A plea for speeding up the "select resource" drop down in search
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Mark Barnes said:
This is reported as fixed in 4.5a beta 3.
It's not fixed for me. I've got beta 3, and the resource dropdown in the Bible Search panel is still extremely slow.
Here's a log file for a session where all I did was boot Logos (to a layout last used which had a Search panel and nothing else), click Basic, click the resource dropdown (it was relatively quick), click Bible, click the resource dropdown (this time it took about 15 seconds), then quit Logos.
EDIT: Note that I have lots of hidden resources (over 1000) and I saw lots of mention of those in this log file. I wonder if that could be what's slowing mine down.
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This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
This is reported as fixed in 4.5a beta 3.
It's definitely fixed for me. Thanks, Bradley.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Much faster for me. Are we supposed to rebuild anything, or Bible PBs, or .....?
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Mark Barnes said:
Well, I'd forgotten we had to do that, so I just went and rebuilt all of them and restarted Logos. Didn't make any difference. Still 15 seconds to drop down that menu.
Here's a new log file: 10311.Logos4.log
Here's a screencast of it taking 13 seconds to populate that menu:
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Mine still takes about twelve seconds on cold booth. Running 4.5 Beta 4
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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On further review, if I just hit the drop down and don't type anything, it's about 12 seconds (I rebuilt my 2 Bible PBs). But now, if I type in something like "ESV", it is almost instantaneous - that aspect has improved considerably.
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Rosie Perera said:
Here's a screencast of it taking 13 seconds to populate that menu:
I suspect that the length of the menu when it finally finishes has a lot to do with it.
It looks like you have a lot (150+) of collections. In a Bible Search, we filter the menu down to those collections that contain Bibles. This is calculated the first time and is cached for subsequent times the menu is dropped down.
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Bradley Grainger said:
In a Bible Search, we filter the menu down to those collections that contain Bibles. This is calculated the first time and is cached for subsequent times the menu is dropped down.
Would that it were so! Unfortunately, it's just as slow on subsequent times the menu is dropped down. Any answers on that?
And I still maintain that this is the sort of "housekeeping" task that could/should be done once during user idle time sometime shortly after the program boots. I've been sitting here idle with Logos running in the background for half an hour or more while I poke around on the forums. Then I returned to Logos to drop down the menu again, and it was that slow. Do you guys do any idle time processing? On Word, we had a routine that was run whenever the program was idle, which would do housekeeping tasks like paginate the current document, autosave, etc. If it got interrupted by some Windows message coming to the app, we'd bail out and come back and pick it up later where we left off.
I suspect things work differently now with multi-threaded apps. I never did learn how to do those during my time at Microsoft. But all the more reason to have some thread just chugging away at idle tasks, which gets bumped down to lower priority when the user is interacting with the app, or some message comes from the system requiring the app to do some work (e.g., new font installed or something).
But populating this menu seems like something that you shouldn't wait to do only on demand. Do it up front and cache it, so that the user's experience with the app is much more snappy. There's no pleasure in having to wait 13-15 seconds for a menu to drop down, no matter how reasonable your excuse may be (yes 150 collections is a lot, but isn't Logos a power app that should be able to handle stuff like that scalably without noticeable degradation in performance?)
I hope I'm not being perceived as just whining. A squeaky wheel, maybe. Please give me some grease! [:)]
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Bradley Grainger said:
It looks like you have a lot (150+) of collections.
150 doesn't sound like a lot to me. Given that metadata is not very reliable and that the Guide encourage small discrete units because of their sort functions, I would expect LOTS of collections.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Bradley Grainger said:
It looks like you have a lot (150+) of collections.
150 doesn't sound like a lot to me. Given that metadata is not very reliable and that the Guide encourage small discrete units because of their sort functions, I would expect LOTS of collections.
Looking in ResourceCollectionManager.db file, noticed table ResourceCollections has 183 rows.
