PBB's Website?
Are you guys aware of any place on the web where someone is organizing and making all of these PBB's available?
Thanks
Comments
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Currently they all get loaded into the files menu.
I was thinking of creating a place on my website to include all of the new items. My website is focused on sharing free Christian resources that are available (legally) across the internet - so it would be a good fit.
Longer term there will be the ability to share them via some method that logos will come up with, but I'm not sure how long that will take? Also, there will be some files which can be shared but not via that method. logos have suggested/said public domain files that they provide in their library will not be shared with this method, or via this forum - which is fair enough. However I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong), they did not "outlaw" sharing public domain books externally regardless of whether they can be purchased via logos.
If people think its a good idea I'll go ahead and set up a trial run. It would be much easier for people to say what fields etc. should be filled in by setting it up well. Regular contributors could have log on accounts so they could add them just as quickly as creating a post here (well almost).
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I meant files forum not menu [:$]
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David,
thanks and please post a link.
Steve
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Steve Clevenger said:
Are you guys aware of any place on the web where someone is organizing and making all of these PBB's available?
I know that Logos intends to have this someday in the future, some mockup or prototype seems to be in place, but there's no info on the potential organization of the files and they are not very clear on wether really all these PBs will be available (they obviously want to avoid PBs being a competition to their own produced resources).
Then there#s Thomas Black's Stilltruth.com, where all the L3 PBBs are hosted, organized by author IIRC, and where Thomas invites people to post L4 PBs (but there are only a small amount and atb the moment he doesn't mirror what is in the Files forum). Many users seem accustomed to go there or point others this way.
Have joy in the Lord!
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Hi Steve,
The link is below. I had a long period last year of not posting having been busy with life but am now "back into the groove" of adding items, though there is a need for a spring clean very soon (particularly the recommended box on page 1 - I'm not sure why some items are on there! In fact I'll probably change that tonight!!!)
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currently the list is maintined on the WIKI,
http://wiki.logos.com/User_Contributed_Personal_Bookspointless having multiple lists
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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DominicM said:
currently the list is maintined on the WIKI,
http://wiki.logos.com/User_Contributed_Personal_Bookspointless having multiple lists
Well, there is a point in having two: Stilltruth can list public domain PB's that compete with Logos resources, which we try to avoid doing here, but I agree that adding a third (fourth, fifth...) site is undesirable, unless everything there is also listed in one or both of the first two places.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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I agree there is no point in duplication for the sake of it.
As fgh points out there will be some that will not be posted here on the forums.
Also, from a usability point a view I expect in about 6 months the list will start to get difficult to find things. But certainly it is great at the moment.
As far as I could see when I last checked Stilltruth had not added any Logos 4.0 PBs. Though I recall Thomas suggested he might/would/could - my memory is hazy!
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I would be more interested in a topical listing than a mirror site. MJ's wiki page is useful, but is in alphabetical order & like the forum will become unwieldy at some point. Is there anyone who might be willing to take on a topical directory of the personal books on the files forum?
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Interesting timing. I have just been experimenting with trying to see if the Wiki page can be improved - particularly if it grows. I've added a proof of concept, which I'd be glad for feedback on. In particular, three questions: is it needed? is it too complicated? are more fields needed (e.g. date added, topic, etc.)
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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looks good Mark
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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David Sawyer said:
As far as I could see when I last checked Stilltruth had not added any Logos 4.0 PBs.
http://www.stilltruth.com/topics/docx
Only three so far, but at least one is in competition with a Logos prepub, and thus isn't supposed to be listed here.
(Btw, Thomas, if you read this: that one (Schaff) has incorrect copyright information: the last preface was written considerably later than the stated copyright date. Fortunately, however, the author of that preface seems to have died in 1941, so presumably the copyright still expired some time last year, at the latest (hopefully before it was put on your site).)
As for the Wiki list, yes, you're right, and it might be time to start dividing it up a bit by type, with separate headings for Bibles, Bible commentaries, Lectionaries and so on.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Wow Mark that is great![Y]
I think having date added would be very useful to quickly see what you may have missed since your last visit. Topic would also be useful, particularly for people that may want to be selective in what they add.
