I can't believe its almost here (arriving 5/23) . . .
http://www.logo.com/product/4679/biblical-languages-reference-grammars-and-introductions
Smyth! Swete! So many more. I've been waiting for years (2009).
URL should be:
http://www.logos.com/product/4679/biblical-languages-reference-grammars-and-introductions
-Donnie
Even with the last minute delay posted today, it's still a VERY BIG DEAL for us who have been waiting. It's such a big deal I got carried away and started "shouting" a bit. So back to the decorum for which retired pastors used to be noted[:)]
people do realize that many of these works have been updated since the editions released in this collection, that some works have been superceded (especially Hebrew ones), some are pretty useless unless you have very advanced Greek (Goodwin's excellent book for example) and that the others are probably available on Google Books?
I am, to say the least, surprised that this set made it into production, while the immensely useful Migne Patrologia set languishes.
I would like Goodwin and the Syriac works, but since the latter don't work on Logos functionally yet (though I suppose someone fluent in it could ignore the fact that we don't always know what letter we're looking at), I'll have to hope they'll be separately sold eventually. I'm not going to buy out-of-date editions of Smyth and Allen and Greenough.
people do realize that many of these works have been updated since the editions released in this collection, that some works have been superceded (especially Hebrew ones), some are pretty useless unless you have very advanced Greek (Goodwin's excellent book for example) and that the others are probably available on Google Books? I am, to say the least, surprised that this set made it into production, while the immensely useful Migne Patrologia set languishes. I would like Goodwin and the Syriac works, but since the latter don't work on Logos functionally yet (though I suppose someone fluent in it could ignore the fact that we don't always know what letter we're looking at), I'll have to hope they'll be separately sold eventually. I'm not going to buy out-of-date editions of Smyth and Allen and Greenough.
Don't "all alone bewail [your] outcast fate." Just encourage others to jump on the Migne wagon.
Hi, Dean,
I'm very much aware that Smyth is old. But have you tried to use the electronic edition of Smyth available from http://www.textkit.com/ , for example? I want the functionality of Logos. And I want this functionality for the Septuagintal works and for a comprehensive Latin grammar.
Of course old books need to be used critically, like new ones for that matter. Sometimes old works provide perspectives that complement "the latest and greatest." So your timely warning to look underneath breathless claims from sales departments needs, IMHO, to be balanced by the fact that some of us, with eyes wide open, are ready to pay big bucks for the few volumes we want and for the functionality that comes with them. As a matter of fact, say paying $50 @ for, say, five volumes we really want isn't outlandish at all, especially with the functionality received.
Shalom, shalom, Steve
Hi, Dean, I'm very much aware that Smyth is old. But have you tried to use the electronic edition of Smyth available from http://www.textkit.com/ , for example? I want the functionality of Logos. And I want this functionality for the Septuagintal works and for a comprehensive Latin grammar. Of course old books need to be used critically, like new ones for that matter. Sometimes old works provide perspectives that complement "the latest and greatest." So your timely warning to look underneath breathless claims from sales departments needs, IMHO, to be balanced by the fact that some of us, with eyes wide open, are ready to pay big bucks for the few volumes we want and for the functionality that comes with them. As a matter of fact, say paying $50 @ for, say, five volumes we really want isn't outlandish at all, especially with the functionality received. Shalom, shalom, Steve
Hi Steve, if the volumes were the updated editions, I'd be seriously tempted too.
Allen and Greenough has been updated by Mahoney; Smyth has been updated: I don't think I could look up the Logos edition without pulling the updated versions off my shelf to check, so I might as well go straight to the shelf. But if you're aware of that and have made a choice anyway, I respect that.
But this set isn't cheap. It just seems to me that if Logos is going to offer these, and put all that work into them, and at this price, they might as well get the editions that are actually used in schools and colleges, and which have been updated, instead of the old versions. The latest versions would have been a smart move just in terms of having a function as textbooks in classes also; the ones offered aren't the classroom versions.
I'm a great fan of the older commentaries with their rigorous argumentation and historical insights, but the same comparison doesn't stand up in this field imo. Linguistics does change things, especially in the field of Semitics, which has made so much progress in the past century.
If the Hebrew grammars represented recent discoveries (which have in many ways made the old ones obsolete), and if the versions of Smyth etc were the most recent, then this would be a reasonable deal (not a bargain, mind you), at $250. But throwing together a load of old works and expending all that effort simply to get superseded works up in Logos doesn't make much sense to me, and I am surprised to see the interest in it; meanwhile some absolute steals (Jastrow's Dictionary of the Targumim; Socrates' four Greek volumes including a Byzantine Greek lexicon; von Soden's Greek NT; Migne's Patrologia) are struggling.
I just fear people see the names like Greenough and Allen, and Smyth, and think that they are getting the same works that are assigned for classes or sold on Amazon; they aren't--they are getting long-forgotten and long-since consulted versions of them.
The preface to the 1956 edition of Smyth is mostly an explanation of how much they would have LIKED to update the book, if money was no object (they were still dealing with 'plates' back then), but how in the end, rather few changes were made. Only 2 changes were significant enough to affect paragraph numbering or pagination.
Getting licenses to copyrighted material can be a long process. In the case of Smyth, this was an issue where we had a choice between offering nothing at all, or offering the 1920 edition that is substantially the same as the later edition. And because the paragraph numbering and pagination are the same between these editions, we can also start tagging links to this important grammar from other books in your library, and if we ever do get the 1956 edition, those links will move over seamlessly. I too wish we had the 1956 edition, but I think this is a case where having the 1920, with all its linking potential, is exceedingly better than nothing.
When putting this collection together, I was mainly looking at what public domain Greek and Hebrew books were respected enough that they've been continually reprinted and important enough that they are commonly cited in the literature. That's a different set of criteria than 'has this book been superseded by anything else?', which is only an interesting criteria if you can only have one book on a topic and if you're not interested in following citations from other literature. Even so, there are books in this collection that haven't been superseded despite their age. I'm unaware of an English language grammar for the Septuagint, for example, that is more thorough than Thackeray.
Looks like a good set to have. Moving it to my wishlist.
Greetings, Vincent,
Thank you very much for your explanations. I had wondered if licensing were an issue. I hesitated for many months before deciding to sign on for the pre-pub because, while I really wanted Smyth, $250 very steep for me. But then I got to thinking about Thackery and a few of the other titles and jumped in.
Steve
The way I figure it is that there are six or seven titles I'd gladly pay $40 each for to have in Logos. With all the cites/references, coding these works must be very intensive. The other works are just a bonus to me. (Former Classics grad student here).