In the Collections Tool, wonder about adding a check box: "Show in Search Menu" ? (similar to "Show in parallel resources")
The Cited By tool has check boxes to filter collections, series, mytags, and ratings for Cited By use. Wonder if Cited By collection list could be used for search menu list when choosing a resource ? (perhaps in same order as Cited By show collections)
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Bradley Grainger said:
I suspect that the length of the menu when it finally finishes has a lot to do with it.
It looks like you have a lot (150+) of collections. In a Bible Search, we filter the menu down to those collections that contain Bibles. This is calculated the first time and is cached for subsequent times the menu is dropped down.
I have 84 collections and the Bible Search dropdown takes perhaps 5s to populate first time, and a second or so subsequently.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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MJ. Smith said:Bradley Grainger said:
It looks like you have a lot (150+) of collections.
150 doesn't sound like a lot to me. Given that metadata is not very reliable and that the Guide encourage small discrete units because of their sort functions, I would expect LOTS of collections.
150 isn't "a lot" - I have around 110 and I'm not using Logos professionally. Actually I wasn't expecting the collections to be a performance burden.
We are told in threads and on the wiki to build these in order to be able to manage the thousands of ressources in our libraries.
So, for commentaries alone, I have a collection for every biblical book, one for one-volume commentaries per testament, one for study bibles, one for all commentaries, then around ten for different levels of commentaries (technical, devotional etc). We're at eigthy now. I have several for the various periods of greek texts, then some to manage the Perseus and the Vyrso ressources.
Of course, Bradley, if you tell us that we shouldn't have more than a dozen collections (ten for weaker machines, twenty for the "mongo" ones), then I can act accordingly. I don't need a collection for "Judges" or "Greek texts 3rd - 5th century" today - but maybe next week or next year. But please in this case, give us the chance to set existing collections as active/inactive, so we don't need to invent/copy and taylor the dynamic rules every time.
Have joy in the Lord!
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I confess that I understand little of what goes on under the hood in Logos 4. However, what I do understand is that there is an index that takes considerable time to build (and rebuild frequently with updates) and that there is a cache: so I really don't understand the kind of answers that suggest that slowdowns are due to real-time listings (collections, resources, etc).
Moreover, though it is true that I have many more resources in Logos 4 than in any other Bible software, I still think that even with few resources, Logos 4 is generally a slower beast. For instance, Wordsearch indexes topics and it is a much faster process to start with. Then searches are also super-fast. Don't get me wrong: I do think Logos 4 is by far a superior product. But I can't help but wondering if instead of blaming the legitimate number of resources, collections or normal processes, there is not really some kind of conceptual flaw to start with which make Logos 4 to act more like an elephant (strong but slow) than a jaguar (strong but agile).
I help regularly folks with very few resources (e-Bibles with something like 50 books) and I can tell you that "super-fast" has never been a word that came to mind to describe the responsiveness of Logos 4.
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NewbieMick said:
Of course, Bradley, if you tell us that we shouldn't have more than a dozen collections
I'm not saying that at all.
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Rosie Perera said:
Unfortunately, it's just as slow on subsequent times the menu is dropped down. Any answers on that?
No, sorry. With 500+ collections, I can reproduce a medium delay (<10s) the first time I open the menu; it's then almost instantaneous the second time. I can't reproduce the problem you're describing.
On further review of your logs, it looks like collections are only contributing two seconds to the time it takes to open the menu, so I retract my previous comments about a "large" number of collections.
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Bradley Grainger said:Rosie Perera said:
Unfortunately, it's just as slow on subsequent times the menu is dropped down. Any answers on that?
No, sorry. With 500+ collections, I can reproduce a medium delay (<10s) the first time I open the menu; it's then almost instantaneous the second time. I can't reproduce the problem you're describing.
On further review of your logs, it looks like collections are only contributing two seconds to the time it takes to open the menu, so I retract my previous comments about a "large" number of collections.
Is there any further diagnosis you can do if I do the more advanced type of diagnostic logging? Could you remind me how to enable that?
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