Prioritizing isn't working.... Can anyone help?
It is very possible that I'm doing something wrong. But I have never noticed this before. I began noticing today that my fav Bible Dictionary (ABD) isn't the first listing in my search results. On a simple search like FAITH, I get all sorts of resources at the top of the search results including resources I do not have prioritized. ABD can be found if I scrolled way down the page. As you can see, NDBT (New Dictionary of Bible Theology) shows first but isn't even a prioritized resource.
Whats going on here?
In HIS Eternal Service,
Tom Castle
**If we will do God's work, in God's way, at God's time, with God's power, we shall have God's blessings!!**
Comments
-
As far as I know, search results does not take into account our prioritizing. It uses (IMHO) a worthless algorithm to sort the items.
0 -
REALLY? Is this right? Not doubting you, Bro. Tom. Just exclaiming my surprise at this.
What, then, is the purpose of prioritizing again?
In HIS Eternal Service,
Tom Castle
**If we will do God's work, in God's way, at God's time, with God's power, we shall have God's blessings!!**0 -
It looks to me like it's searching a collection named "Dictionaries". Check collections and see if the search is returning the order of your references listed in a collection,,
Dell Lap Top Win 10_Home, Logos 7,
Samsung gs7 phone
0 -
Darrell said:
It looks to me like it's searching a collection named "Dictionaries". Check collections and see if the search is returning the order of your references listed in a collection,,
You cannot manually adjust the order of resources in a collection. The NBDT is not in my priority list but it is certainly part of the collection as that collection is just ALL of my type:encyclopedia resources.
I was under the impression that prioritization affected the search results. It is highly possible, and even more highly likely, that I was mistaken.
Again, what then is the purpose of prioritization and what are it's limitations?
In HIS Eternal Service,
Tom Castle
**If we will do God's work, in God's way, at God's time, with God's power, we shall have God's blessings!!**0 -
Tom, if you were in Hebrews 11 for example and right clicked on faith and then clicked on selection in the popup, AYBD would show up on the left at the bottom. That is one advantage of prioritizing. Another would be in a Bible Word Study, where AYBD would show up as a hyperlink. I am not sure, but it seems that your conclusions about search are accurate. Ranked as a category in search isn't the same thing as prioritization.
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
Wiki Table of Contents0 -
You could adjust the order of the references in a collection if you wanted to take the time to go to your library and add a numerical value to the beginning of the name of the reference, this would make the references take the order you give them by number. It would reorder the library listing and the collection listing.
It will search by your prioritization if you search the entire library and of course there you can drag the references to the order you want in the priority list.
Dell Lap Top Win 10_Home, Logos 7,
Samsung gs7 phone
0 -
To answer your question then, prioritizing affects the results in tools and guides. In search you can search AYBD by itself or in a collection or from a right click, but if it is a search from a collection then it doesn't necessarily show up first, except that it starts with the letter A, which affects searches dependent on title. Of course there could be more to this than I am seeing.
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
Wiki Table of Contents0 -
This is a good tip Darrell.. I did this to NICNT in my library to get them to show in canonical order, also I have collections of commentaries in the collections tool which are ordered in canonical order this way.Darrell said:add a numerical value to the beginning of the name of the reference
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
Wiki Table of Contents0 -
Jerry already responded to this question. I always have my results listed by title. Listing them by ranked or by count is simply worthless to me.Tom Castle said:Again, what then is the purpose of prioritization and what are it's limitations?
0 -
tom collinge said:
Jerry already responded to this question. I always have my results listed by title. Listing them by ranked or by count is simply worthless to me.Tom Castle said:Again, what then is the purpose of prioritization and what are it's limitations?
This is what I've been doing in the mean time. I like this return just fine. Was just curious about the expected or unexpected behavior of the search with prioritization.
In HIS Eternal Service,
Tom Castle
**If we will do God's work, in God's way, at God's time, with God's power, we shall have God's blessings!!**0 -
Darrell said:
You could adjust the order of the references in a collection if you wanted to take the time to go to your library and add a numerical value to the beginning of the name of the reference, this would make the references take the order you give them by number. It would reorder the library listing and the collection listing.
It will search by your prioritization if you search the entire library and of course there you can drag the references to the order you want in the priority list.
Would this change the results of the search as far as order? Tom's post above seems to indicate that the search uses a ranking algorithm (arbitrary or not).
In HIS Eternal Service,
Tom Castle
**If we will do God's work, in God's way, at God's time, with God's power, we shall have God's blessings!!**0 -
Yes it works quiet well, You can promote within the collection while demoting within the priority list. I like using it with the English bibles to force the order from the oldest translation to the newest. Then when using the collection to compare a passage it shows the more subtle changes of the language over time, sometimes it can make the not so obvious, obvious.
Dell Lap Top Win 10_Home, Logos 7,
Samsung gs7 phone
0 -
That would depend on where you are directing your search,, if you are searching a collection then yes, it would affect the order of the returned results.
If your searching the whole library it should return according to your priority list if you have one put together, otherwise I believe it would return results based on the software looking at your library in general.
Dell Lap Top Win 10_Home, Logos 7,
Samsung gs7 phone
0 -
Darrell said:
Yes it works quiet well, You can promote within the collection while demoting within the priority list. I like using it with the English bibles to force the order from the oldest translation to the newest. Then when using the collection to compare a passage it shows the more subtle changes of the language over time, sometimes it can make the not so obvious, obvious.
Darrell, can you show me with screen prints what you are talking about. I am confused, and it looks like that I will also be learning something.
0 -
I have never been able to search my library, and have the results sorted based on my priority list. Can you also please show us how to do this. Thanks.Darrell said:If your searching the whole library it should return according to your priority list if you have one put together, otherwise I believe it would return results based on the software looking at your library in general.
