Take the Logos 4 speed test . . .

Here are my results:

1. Gui speed.

A. When you have multiple tabs open do you have instant response when you click on an unselected tab? If no what is the approximate lag time?

Lag ranges from instant to about 5 seconds. I can't find out a consistent way to make it lag it just happens some times

Lag is about 5 - 6 seconds on average

C. When you click on a word in a Bible with an interlinear, does the word instantly become highlighted in both the text and the interlinear or is there a lag? If a lag how long?

Lag is 1 - 2 seconds (can be worse if information window is open)

Version 3 = 6 seconds

Version 4 = 35 seconds (a passage guide search with all headings expanded is 80 seconds for me)

Version 3 = 115 seconds

Version 4 = 500 seconds (25 seconds times 20 pages)

C. Using an interlinear with the information tool open, hover over a word. Record the time taken to display all information in both versions.

Version 3 = practically instant

Version 4 = 5 - 10 seconds depending on the word.

B. Do a library search for the word "God" in both V3 and V4. Note the time it takes for both, not only to complete the search, but also to display all search results. (NOTE: in V4 the search results will be divided into pages, and each pave initiates a new search - so to be fare you must multiply your time for page 1 by the number of pages listed at the bottom)

Version 3 = 115 seconds

Version 4 = 500 seconds (25 seconds times 20 pages)

My results were a reverse of yours as v3 took 600s and v4 took 100s. I also realised that the default in v3 is to search all word forms (Stemming), so I changed v4 to Match All Word Forms.

[quote]My results were a reverse of yours as v3 took 600s and v4 took 100s. I also realised that the default in v3 is to search all word forms (Stemming), so I changed v4 to Match All Word Forms.

My system should not be too far off from yours and yet your V4 is performing 5 times faster.

Did you try any of the other tests? do you have any problems with slow GUI?

Robert Pavich

I don't have v3 loaded but here are my results in V4:

1. Gui speed.

A. When you have multiple tabs open do
you have instant response when you click on an unselected tab? If no
what is the approximate lag time?

Instant across the board.

B. When you right click on a word in a
Bible that has an interlinear, is the information in the menu displayed
instantly or is there a lag (If there is a lag how many seconds until
everything is displayed).

Lag is about 1 - 2 seconds on average

C. When you click on a word in a Bible
with an interlinear, does the word instantly become highlighted in both
the text and the interlinear or is there a lag? If a lag how long?

Lag is 1 second (can be worse if information window is open)

2. Search speed. (as speed in this area is
system specific, I think it is only right to post both the speed of
Logos3 and Logos4. Logos3 is our point of reference for search
efficiency and I think all of us expect Version 4 to be faster in this
department)

A. Do a passage guide search in version three for Romans 8:1
with all headings expanded. Do the same passage guide search in V4
(make sure you only have the categories expanded that correspond to the
categories in Version 3's passage guide.) List the time in seconds for
both.

Version4 3 - 4 seconds

B. Do a library search for the word
"God" in both V3 and V4. Note the time it takes for both, not only to
complete the search, but also to display all search results. (NOTE:
in V4 the search results will be divided into pages, and each pave
initiates a new search - so to be fare you must multiply your time for
page 1 by the number of pages listed at the bottom)

Version 3 = 115 seconds

Version 4 = 44 seconds (2.23 seconds times 20 pages)

C. Using an interlinear with the
information tool open, hover over a word. Record the time taken to
display all information in both versions.

Version 4 = 3-4 seconds depending on the word.

TCBlack

1.A 0.5 second lag running Logos with 13 resources and reports. Firefox with 20 tabs, Digsby IM client, Bibleworks 8 with notes, and Openoffice.org

1.B. 0.5 or faster second delay to create a menu, it populates in about five seconds.

1.C. 0.5 second delay

2.A,B. I don't have V3 installed.

1. Gui speed.

A. When you have multiple tabs open do you have instant response when you click on an unselected tab? If no what is the approximate lag time?

Result: Instant response

B. When you right click on a word in a Bible that has an interlinear, is the information in the menu displayed instantly or is there a lag (If there is a lag how many seconds until everything is displayed).

