Kindle?
Comments
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Now that Amazon is planning a "Kindle App Store" (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13577_3-10438661-36.html). Logos can theoritically make a Logos 4 App for Kindle. That would be really cool!
Then again, we have one Kindle in the house and my wife uses mine all the time, so I spend most of the time reading my Kindle (and Logos) books on my Iphone!
--Alex
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Alejandro Gonzalez said:
Now that Amazon is planning a "Kindle App Store" (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13577_3-10438661-36.html). Logos can theoritically make a Logos 4 App for Kindle. That would be really cool!
Then again, we have one Kindle in the house and my wife uses mine all the time, so I spend most of the time reading my Kindle (and Logos) books on my Iphone!
--Alex
It would be fantastic to have a full-blown Logos app on the Kindle, but I would settle for just being able to export my books legally and conveniently from Logos to the Kindle. I fear, however, that attention might be directed towards the iSlate (presuming it exists) come Wednesday...
Oh well, something else to add to my Birthday list! [;)]
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Andy Evans said:
Oh well, something else to add to my Birthday list!
My birthday is only three weeks away, so can they please hurry up. [^]
I do hope there will be an app for the kindle, I think I prefer to have a kindle above the iPod, it's a bit bigger screen.Mat 6:33
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A.A. van der Leij said:
My birthday is only three weeks away, so can they please hurry up.
I do hope there will be an app for the kindle, I think I prefer to have a kindle above the iPod, it's a bit bigger screen.I agree that the Kindle is a far superior reading experience to the iPod... However, the rumour is that the iSlate will have a 10" screen... now that is tempting... I suspect the price may be the thing that restrains me... for now!
Having said that, my Birthday is not until May, so that gives me a little longer than you to save! [:D]
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Andy Evans said:
Having said that, my Birthday is not until May, so that gives me a little longer than you to save!
Well, the money is there, I'm just waiting for the app[:S]
Mat 6:33
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Andy Evans said:
I agree that the Kindle is a far superior reading experience to the iPod... However, the rumour is that the iSlate will have a 10" screen... now that is tempting... I suspect the price may be the thing that restrains me... for now!
If you want to see me fall off a chair laughing hysterically, just come on over after they announce everything IF there is not an apple tablet. All the talking heads and all the kings horses won't be able to put Apple together again. Doubt it is going to happen but it would be delicious.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Well, apparently Apple is going to make an anouncement on the 26th of January, in a place where they usually announce new products. Also specifiactions have been leaked, and the purchases of groundmaterial has increased. The domain names iSlate are also in the possesion of Apple. All in all, it seems it's gonna happen. The question is when it will be on the market, and for how much. All apps of the iPod should also be able to run on the iSlate, which would mean that Logos should also work on it. If this is gonna happen, I'm gonna wait for it, let's see what they have to say on Tuesday.
Mat 6:33
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I am very excited for the 26th! I just hope they use that new technology I saw on recently (http://www.netbookchoice.com/2010/01/08/pixel-qi’s-3qi-hybrid-display-shown-off-at-ces-video/) where you have an option of turning off the backlight and switching between e-ink mode and normal mode. It is hard to read for a very long time on a computer or iphone, due to the backlight.
--Alex
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I agree completely. When I want to study, I will use logos on my computer. As a new owner of a kindle, the reason I bought was to read, and I have no doubt that if a logos app for the kindle would be created, I'd spend an inordinate amount of time reading books on the kindle that are in my logos library. I'm not as likely to do that on an iphone or itouch or ipad, as I think the e-ink lends itself to longer periods of reading. And I don't really want to do all that much highlighting, taking notes etc. I realize some might want to do that with their logos material if it was on a device like kindle, but I think if Bob and the Logos team could simply develop a kindle app with the new app store, which would access my logos books, I would read the hundreds of books I have in Logos format... man I can just imagine sitting down and reading through Luther's Works, or the Leadership Library, soaking it all in. I'm not as likely to do that in front of my computer, or with the i-line of hardware, as I do think Kindle or other eink e-readers are a great tool to do exactly that... read... Any thoughts Bob and Team Logos! BTW, looking forward to warmer weather so I can begin to wear my Logos Cycling jersey, which is totally off topic! [:D]
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I'd also like to add my vote for the development of a Logos for Kindle (or any other e-reader which uses the digital ink). I think such an agreement might be an immensely helpful both to Logos and to the producer of whatever e-reader the agreement was reached with.I know that personally, if Logos announced a partnership with Kindle today, I'd buy a Kindle tomorrow. not only would this obviously increased Kindle sales, I think it make people more likely to purchase Logos books as well.I know I've heard many people complain that although it's great to have books and Logos. They really would want to buy anything other than reference material. I personally buy books, I know I'll just read and Logos format, but the eyestrain is definitely a drawback. Having the volumes available for reading in Kindle would definitely make the reading experience more enjoyable. Personally, I think such a move would be a huge step forward even if it didn't come with anything but the books themselves.