Thinking aloud, what is the merit of including the milestones info here? Is it so that it shows the "quality" if the product? If I see something I like the look of I wouldn't be put off by a lack of page numbers - although I guess also it might also highlight works that need a little more work to make them really good.
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I should have refreshed the page before I hit 'Post' [:$].
I agree, it looks great, Mark. Yes, a way of quickly identifying if you have the latest version would be desirable. And a 'tag' field would be useful too; it could be used for both topic and denomination, and would make it easy to find everything Lutheran, or everything on baptism.
Calvin, the page is actually Rosie's, not MJ's.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Mark Barnes said:
Interesting timing. I have just been experimenting with trying to see if the Wiki page can be improved - particularly if it grows. I've added a proof of concept, which I'd be glad for feedback on. In particular, three questions: is it needed? is it too complicated? are more fields needed (e.g. date added, topic, etc.)
Looks great, Mark. I'd be concerned that the time it takes to add a new entry (create a new page with all the right fields, and then add a link to it in the right table) will mean it won't get updated. Look what happened to our bug tracking database. I think it was just too complicated and time-consuming to keep up with it.
I've had no problem updating the list every week with all the new posts on Files, and others have been adding updates to it as well. I'm happy to have it organized into sections of Bibles, Monographs, whatever, if people think that would be more useful. I recognize that it might grow out of hand at some point, but my design was always only to have it be temporary until Logos gets the PB store online, since that will no doubt have better search and sorting features. I don't yet know whether it will allow people to post freebies, though. All they've said is they won't host anything that competes with public domain works they're selling. But they didn't say anything beyond that.
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Rosie Perera said:
and then add a link to it in the right table) will mean it won't get updated.
The table updates itself. You just need to add the page with the right fields.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Let me also point out that on that Wiki page is a section for Personal Books in Progress or Suggested/Requested. If you're working on a PB that takes more than a day or two to finish, please add it there, so that several people don't waste time working on the same resource.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Oops. Sorry Rosie!
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Mark Barnes said:Rosie Perera said:
and then add a link to it in the right table) will mean it won't get updated.
The table updates itself. You just need to add the page with the right fields.
Well, OK, but it still seems more error prone and time consuming. However, if you want to do that go for it. I would hope you would convert the entire list I've created into your format (it would be bad to have two competing lists), and I would delete mine and bow out of being a major updater. I'd just add my own books in your format. Either method requires one major advocate to keep it going, even if a few others do occasionally add a title here and there. And either method is subject to the "weariness of the creator" disease. Once you or I get tired of it, it falls into disrepair. Mine might be easier for others to take over and keep up with if I get lazy and let it fall behind. Not sure about yours... (again, I cite the bug database as a classic example).
Still, yours is much easier to navigate and looks really spiffy. I might also suggest one more column for "Tradition" (or "Denomination"?), since most of the PB's posted thus far fit strongly into one or another particular tradition: e.g., Lutheran, Restoration Movement, Baptist, Seventh Day Adventist. People looking to pick up PB's might be looking for all the ones in a particular tradition.
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Rosie Perera said:
Still, yours is much easier to navigate and looks really spiffy. I might also suggest one more column for "Tradition" (or "Denomination"?), since most of the PB's posted thus far fit strongly into one or another particular tradition: e.g., Lutheran, Restoration Movement, Baptist, Seventh Day Adventist. People looking to pick up PB's might be looking for all the ones in a particular tradition.
[Y]
Have joy in the Lord!
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NewbieMick said:Rosie Perera said:
I might also suggest one more column for "Tradition" (or "Denomination"?), since most of the PB's posted thus far fit strongly into one or another particular tradition: e.g., Lutheran, Restoration Movement, Baptist, Seventh Day Adventist. People looking to pick up PB's might be looking for all the ones in a particular tradition.
