Stopped Posting
I have attempted to share files which could be made into pbbs but I also admitted could be worked into better condition.
These posting as almost every other post, has been attacked as and REPORTED to the Forum host as "poor quality" and "compition to LOGOS"
I have just scratched the surface at about 9% or 70+ Docx files.
If the nay sayers are correct Logos will remove these. As for more post.... I really do not have the heart at this time to continue.
God Bless
Jeff
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Jeff, thank you for all your labors. Sorry to say it, but the others are right -- Logos has requested that we not use their forums for sharing free copies of things they sell. Hope I'm not coming across as a "defender" of people who got you angry. But you aren't being rebuffed from sharing these files completely. You are surely allowed to do that, just asked to not do it in Logos's own back yard. It costs them money to host files and keep the servers running. Just last night, for example, poor Cameron Watters and Dan Pritchett were up well past midnight recovering their server after a data center power outage. So it does mean something personally to them that we take seriously their requests not to use their servers to share free files that users might then avoid paying for from Logos. I like to get things for free when I can just as much as the next person. But I'll do it within the boundaries of friendly cooperation with those who make this all possible for me.
Why not post the documents on StillTruth.com, where Tom Black set up a forum for the very purpose of sharing PBBs? He's updated it now so it can host .docx files for L4. http://www.stilltruth.com/topics/docx
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Curious which public domain author you would like to read the most in Logos ?
Suggestion: could search Logos.com first to see if Logos has a product page. Also could check wiki => User Contributed Personal Books to see if public domain document has already been done.
If no product page, then could improve public domain document(s) for posting, which many users have done. For example, Logos does not offer the "Sovereignty of God" by A. W. Pink so thread => The Sovereignty of God, A. W. Pink has a docx file with headings added and chapter endnotes converted into footnotes along with a web site link for a book cover.
Another thought is creating a list of public domain authors, which do not have Logos resources, then posting list to seek Logos user desires for personal books, which could be followed by posting and/or improving docx files for personal book use.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Dear Keep Smiling
I posted because as stated in Bobs previous comments, he did not want to stop public distribution.. I take this to mean.... Any. I am told this is wrong. I have stopped.
The reason I do not think simply looking for Public Domain Work which LOGOS does not represent is simple. Public domain works offer LOGOS the highest profit margin. They pay no royalties. the works are usually readily available for conversion with I am sure much beater book builders than the PBB version we have. SO.. If Pink's "Sovereignty of God" is NOT available on LOGOS as a $$$ book, It will be!!! If I place this book up as a PBB then what? Does it come down later! I fail to see the logic here.
The argument for placing Docx of Public Works is not just to get what is not available in Logos, it is to get what we want out of logos.
Any attempt too surmount this is simply trying to bend the rules ... rule which can easily be made sin in my faith. If Logos really does not want such low grade docx available on their forums simply because a better LOGOS format is available then that is their rights. However if current Logos duplicates are not welcome then one must also realize that future works are not welcome also.
The Minno Simons Works which is available as public domain is a fine example. They are NOT available. HOWEVER LOGOS is working on their version. How do you out guess which works are in the works, about to become in the works? All religious books are potential Logos works.
I know this sounds trivial. I do not wish any more hard feeling with anyone.
I have alway thought and I still think... many people who won LOGOS bible software can not afford buying Public Domain works which they already own in other programs, E books, or just bookmark on the internet. I do believe if PBBs allow for these works to be used within there bible searchs and research (the reason we buy this program,) they should have access to them. Logos has stated (along with Bob) these forums are open?! But until I get another response from the owners, I will post no more - here.
I will continue to praise LOGOS as the best ever Bible Research Tool. I will alos continue to purchase (even the Public Domain works) LOGOS books and collection. I really enjoy my LOGOS. I also love my God. Between the to there is no doubt whom I belong. So PLEASE take any writing which sounds ill or anger as my poor writing or my human condition. I am a sinner, by Grace though I am saved.God Bless, thank you for the kind response, May God Bless
Jeff
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Thank you Rosie, God bless - JEFF
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Fred J. Morgan said:
SO.. If Pink's "Sovereignty of God" is NOT available on LOGOS as a $$ book, It will be!!! If I place this book up as a PBB then what? Does it come down later! I fail to see the logic here.