Result: Window pops up instantly, takes up to about 2 seconds (by the sound of the ticking of my office wall clock) to finish displaying options, depending on which item on the right side of the menu is selected.

C. When you click on a word in a Bible with an interlinear, does the word instantly become highlighted in both the text and the interlinear or is there a lag? If a lag how long?

Result: Instant to up to a second.

2. Search speed. (as speed in this area is system specific, I think it is only right to post both the speed of Logos3 and Logos4. Logos3 is our point of reference for search efficiency and I think all of us expect Version 4 to be faster in this department)

A. Do a passage guide search in version three for Romans 8:1 with all headings expanded. Do the same passage guide search in V4 (make sure you only have the categories expanded that correspond to the categories in Version 3's passage guide.) List the time in seconds for both.

Result: V3 (checking all options except my "collections"): 47 seconds; V4: hard to tell, since some of it finishes outside of screen shot. But it looks like about 12 seconds.

B. Do a library search for the word "God" in both V3 and V4. Note the time it takes for both, not only to complete the search, but also to display all search results. (NOTE: in V4 the search results will be divided into pages, and each pave initiates a new search - so to be fare you must multiply your time for page 1 by the number of pages listed at the bottom)

Result (searching all unlocked/entire library): V3: I gave up after 7.5 mintes; V4: about 20 seconds to get to the bottom of the page where there were 20+ more pages waiting.

C. Using an interlinear with the information tool open, hover over a word. Record the time taken to display all information in both versions.

Result (using NA27 interlinear): V3: Instantaneous; V4 about 1 second after mouse stops moving.

Operating system, CPU, Memory amount, video card, hard drive, antivirus and anti-spyware software, etc.

OS: Win7 (64bit); CPU: Intel i7-920 (2.67 GHz 8MB L3 cache); RAM: 6GB; Video: ATI Radeon HD 4850 (512MB); HD: 683GB (466GB free); AV: Norton Internet Security.

TCBlack

OS: Win7 (64bit); CPU: Intel i7-920 (2.67 GHz 8MB L3 cache); RAM: 6GB; Video: ATI Radeon HD 4850 (512MB); HD: 683GB (466GB free); AV: Norton Internet Security.

[:o] that is a serious machine Richard.

3. Here is a reproducible bug on my system. Normally on my system doing a lemma search in a Word study guide displays the results much faster than a regular Bible search does, but the following example makes my system hang anywhere from about 20 seconds to up to 80 seconds.

The word study guide finds all results very quickly, but when I click on the wheel I get the following:

After about 20 to 80 seconds all returns to normal. The same thing happens to me at times when switching between tabs, but I have not been able to consistently reproduce this.

After trying several searches. I have founds some common threads.

1. This only happens with words that are used over 1000 times in the NT.

2. And if I click on a part of the circle that is only used a few times it still hangs (so it is not just the time it takes to display the results).

3. When I go to close the tab of a Bible word study that has a word that is used over 1000 times in the NT it hangs before closing the tab the majority of the time (especially if I have multiple word study tabs open).

Chris Ease

Richard, how much would that machine set me back, without monitor, mouse, spkrs, and keyboard. I have hope for a machine like that in the just under $500 category.[:D]

Richard, how much would that machine set me back, without monitor, mouse, spkrs, and keyboard. I have hope for a machine like that in the just under $500 category

I bought mine from Dell at the end of June for just under $1500. That included a 22" flat screen (very nice too!) and a Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio card (plus the other things I already mentioned). I got the standard keyboard. I may get another one, maybe a bluetooth keyboard & mouse. We'll see.

Logos4 screams with delight on it.

that is a serious machine Rich

I'm Reformed. We're known for being serious. Seriously. My goal: more dour by the hour. [;)]

Thanks, though. It took me a while to save for it, but even at $1500 it wasn't that bad. I bought it directly from Dell, where I customized it to my pref's.

Full Test

1. A <1s Note: L4 in offline mode for all tests

B. 2-3s

C. 1-2s

2. A L3=6s L4=4s Only media used was Bib. People

B. L3=220s L4=100s (it was the first thing I did in L3)

C. L3=Instant L4=3s

but when I click on the wheel I get the following:

I can confirm much the same behaviour. L4 freezes/hangs when I click on the large part of the wheel, using all of 1 core. Also hangs on small part and hangs on Close of tab!