I intended to say that I prefer my own suggestion above about a 'tag' column for both topic and denomination, for the simple reason that there's a limit to how many columns can fit into a page (plus it's slightly more flexible) -- but now I realize Mark has actually found a way to sort by column. I didn't know that was possible. It changes everything. So, yes, if there is a way to fit that many columns into the page I too now vote for a separate denomination column.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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DominicM said:
pointless having multiple lists
edit: I actually agree there should be one, all-inclusive repository of freely available PBB files. There should be multiple sites, each hosting the same collection. There will undoubtedly be denominational file collections that are hosted separately.
I totally disagree. I believe there should be mirror sites (plural), each hosting a comprehensive collection. When you have popular content you use a lot of bandwidth. Putting everything on one site is relying on one SysOp a little too much. What if s/he passes away? Will their spouse have any clue how to maintain the site? There are financial and time factors to be considered.also. Ideally we need three sites mirroring.
There is a question of quality control. Many eSword modules are of poor quality and sometimes violate copyright laws. Will anyone screen submissions? Will files that offend the SysAdmin be hosted? There are lots of things to consider.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super Tramp said:
I actually agree there should be one, all-inclusive repository of freely available PBB files. There should be multiple sites, each hosting the same collection. There will undoubtedly be denominational file collections that are hosted separately.
I totally disagree. I believe there should be mirror sites (plural), each hosting a comprehensive collection. When you have popular content you use a lot of bandwidth. Putting everything on one site is relying on one SysOp a little too much. What if s/he passes away? Will their spouse have any clue how to maintain the site? There are financial and time factors to be considered.also. Ideally we need three sites mirroring.
One all-inclusive list (which is what I was trying to attain with the wiki list) is different from one all-inclusive repository. The list can point to files that are hosted in different places. I don't see bandwidth being an issue ever. Probably only a small percentage of Logos users ever will use PB's (even let's say 25% -- that's probably generous), and only a small percentage of those will be interested in downloading PB's that others have posted, and very few of those will download all of them -- they'll pick and choose based on their interests. And how many people are actually going to discover and want to download the same file on the same day, at the same minute? The chance of there being two or three users doing it at the same time is minuscule, and even then all the servers we host files on could handle that. We're not talking about hundreds or thousands of users wanting at these files 24 hours a day.
As long as people can still post the free stuff in the Files forum, we don't have to worry about any SysOp or anyone passing away or mirror sites. If people want to post their own stuff on their own websites, that's fine. Nobody is obligated to make sure the stuff they share will be available in perpetuity after their lifetime. If others grab it and mirror it elsewhere on the web, all the better. That's the beauty of the Internet. But I don't think we need to formally organize anything like that. Just having one central list that has links to all the known available PBB content around on the web should be sufficient.
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Rosie Perera said:
Well, OK, but it still seems more error prone and time consuming.
This is my concern. I'm certainly not volunteering to take over as editor. Unless someone who wants to maintain it thinks its a good idea, it will remain proof of concept only.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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It would be good to have a forum post in the Files section that was made a sticky that directed uploaders to edit the Wiki page to include their file.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
It would be good to have a forum post in the Files section that was made a sticky that directed uploaders to edit the Wiki page to include their file.
Yes, if some Logos forum moderator notices this perhaps they could add a sticky. We don't have permissions to add sticky thread. Or maybe I could write a thread that could then be promoted to a sticky by a forum moderator?
Anyway, I don't mind continuing to check about once a week for any new posts in the Files forum and adding them to the wiki page. It hasn't been a big burden thus far.
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Rosie Perera said:
One all-inclusive list (which is what I was trying to attain with the wiki list) is different from one all-inclusive repository.
I missed that technicality. But then we will have the issue of broken links.
Rosie Perera said:As long as people can still post the free stuff in the Files forum,
There will inevitably be the conflict between Logos and competing public domain files. If a user posts a public domain file today that Logos does not publish, that file will have to be removed when Logos does get around to publishing the resource. If there are links to outside access of competing files it would violate the spirit of the forum guidelines. I am not trying to throw cold water on the project, I just think it needs to eventually move off-site from Logos.com and include all PBBs people want to submit without regard to competition to Logos. It is the fair way for both parties..