0 -
I agree. I have never been able to do this and would like to. Would you mind posting some screen shots and steps, Darrell?
In HIS Eternal Service,
Tom Castle
**If we will do God's work, in God's way, at God's time, with God's power, we shall have God's blessings!!**0 -
Personally not know Rank algorithm for sorting results. In contrast, the definition section in Bible Word Study does show headword entries in prioritized order:
Keep Smiling [:)]
0 -
Tom Castle said:Darrell said:
You could adjust the order of the references in a collection if you wanted to take the time to go to your library and add a numerical value to the beginning of the name of the reference, this would make the references take the order you give them by number. It would reorder the library listing and the collection listing.
It will search by your prioritization if you search the entire library and of course there you can drag the references to the order you want in the priority list.
Would this change the results of the search as far as order? Tom's post above seems to indicate that the search uses a ranking algorithm (arbitrary or not).
Basic Search results are not affected by the way you Prioritize resources in Library. You can order Basic Search results by Count, by Title or Ranked; where the latter is an algorithm that determines the importance or relevance of the results (you will see that the results from one resource are intermingled with results from other resources). If you add a numerical value to the beginning of the name of a resource it will only affect the order of the results when you search by Title.
Bible Search and Morph Search results are affected by the way you Prioritize your bibles, though.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
On the right my library with the upper part of my priority
list showing, notice the numbers added to the front of the names, but in my
priority list I drag my top 5 bibles to the order I want regardless of the preceding
number.On the left is a collection of English bibles with the order
being determined by the numbers assigned in my library.
Now a text comparison using my English bible collection. The
order follows the numbering I gave them.
Without the numbers the bibles would be ordered alphabetically.
Dell Lap Top Win 10_Home, Logos 7,
Samsung gs7 phone
0 -
Thanks Dave the explanation, you rescued me,,
Dell Lap Top Win 10_Home, Logos 7,
Samsung gs7 phone
0 -
Darrell said:
Now a text comparison using my English bible collection. The
order follows the numbering I gave them.
Without the numbers the bibles would be ordered alphabetically.Personally living and learning that Text Comparison sorts Bibles by full title while showing abbreviated title.
Modified many of my Bible titles to add a prefix with year of publication so Text Comparison now sorts from oldest to newest:
Bible Search shows abbreviated titles in prioritized order.
Keep Smiling [:)]
0 -
I've got an explanation for exactly what prioritisation is good for on my video, here, which you might find helpful: http://www.logos4training.com/videos/prioritizing/
The simple rule is that prioritising works for look-ups, but not for searches. That includes Topic Searching, commentary lookups in the Passage Guide, Dictionary Lookup in the exegetical guide, the parallel resource menu, right-click lookups and so on.
The search ranking mechanism ranks according to the density of search results. So an article of 1,000 words that mentions your search term 5 times will appear above an article of 10,000 words that mentions your search term 40 times, but below an article of 100 words that mentions your search term once. What constitutes an article depends on context, but for most resources articles begin and end whenever there is a new heading in the TOC (so for Bibles each chapter is an article).
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
0 -
Thanks Mark, this is what I was thinking too, but I was open to hopefully find a workaround to the (IMHO) worthless ranking algorithm. IMHO, we should do the same thing with search (and the collections section part of PG) that is done in the text critical studies; items need to be weighted, not counted. What needs to be weighed the most (for me) is the source that it comes from, not how many times in appears in an article of x number of words.Mark Barnes said:The simple rule is that prioritising works for look-ups, but not for searches. That includes Topic Searching, commentary lookups in the Passage Guide, Dictionary Lookup in the exegetical guide, the parallel resource menu, right-click lookups and so on.
0 -
tom collinge said:
What needs to be weighed the most (for me) is the source that it comes from, not how many times in appears in an article of x number of words.
If you rate all your resources, you can the easily search all the four or five starred resources. I do this fairly frequently. Or, if searching your entire library doesn't return many results, search By Count, and then manually pick out the results in resources that look most useful.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
0 -
Rating takes too much work. When I search, I simply list it by title. I would love to be able to do this in the PG. I added this to uservoice (http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/suggestions/1338685-collections-section-of-the-passage-guide-should-), but it only has 27 votes in over a year and a half.Mark Barnes said:If you rate all your resources, you can the easily search all the four or five starred resources. I do this fairly frequently. Or, if searching your entire library doesn't return many results, search By Count, and then manually pick out the results in resources that look most useful.
0 -
KS4J, I like your method better better, it brings the date of the translation into the comparison view,, very good, I'll make that adjustment, Thanks
Dell Lap Top Win 10_Home, Logos 7,
Samsung gs7 phone
0 -
Excellent video Mark, I hadn't seen this one, Thank You,,
Dell Lap Top Win 10_Home, Logos 7,
Samsung gs7 phone
0 -
Going back to Mark's explanation of 'density' (which his description is good).
If the word usage is unusual (which in my case it almost always is; that is why I'm searching), then the opposite of what I prefer is likely to happen ...
The smallest resources (which are often marginal) will be first; the larger resources (which are typically my go-to's) will be last. At least in a simplified example.
Yesterday's search was for the Jerusalem gate that the Talmud defined as the boundary of purity. But if I remember right, it ranked the Jerusalem Talmud and Babyonian Talmud near the top, and the Archaeology resource (the one I wanted) near the bottom.
Anyway, I hit the 'Sort by Tilte' and got what I wanted. I like the prioritization idea.
Plus I notice writing this that 'archaeology' is not allowed in the spelling dictionary.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
DMB said:
The smallest resources (which are often marginal) will be first; the larger resources (which are typically my go-to's) will be last. At least in a simplified example.
Yes, this is quite true. It's also why Bibles can often dominate the early part of ranked search results (because they have small 'articles').
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
0