Here is a log file for the bug I detailed above:

7380.Logos4.zip

You can see two hangs - the biggest one being from when I click the "x" to close the Bible word study at 16:22:11 to when the program recovers at 16:23:47. That is 96 seconds to close a tab.

The other is at 16:21:32 until 16:22:11, but again the most significant hang is when I try to close the word study.

TCBlack

I'm Reformed. We're known for being serious. Seriously. My goal: more dour by the hour.

That just belongs in a tagline or facebook posting or something. That's funny.

Andreas Holmberg

Hello Greg

Read about your experience. I come across the same problem a lot of the time when using the Bible Word Study. Your findings are most interesting. I'm not sure, but I think I've encountered the same problem even with words used much less than a 1000 times i NT.

I also get the "Logos not responding"-message and then Logos comes back on after a few seconds. However, my experience is that the program as a whole gets more sluggish after one or two of those "mini-crashes". Is that your experience too? I tend to close and restart the whole program in order to recover speed.

Is this a bug? Are you aware of any solution to the problem?

Kindly,

Andreas Holmberg

[quote]Is this a bug? Are you aware of any solution to the problem?

To me its a bug - but nobody from logos has ever confirmed this.

I have tried all I can think of, and nothing has helped - and as you stated - once it happens its seems to get worse (especially with more than one word study guide opened at a time).

I have had this happen with words used less than 1000 times as well, but I don't consistently get the "not responding message" unless it is with more frequently used words.

Clinton Thomas

1. Gui speed.

1A lag - 2 Seconds

1B lag - 8-10 seconds

1C lag - 3-4 seconds

2. Search speed.

2A-V4 all) 90 Seconds.

2A-V4 subset) 40 seconds

2A-V3) 25 seconds

B. Do a library search for the word
"God" in both V3 and V4.

2B-V4) 45 second * 20 pages

My Content - 364 results

New Resources 482 Results

Library Results 1,762,305

2B-V3) - 37 minutes - 850683 found search still progressing, but I had to go have a life for a while.

C. Using an interlinear with the
information tool open, hover over a word. Record the time taken to
display all information in both versions.

2C-V4) 8 seconds

2C-V3) 2 seconds flash with info,

seconds all info up.

3. Obvious bugs

In test 2A-all) I experienced a 10-12 second black screen of near death which was included in the 90 second total.

System Specs

OS Name    Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Ultimate

Version    6.0.6001 Service Pack 1 Build 6001

Other OS Description     Not Available

OS Manufacturer    Microsoft Corporation

System Name    OFFICE-PC

System Manufacturer    Dell Inc.

System Model    Dimension 4700

System Type    X86-based PC

Processor    Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz, 2992 Mhz, 1 Core(s), 2 Logical Processor(s)

BIOS Version/Date    Dell Inc. A02, 7/19/2004

SMBIOS Version    2.3

Windows Directory    C:\Windows

System Directory    C:\Windows\system32

Boot Device    \Device\HarddiskVolume2

Locale    United States

Hardware Abstraction Layer    Version = "6.0.6001.18000"

Time Zone    Pacific Daylight Time

Installed Physical Memory (RAM)    4.00 GB

Total Physical Memory    3.00 GB

Available Physical Memory    1.16 GB

Total Virtual Memory    6.23 GB

Available Virtual Memory    4.12 GB

Page File Space    3.29 GB

Page File    C:\pagefile.sys

Video

Name    NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT

PNP Device ID    PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0402&SUBSYS_C7563842&REV_A1\4&10D785AA&0&0008

Adapter Type    GeForce 8600 GT, NVIDIA compatible

Adapter Description    NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT

Adapter RAM    512.00 MB (536,870,912 bytes)

Installed Drivers    nvd3dum.dll,nvwgf2um.dll

Driver Version    7.15.11.8250

INF File    oem3.inf (nv_G8x section)