As far as the bandwidth and site maintenance headaches; I had a friend who operated one of the USA's top 100 BBS's. Granted, the bandwidth back then was expensive and very choked but a human still has to attend to the server frequently.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super Tramp said:Rosie Perera said:
One all-inclusive list (which is what I was trying to attain with the wiki list) is different from one all-inclusive repository.
I missed that technicality. But then we will have the issue of broken links.
That's why it's a wiki page, fully user editable. Easy to fix broken links if someone notices them (or remove the entry if that file is no longer available anywhere online). This works for if Logos eventually publishes one of these public domain works and we need to take it down too. We might need to get David or someone to delete the link in the forum post if it's posted in the Files forum. But if the file itself is hosted elsewhere, it's just a matter of removing the corresponding link in the wiki page.
And as I've said before, I'm willing to do this only until such time as Logos rolls out its online store, because then the issues of competing with Logos might get escalated, more people will be doing these things, and it will become harder to maintain the list. And anyway, the storefront will serve as a searchable sortable list already so there's no need to reinvent the wheel.
Super Tramp said:As far as the bandwidth and site maintenance headaches; I had a friend who operated one of the USA's top 100 BBS's. Granted, the bandwidth back then was expensive and very choked but a human still has to attend to the server frequently.
I think you're way overestimating how much interest there's going to be in PB's. This isn't going to get the kind of traffic that one of the USA's top 100 BBS's did. Ask Thomas if he ever had any bandwidth problems maintaining StrillTruth.com. And again, I repeat, the wiki page doesn't have anything to do with bandwidth. People click on those links and get to different servers elsewhere (or the Logos server for things on the Files forum), and those individual sites deal with their own bandwidth issues. Logos won't have a problem. The others seriously won't have a problem. We've got maybe 30 active users on the forums who are excited about the PB's there are there now and have been contributing to them and downloading them. I don't see that expanding more than 10 or maybe 100-fold, even granted that not all PB users are active forum contributors. It is still not going to be anywhere near the order of the top 100 BBS's. And as you pointed out, bandwidth back then was way more choked.
Most servers that we folks are posting things to are maintained by someone else, and we don't have to worry about bandwidth or any of the technical details. Even Thomas who owns his own domain name probably doesn't have his own server, nor have to maintain its uptime himself. It's hosted somewhere and the hosting company takes care of bringing it back up if it's down. I rely on Hostgator.com to take care of those issues for my website. That's what we pay those guys for. Very few people do it the old "private hacker running his own BBS off a server in his basement" way anymore.
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Mark Barnes said:
This is my concern. I'm certainly not volunteering to take over as editor. Unless someone who wants to maintain it thinks its a good idea, it will remain proof of concept only.
Rosie Perera said:Anyway, I don't mind continuing to check about once a week for any new posts in the Files forum and adding them to the wiki page. It hasn't been a big burden thus far.
Surely, if we can get the MVP's and the frequent PB posters to agree to do the Wiki editing themselves when they add something (and to add a note in the Files thread that they've done it), it should be possible to find a group of people willing to take turns adding the rest. I for one would not volunteer to take over permanently, but I'd be willing to do it for a fortnight.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Rosie Perera said:
I think you're way overestimating
You have put my fears to rest. I guess I am an old fogie stuck in the past. (I thought the shotgun modems were really cool.)
Rosie Perera said:Very few people do it the old "private hacker running his own BBS off a server in his basement" way anymore.
[:'(] How I miss the good old days with Bill and Alice in the Dungeon of Doom and Pepsi Cola. [:'(]
clarification: Lest the young-uns get lost in that last lament; Bill and Alice wrote The Hard Edge column of Computer Shopper each month. Bill locked himself in the basement eating delivery pizza, drinking Pepsi, and playing Doom for weeks. Their journalism was most entertaining and made up for Dvorak's and Norton's stuff.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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