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Robert C. Kuefner Jr. said:
I realize some might want to do that with their logos material if it was on a device like kindle, but I think if Bob and the Logos team could simply develop a kindle app with the new app store, which would access my logos books, I would read the hundreds of books I have in Logos format... man I can just imagine sitting down and reading through Luther's Works, or the Leadership Library, soaking it all in.
Bob, I agree.
One thing that would be important to me though, is that I DO LIKE to highlight.
So being able to read a book, highlight it on L4, then go to the Kindle and have the highlights already done show up, would really be great.
Going to the doctor's office is a great place for me to pull out my iPhone and proceed reading, where I left off. Then go back home and my Kindle has the changes in location noted and I read from where I took off.
I suspect that within 5 years, there will be some big changes to how ebooks work. For one, there will be more flexibility in reading some file formats on other devices. Perhaps Amazon will not permit other devices to read theirs, but you can already read Kindle on iPhone and on the PC. If Amazon permitted copying a .mobi file, then there would be little to hold them back.
Of course, the color might be nice. What I did with my Olivetree stuff is set a beige background with dark brown letters. Quite easy on my eyes.
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I would like to see Logos for Kindle as well.
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I received an email this morning from amazon.com evidently you can now install a Kindle app on your desktop. Is Logos going to create an app for Kindle?
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I read my Logos 4 Library on my Kindle everyday. Use the Web browser to access the mobile site. (library.logos.com) I logged in a long time ago with the basic browser and now access my Library with the browser in Advanced Mode. Not being Java enabled limits some features, but I read everyday without having to break out the laptop.
Rob
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Rob,
thanks for the tip.. .I used advanced mode and it worked! I'd still like to see an actual kindle app if it'd be possible, but this works, and allows me to get access to my books on my kindle so I can't complain...
Blessings,
Rob
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Rob and Rob,
Can you enlarge the font size for reading using this method?
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yes.
This has been possible with what I have been reading but like I
said, no java, so some things are not going to work right. (Like the
search box, you have to enter a edit mode by typing a character, then
manually deleting the default entry in order to enter your search
terms. Results are handled just fine though).Rob
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Robert Balsinger said:
I read my Logos 4 Library on my Kindle everyday. Use the Web browser to access the mobile site. (library.logos.com) I logged in a long time ago with the basic browser and now access my Library with the browser in Advanced Mode. Not being Java enabled limits some features, but I read everyday without having to break out the laptop.
Rob
Alas, the browser is disabled for international Kindle users... and I am based in the UK.
It is good that those based in the US are able to access their library on the Kindle... A Kindle app would be good for those of us who are based elsewhere in the world (and I suspect preferable to the browser for those based in the US).
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This was the first time I tried it as I didn't even know the Kindle had an advanced mode. It is ok. A little slow. But nice to have.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Robert Balsinger said:
I read my Logos 4 Library on my Kindle everyday. Use the Web browser to access the mobile site. (library.logos.com) I logged in a long time ago with the basic browser and now access my Library with the browser in Advanced Mode. Not being Java enabled limits some features, but I read everyday without having to break out the laptop.
ROB!!!
You know what you did?
You have fed my addiction!!!
I notice that the list of books is the same as what shows up on my iPhone, so I am still missing those resources, which Logos has still not gotten permission for. I was hoping (silly me), that the resources shown would be compatible with the actual list on L4; not the list on the iPhone.
I notice however, that I was able to open these resources, by going the route you "enlightened us" upon.
So thanks!!
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New to online access. Can I access my library online with the kindle with Libronix? I haven't updated to Logos.
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Any chance that someone could make a video of this and post it on YouTube or some other site? I would be really interested to see how this works, as well as how the quality compares to my imagination.
It seems great, but I also know that technology can seem better than it actually is. I've heard that the Kindle turns pages slowly, so I'd also be interested in seeing what that would be like.
(Does this mean that the BN reader and others can also access Logos online?)
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Joel J. said:
Any chance that someone could make a video of this and post it on YouTube or some other site? I would be really interested to see how this works, as well as how the quality compares to my imagination.
It seems great, but I also know that technology can seem better than it actually is. I've heard that the Kindle turns pages slowly, so I'd also be interested in seeing what that would be like.
(Does this mean that the BN reader and others can also access Logos online?)
It really has nothing to do with the reader, as much as it has to do with a device's ability to access the Internet.
In the same way a person might access their Logos from work, assuming they did not have L4 on their work machine, you can access your books thru this interface.
I tried it last night and here is what I found.