Color Planes    Not Available

Color Table Entries    4294967296

Resolution    1680 x 1050 x 59 hertz

Bits/Pixel    32

Memory Address    0xDE000000-0xDEFFFFFF

Memory Address    0xC0000000-0xCFFFFFFF

Memory Address    0xDC000000-0xDFEFFFFF

I/O Port    0x0000DC80-0x0000DCFF

IRQ Channel    IRQ 16

I/O Port    0x000003B0-0x000003BB

I/O Port    0x000003C0-0x000003DF

Memory Address    0xA0000-0xBFFFF

Driver    c:\windows\system32\drivers\nvlddmkm.sys (7.15.11.8250, 7.38 MB (7,738,816 bytes), 3/28/2009 12:03 AM)

Tom

Great work with the new version! It did take 4 days for me to download 5gig of updates from Iraq Below are my computer specs for my mini. I don't find it an issue to search resources with a delay but it takes a few seconds (3-4) to scroll a few lines which is painful.

Passage Search from main screen: Romans 1 takes 47 seconds

Single window ESV bible jump to 1 Peter takes 3 seconds, scroll down 2-3 seconds lag

Logos4.exe process using 220Mb of Mem

Right Click in ESV on a word - interlinear only takes 4 seconds

Left Click in ESV interlinear takes 4 seconds

I dont mind waiting for searches but scrolling is very hard to deal with. I know I am probably one of the few on a mini, but for 5hrs battery life and small design I can take Logos where ever I need to go.

BTW: Logos works great on my Dell XPS 1330, near instant search time.Little larger notebook but it is for programming, while the mini is for email, logos, kindle, photo album and skype.

OS Name    Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
Version    5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600
OS Manufacturer    Microsoft Corporation
System Manufacturer    Dell Inc.
System Model    Inspiron 1010
System Type    X86-based PC
Processor    x86 Family 6 Model 28 Stepping 2 GenuineIntel ~1330 Mhz
BIOS Version/Date    Dell Inc. A07, 7/23/2009
SMBIOS Version    2.5
Time Zone    Arabic Standard Time
Total Physical Memory    1,024.00 MB
Available Physical Memory    132.52 MB
Total Virtual Memory    2.00 GB
Available Virtual Memory    1.95 GB
Page File Space    2.38 GB
Anti Virus: Norton Symantec Endpoint Protection

David Looney

Richard and Thomas, you are both experience better performance despite my system being considerably better [or at least supposedly].

Thomas

Richard

OS: Win7 (64bit); CPU: Intel i7-920 (2.67 GHz 8MB L3 cache); RAM: 6GB; Video: ATI Radeon HD 4850 (512MB); HD: 683GB (466GB free); AV: Norton Internet Security.

My System:

Experience Index 6, Intel i7-920 (2.66 8MB L3 Cache); 12 Gb DDR3 1600 RAM, three GeForce 9600 512 DDR3 cards (each runing a 23" 1080p monitor), two 1.5 Tb drives running at Raid 0, AV: Norton 360.

Still you guys are having better performance:

Thomas' GUI test: 0.5, 0.5, 0.5

Richard's Results Gui. Instant, instant to 2 sec, instant to 1 sec

My gui results 2sec, 3 sec, 3-4sec.

I know Bob says it's hardware but i have a hard time thinking that's it.

I know Bob says it's hardware but i have a hard time thinking that's it.

My feeling is latency with 3 x High Definition video cards. You can experiment with these if you want. Also 12 GB memory may have higher latency than say 6 - 8 GB with 6 x 2 GB memory sticks vs 3 or 4 sticks. You might want to get dirty with the BIOS settings for memory and CPU timing.

David Looney

My feeling is latency with 3 x High Definition video cards. You can experiment with these if you want

Thanks Dave... I tested Logos by dropping to one video card and dropping the resolution down pretty low. It was the only thing i could think of. That didn't do anything. I might try over clocking the cards once I've watter cooled them all, not sure if i want to do that though.

Also 12 GB memory may have higher latency than say 6 - 8 GB with 6 x 2 GB memory sticks vs 3 or 4 sticks

I have Cosair Dominator's (Cas Latency 8). I took your advice and i'm OC'ing my memory now @1600mhz... i've actually noticed about a .5 sec improvement in GUI test and a major system improvement overall. I've heard slower DDR2 can outperform faster DDR3 due to tighter timing... not sure about that. I guess if Rick and Thomas are both using DDR2 it could explain why they're having better performance.