If Logos does create a "Sovereignty of God" by A.W. Pink, then I would anticipate deletion of thread => The Sovereignty of God, A. W. Pink from Logos servers. The docx file in the thread could freely be hosted on a non-Logos site (e.g. Still Truth).
Fred J. Morgan said:The argument for placing Docx of Public Works is not just to get what is not available in Logos, it is to get what we want out of logos.
Thankful for Logos Personal Book tool so can expand Logos library for awesome study, search, and cross referencing.
After creating several personal books, my appreciation for Logos high quality resources has grown immensely.
Fred J. Morgan said:The Minno Simons Works which is available as public domain is a fine example. They are NOT available. HOWEVER LOGOS is working on their version. How do you out guess which works are in the works, about to become in the works? All religious books are potential Logos works.
As a user, the best I can do is search what Logos has available on their web site, which includes community pricing and pre-publications. Some community pricing titles can take years to gather enough bids to cover 100 % of estimated production costs (e.g. Barnes Notes). Quandary is whether to do personal book(s) while waiting for community pricing knowing if community pricing gathers enough bids for resource development that the docx will not be welcome in the Logos personal book store. Yet having an intermediate personal book resource can be fruitful for study and searching.
If Logos enhances program so can choose not to display chapter and verse numbers, then anticipate thread => American Standard Version 1901 - Personal Bible without Chapter and Verse #'s being deleted, which would be fine with me. Knowing chapter and verse number were not in the original manuscripts, dreaming about option to not display them with the text while showing in location box plus right click menu.
Fred J. Morgan said:I have alway thought and I still think... many people who won LOGOS bible software can not afford buying Public Domain works which they already own in other programs,
The free program "The WORD" has thousands of free modules, including many public domain. Caveat: "The WORD" resource management pales in comparison to Logos 4. The export routine in "The WORD" can be used to format tagged text for personal book use in Logos.
Fred J. Morgan said:I know this sounds trivial. I do not wish any more hard feeling with anyone.
Peace; we passionately share the same desire.
Fred J. Morgan said:I am a sinner, by Grace though I am saved.
As am I, who needs God's mercy daily; Thankful for His Grace. Hoping to walk and do the good works that God has prepared for me to do; would like to express Thanks for His free gift, which is more precious than anything.
Fred J. Morgan said:God Bless, thank you for the kind response, May God Bless
Likewise may God Bless and fill with Peace so His Love can be shared.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Rosie Perera said:
Why not post the documents on StillTruth.com, where Tom Black set up a forum for the very purpose of sharing PBBs? He's updated it now so it can host .docx files for L4. http://www.stilltruth.com/topics/docx
[Y][Y]
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Rosie Perera said:
Why not post the documents on StillTruth.com, where Tom Black set up a forum for the very purpose of sharing PBBs?
Hi Rosie,
There's still an ethical issue... do we have the right to use their PB tool in competition with them by sharing the docx files? My conscience bothers me... (YMMV).
Where would I draw the line? Sharing the docx files... it's one thing to point someone to the CCEL or other source should they want to prepare their own docx file. But isn't it another thing to create & test a docx file for use in Logos' PB builder when they offer the resource? Is Bob / Logos ok with that? If so, then is he ok if we share it elsewhere, just not on Logos' website?
I think I'm going to follow a principle in one of KS4J's posts... if I'm aware (& I'm responsible for at least a cursory check) that Logos has it available or plans to make a book available, I'm not going to build it using their tool.
I think that's where I'm going to draw the line. YMMV.
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
BillS said:
There's still an ethical issue... do we have the right to use their PB tool in competition with them by sharing the docx files? My conscience bothers me... (YMMV).
Thank you Bill for that reminder. I will certainly give it serious thought, and there is no question that it is always unwise to ignore ones conscience.
In Christ,
Nord
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BillS said:
There's still an ethical issue... do we have the right to use their PB tool in competition with them by sharing the docx files?
Stilltruth had files with L3 that were also books sold by Logos and Thomas Black has always had good a relationship with them. The PB tool was developed from money provided by people like me who buy their books. They didn't have to develop the PB tool, but they did do it with money that came from sales. I would say the PB tool is mine now, not theirs. Isn't it a principle of Scripture that once someone gives you something, it is yours to use however you want?