If you have a Kindle, there is an "Experimental" tab in the MENU dropdown. One is Basic Internet. From there, you just type in the web address indicated a few messages above. It is VERY SLOW. Once it worked though, it worked! All the books I see on my iPhone are available in this format.
But this is not a substitute for an iPhone. It is really for those, who do not have an iPhone and need access to their Logos books on a Kindle.
Frankly, the iPhone interface is quicker and easier. Period.
The drawbacks include the apparent inability to increase the font size. Accessing your books as indicated above, bring up the selection on of course, a black and white screen. The font appears as what you would expect to see in a contract, fine print. IF there is a simple "increase font size" button, I did not yet locate it.
I would druther have the Kindle able to access the Logos books directly, but in the absence, the iPhone would do, with the requisite improvements. Those include notes, highlights, etc.
It will be interesting to see, just how people feel about the Logos access by way of an iPad.
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To increase font on my Kindle I press 'AA' key located near the 'space' bar. A number of screen formatting options are available.
Rob
PS I just put the Kindle app on my BB 9530. I like.
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It appears that Logos has no plans to make Logos available on the Kindle.
“The Kindle just gives you a definition,” says Pritchett, who sees Amazon as competition and has not made Logos’ material available for the Kindle. “We are stepping way beyond that with a text comparison report, multiple translations and the difference in wording between those translations. It is a study tool, not just a reading tool.”
Jason Saling
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Hi Jason, this blog about "The Network Effect" further explains the value of the Logos approach.
http://blog.logos.com/archives/2010/05/the_network_effect.html
Blessings
PS
I look forward to meeting with you at the upcoming presentation!
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Joe Miller said:
Hi Jason, this blog about "The Network Effect" further explains the value of the Logos approach.
http://blog.logos.com/archives/2010/05/the_network_effect.html
Agreed! Logos on the iPad is amazing when compared to the limited features of the Kindle. I know many make fun of the iPad as simply being a larger iPod Touch, and in some respects that is true, but as an enhanced E-book Reader it is awesome!
Jason Saling
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Rob Suggs said:
It's built for reading, and it's great for that.
That is the point. That is why any book that you intend to read extensively, from cover to cover, will be better on a kindle than the "big screen." Now for Bible study, reference work, searching, etc. there is nothing like Logos on the computer. For reading, the Kindle is a thousand times better.
People are already reading their Logos resources on the Kindle. It is just awkward to do so now. The Kindle is such a popular format that I think Logos will eventually be more accommodating to it.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
I would love to be able to read L4 resources on my Kindle 2. But does anyone seriously think this will ever be a possibility?
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Ralph A. Abernethy III said:
I would love to be able to read L4 resources on my Kindle 2. But does anyone seriously think this will ever be a possibility?
You currently can read many of your L4 resources on the Kindle by going in the browser to library.logos.com.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
How well does that actually work? Would the $189 price be worth it?
I'm guessing no, but if you have a Kindle and think it'd be worth it, I'd love to be persuaded.
I will probably wait for the next model to see what is coming next, but who knows.
joel
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Joel J. said:
How well does that actually work? Would the $189 price be worth it?
I'm guessing no, but if you have a Kindle and think it'd be worth it, I'd love to be persuaded.
I will probably wait for the next model to see what is coming next, but who knows.
Joel-
The Kindle is not a device designed to access the Internet. Therefore, in using it to access Logos books from the library.logos.com is not FAST.
I attempted this, just to see for myself, what it worked like.
Went to the Internet site on my Kindle. Selected a book, by using search and typing in "Concordia", which is one of my commentaries.
It SLOWLY came up. I slowly move through the pages, to get to the reading part. You have to use the little "square mouse" in the Kindle. I moved it to the "right arrow" which you use in Kindle, to advance page. Except here, it takes 4 clicks.
It takes 12 seconds to advance one page. The pages are grouped, so the introductory section is 3 pages. I can use the "next page" button on the Kindle, to advance WITHIN THOSE 3 PAGES, but you must the 4-click mouse, to go to the next section.
Oops! My battery is draining quicker. The book on Kindle says it is about 125kB. Each time I click the mouse button to advance, it runs through the 125kb again and again.
Concordia Commentaries have thorough analysis in the original language. So in this case, the Book of Daniel, there should be Hebrew, but instead, lots of little boxes, due to the inability to display Hebrew fonts.
The hot links do show in the commentary. Clicking on one, it DOES GO to the appropriate place in Daniel. I clicked the BACK button and it did take me back to my originating point, so that DOES work.
The lettering is great, the charts come into Kindle great.
My assessment is that, if you want a means to read lots of books and have lightning fast delivery of books you buy online from Amazon, then Kindle is a good bet; especially at $189.