Thomas and Rick, do you guys mind telling me what kind of memory you're using?

David Fish

David,

Off subject, but are you the son of Clinton Looney?

Jon

My System:

Experience Index 6,

Which test brings your experience index down to a 6?

Also are you running Win7x64?

I have been running Windows 7 64bit for the last couple weeks and have noticed less problems than my 32bit install. I know there can be lots of factors here, but I will redo the test to show the difference.

[quote]1. Gui speed.

A. When you have multiple tabs open do you have instant response when you click on an unselected tab? If no what is the approximate lag time?

Lag ranges from instant to about 5 seconds (32bit). I can't find out a consistent way to make it lag it just happens some times

Lag ranges from instant to 2 seconds (64bit)

Lag is about 5 - 6 seconds on average (32bit)

Lag is about 3-4 (64bit)

C. When you click on a word in a Bible with an interlinear, does the word instantly become highlighted in both the text and the interlinear or is there a lag? If a lag how long?

Lag is 1 - 2 seconds (can be worse if information window is open)(32bit)

pretty consistent at 1 second (even with information window open) (64bit)

Version 3 = 6 seconds

Version 4 = 35 seconds (a passage guide search with all headings expanded is 80 seconds for me)

Version4 = 20 seconds ( A passage guide search for Romans 8:1 with all headings expanded was 55 seconds) (64bit)

Version 3 = 115 seconds

Version 4 = 500 seconds (25 seconds times 20 pages) (64bit)

Version 4 = 200 seconds (10seconds times 20 pages) (64bit)

C. Using an interlinear with the information tool open, hover over a word. Record the time taken to display all information in both versions.

Version 3 = practically instant

Version 4 = 5 - 10 seconds depending on the word.

Version 4 = 4 - 6 seconds depending on the word

As you can see I am getting substantially better results with the 64bit install. Both are set up the same way with the same programs installed same services disabled, etc.

Of course the 64bit install is allowing me access to my full 4GB of memory (2.9GB in 32bit).

Also a note on the times differences between version 3 and 4 searches and passage guide. Since doing my initial comparison I have upgraded my Version 4 package so my version4 install now has 470 more books in it than the version 3 (this also emphasizes how much better the 64bit install is running - I am getting for some things over 50% better times with almost double the books to search through) .

I know Bob says it's hardware but i have a hard time thinking that's it.

I'm starting to think its' a combination of hardware and background services. Someone posted yesterday about getting a significant boost to Logos4 after turning off "Tablet PC Input Services" (turn off and set to "Manual"). See this thread: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/5627/44019.aspx#44019

Now it may not have been that service, but how that service interacted with another. I don't know. But it's a direction to start thinking about. I actually had that service enabled before and turned it off yesterday.

You have Norton 360 and I have Norton Internet Security. There are a few differences between the two that may account for the issue as well. Maybe not, but in the past, at least, Norton has been known to muck things up when it tries to enhance system performance (I don't know if this is still the case).

Then there are issues of driver mismatch. I've written in a few other threads about a problem I had when I upgraded an EVGA nVidia card from a driver at the nVidia site. Wrong chip set: big problems. Uninstalled, found the right driver at EVGA and things worked great. But even if you get the right driver for the right chip set, are they really as optimized for Win7 as they claim?

So somewhere in the multitude of variables between hardware, background software, services and drivers, there's an answer. Finding it is daunting.

[quote]So somewhere in the multitude of variables between hardware, background software, services and drivers, there's an answer. Finding it is daunting.

I partially agree with this - except the statement implies that the problem is with the hardware/drivers/services and that it is the users responsibility to track down the problem. For example if Logos4 is not reacting well to some background service, it is not a problem with our systems, but with Logos4.

Don't get me wrong, the more we can try to narrow things down for the Logos team the better - but to be fair Logos4 does not behave well speed wise on a lot of systems - and it is not hardware dependent (there are great systems performing poorly, and vice versa). I would say that there are deficiencies in the Logos4 code that makes it susceptible to performance hits in several environments at times non-dependent on hardware specs.