much more complicated than some give it credit for resource lending could be limited to in house and public domain resources in order to bypass many of the licensing restrictions. This could possibly tank the value of those resources though.

toughski

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/326908#Comment_326908

While I believe to implement such an operation is much more complicated than some give it credit

I am not discounting the technological complexity of tracking licences. But it is ONLY a technological issue that any capable programmer can handle. Right? Tracking licences is not THE issue. I believe the issue is entitlement. I am not talking about Logos - they are just a media provider for content. They have to prioritize. I would rather they get Notes right, Logos4 usable in foreign languages, other features still missing, etc.

This whole idea of authors controlling who has ACCESS to their work AFTER someone lawfully purchased a physical copy of a book or licence is intriguing to me. When exactly did it start? And on what basis do authors base their claim?

If I buy a painting, how many people can I lawfully share it with? Can I create a personal library and share my copies of the books for free? Am I not legally allowed to resell my copy of anything physical for any amount I choose? The answer is yes. Can't you see that the only legal rights being violated lately with digital music, videos and books are consumers'? Yes, this is a complicated issue. Yes, digital files are easy to copy and resell while retaining an exact replica of the original. I am against that. I am not advocating stealing. I am for authors being properly reimbursed for their creativity. And they should price their works so once someone buys a physical book, or a licence, authors get their entire claim against that person settled. If I want another copy for aunt Sue - I may chose to buy her own copy, or I can give (permanently) or share (temporarily) my own copy with her. Authors have no legal claim to my copy after I pay for it. This is the essence of First Sale doctrine. But ...

entitlement mentality was not satisfied with that. Thus the EULA was created. And somehow by the convoluted legal process common sense was replaced by case law to make a consumer "agree" to abdicate his rights if he wanted to run a certain software or listen to tunes in a certain format. DRM definitely did not work for the music industry and it won't work for the book industry. DRM only hurts honest customers. Especially in Christian circles.

Patrick Lacson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/327638#Comment_327638

Is there a way for publishers and Logos to agree to a lending library for seminaries? Can lending be limited in scope to bring some level of assurance to publishers that they are helping financially-challenged seminarians?

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/327651#Comment_327651

Is there a way for publishers and Logos to agree to a lending library for seminaries? Can lending be limited in scope to bring some level of assurance to publishers that they are helping financially-challenged seminarians?

I just don't know. There are so many different publishers. The ones most likely to be wanted by seminary students are also probably the same publishers who don't sell many copies to the general public. In other words, the seminary user base may be their only user base. If that is so there would be no paying customers to underwrite their publishing efforts.

nicky crane

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/327683#Comment_327683

Amazon, I think, allows one user to register up to 5 Kindles. So you could thus share your Amazon books with your friends. I do find it frustrating not being able to share books I have bought with others. Thank God for the many free ebooks available on the internet.

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/327651#Comment_327651

Is there a way for publishers and Logos to agree to a lending library for seminaries? Can lending be limited in scope to bring some level of assurance to publishers that they are helping financially-challenged seminarians?

To get this off the ground try writing a set of rules that could be used to do this
This is NOT going to get started unless we [YOU] can hand Logos and the Publishers a set of rules that will work.

For example: Who gets to use the School’s set?
Do you just have to have legal access to the school library computers? [does the library check the last class date on your ID?]
Do you have to be a currently registered student? [maybe not taking classes ‘this semester’ but will next?]
Do you actively have to be taking a class? [Not just registered with the school – I was taking only one class per semester in night school for years – and there were some semesters that there were no classes offered that I needed – would I still have been eligible during those dead semesters? What about during the summer?]
Do you need to be working on a Degree? [4 or 5 classes per semester and with a ‘c’ average or better after the first semester]
[And don’t forget part time students that are working full time and students after hours]

Also Logos is licensed for one user. They look the other way when a non pastor wife [or husband] of a pastor uses the pastor’s id for a very small number of hours a week. [no one has set how small that number is before it starts to look like two users on the same account] but the rule is each student needs their own ID and library. [and not a school one that they use for the semester] [[How long will the transfer of licenses for a small fee last if each fall there are 200 transfers at schools all having the format of studentAA @ my.edu to studentBB @ my.edu ]]

Define “each student needs their own ID and library” as modified by the set of rules you wrote in step one above.

It might happen but maybe it needs our help in defining legally enforceable rules to get it rolling. Have fun writing them.