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
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BillS said:
Where would I draw the line? Sharing the docx files... it's one thing to point someone to the CCEL or other source should they want to prepare their own docx file. But isn't it another thing to create & test a docx file for use in Logos' PB builder when they offer the resource? Is Bob / Logos ok with that? If so, then is he ok if we share it elsewhere, just not on Logos' website?
I think Bob is OK if we share them elsewhere just not on his site. However I personally wouldn't use (nor share) docx's for books that Logos sells. If it's a different translation of the same ancient work that's another story. Or if I'd done the work to convert it to a PB before Logos created the resource, I will keep my copy since I'm guessing it's got fewer typos in it than the Logos edition (based on my experience finding typos in their public domain works and how thorough I am at fixing them). But I still wouldn't share my work in that case if the book were available in Logos. I've never posted anything on StillTruth anyway, so this is all kind of a moot point for me. If I had posted something on the Logos forums that I later found out Logos had produced a resource for, I would request that they delete my thread from the forum.
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This conversation is intriguing to me. One the one hand I wholeheartedly agree that we should not have Logos hosting competing public domain works on their servers, on the other hand I see nothing wrong with the sharing of any pd docx file with other users. But that is just me, I imagine everyone as his or her conscious leads, within the letter of the law of course.
A strange thought crossed my mind though, could you imagine the outcry if a person tried to compile a pd work only to get an error that states: "This document cannot be compiled in Logos, but if you would like to purchase the copy we have for sale..."
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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It's been my experience that if my conscience bothers me, I don't help matters by rationalizing... (Can't dig my way out of a hole.)Jerry M said:Isn't it a principle of Scripture that once someone gives you something, it is yours to use however you want?
YMMV (your mileage may vary), so I carefully worded my post in the 1st person as DESCRIPTIVE, not PRESCRIPTIVE... Nevertheless, I'd commend to you to heed your conscience, whichever way the Spirit is speaking to you on this issue.
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
Rosie Perera said:
...I personally wouldn't use (nor share) docx's for books that Logos sells. If it's a different translation of the same ancient work that's another story. Or if I'd done the work to convert it to a PB before Logos created the resource, I will keep my copy since I'm guessing it's got fewer typos in it than the Logos edition (based on my experience finding typos in their public domain works and how thorough I am at fixing them). But I still wouldn't share my work in that case if the book were available in Logos. I've never posted anything on StillTruth anyway, so this is all kind of a moot point for me. If I had posted something on the Logos forums that I later found out Logos had produced a resource for, I would request that they delete my thread from the forum.
I'm with you, Rosie...
Rosie Perera said:I think Bob is OK if we share them elsewhere just not on his site.
Sure be good to hear Bob weigh in...
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
Paul Golder said:
A strange thought crossed my mind though, could you imagine the outcry if a person tried to compile a pd work only to get an error that states: "This document cannot be compiled in Logos, but if you would like to purchase the copy we have for sale..."
[+o(]
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
BillS said:
It's been my experience that if my conscience bothers me, I don't help matters by rationalizing
Blessed are the pure in heart. A clean conscience and inner happiness go hand in hand.
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
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Jerry M said:
Isn't it a principle of Scripture that once someone gives you something, it is yours to use however you want?
Not sure I am familiar with that Scripture. Do you have a reference?
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Jack Caviness said:
Do you have a reference?
Gen. 1:28-30 and Acts 5:4a. Logos didn't put any restrictions on the tool other than not to violate the intention of the purpose of the forums. So I agree we should not post files that Logos sells on this forum. There is also the larger issue of relationships to others that comes into play. For example, if you give your child a car you would expect him/her not to abuse it even if you didn't specifically say so. In the same way we should be careful not to offend God in our use of what is given to us. However, I cannot really see how, if we own the tool and use a public file and share these from another web site how that has anything to do with Logos. If some do see precisely what is wrong with it, I guess they could articulate it. Either way it is fitting that we respect the conscience of another and they do not restrict others freedom. Isn't that a principle of Scripture?
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
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Jerry M said:
Gen. 1:28-30 and Acts 5:4a.
Thank you for satisfying my curiosity. Will not comment further.
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