If you are wanting access to your Logos stuff (and assuming you are wanting to use a method other than your computer for reading), then I would either recommend an iPhone for the same relative amount of money (although the screen is small, the iPhone app from Logos is getting better and better), or else buy an iPad, which gives you even better functionality.
Good luck on your decision!
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Joel J. said:
How well does that actually work?
For the benefit of international customers, it should be noted that this will only work in the US. The internet browser (mark experimental) is not currently available internationally.
This is why I am so eager for Logos to consider introducing an export feature to enable books to be read on the Kindle/other e-readers. In an ideal world, it would be fantastic to be able to import notes and clippings from the aforementioned e-reader. Having said this, I am not greedy, I will settle for just being able to read my books on the Kindle [:)].
Not having this functionality does effect my purchasing habits. I was considering buying the NT Wright triology (recently on prepub) but didn't fancy reading 400+ page book on a computer screen. In the end, I bought the series in paperback (for a slightly higher cost).
I am considering purchasing an iPad over the next few months, but would still like to be able to read my collection via the Kindle. I do not see the iPad replacing my Kindle. As great as the iPad seems, the Kindle is (in my opinion) a more comfortable and 'authentic' (whatever that means) reading experience.
I see the iPad and Kindle serving slightly different purposes and it would be great to have functionality on both.
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Joel J. said:
How well does that actually work? Would the $189 price be worth it?
I'm guessing no, but if you have a Kindle and think it'd be worth it, I'd love to be persuaded.
I will probably wait for the next model to see what is coming next, but who knows.
I wouldn't buy a Kindle in order to view Logos on it. You'll probably be disappointed. But the Kindle is a good reading device due to the e-ink, connectedness, and long battery life. If you already own a Kindle you'll find that the ability to connect to Logos via library.logos.com is a great benefit.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
I'm sorry. I wasn't clear in expressing my wish to read Logos resources on my KIndle. What I meant was that I wish I could load certain L4 resources to my Kindle so I could simply read them. I prefer the e-ink display, as well as the size of the screen, to that of my ITouch or Android.
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But that's probably not going to happen, I would imagine.
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I agree. As a musician, I always understood that you could "format shift" from CD to MP3, as long as you didn't use both at the same time. In other words, you couldn't buy a CD, make MP3s, then sell the CD. That is obviously copyright infringement. But if it's for yourself, and you don't use both at the same time, I have always understood that to be fine.
Likewise, for personal use, I doubt that publishers care if you see it on your screen, print it out on paper, or print it on e-ink. As long as you buy the product and don't resell or distribute it, I think most publishers would see the common sense of that. Some people simply can't read well on the computer and need an easier-to-read format.
In fact, I have not purchased some Logos books because it is too hard on my eyes to read. Publishers probably know that if they encouraged printing to Kindle, for example, they'd have more business. I just can't read some of this stuff on a computer screen.
I don't even own a Kindle right now, but I'm speaking theoretically.
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Michael Childs said:
Hello Michael,
I own both a Kindle and an iPad. I agree with you 100%. The iPad is much better for Bible study, but the Kindle is "a thousand times better" when I just want to read a book.
Bill
Rob Suggs said:It's built for reading, and it's great for that.
That is the point. That is why any book that you intend to read extensively, from cover to cover, will be better on a kindle than the "big screen." Now for Bible study, reference work, searching, etc. there is nothing like Logos on the computer. For reading, the Kindle is a thousand times better.
People are already reading their Logos resources on the Kindle. It is just awkward to do so now. The Kindle is such a popular format that I think Logos will eventually be more accommodating to it.
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Some people export a section of a Logos book as a pdf, (maybe convert the pdf to a mobi file) and then read it on the Kindle. It works very well.Ralph A. Abernethy III said:I'm sorry. I wasn't clear in expressing my wish to read Logos resources on my KIndle. What I meant was that I wish I could load certain L4 resources to my Kindle so I could simply read them. I prefer the e-ink display, as well as the size of the screen, to that of my ITouch or Android.
It does seem to me as long as you don't share it, and delete it when you have read it, that this is fair use. Others disagree. You have to decide for yourself if this is ethical.
However, people are reading their Logos library on the Kindle.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Michael Childs said:
It does seem to me as long as you don't share it, and delete it when you have read it, that this is fair use. Others disagree. You have to decide for yourself if this is ethical.
With the direction Logos is going with the printing feature and wide-ranged availability, I think this is true.With the beta version's print feature it is super easy to save a large chunk of text as a PDF. Logos has said you can use the resources on as many computers and platforms as you would like so long as you are not sharing. My guess is that they want you to get the most of the program and the investment with them you have made. If exporting to PDF with integrity allows that to happen, I personally don't see a problem.
Of course, I'm not one of the publishers or authors :-)
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This kind of use clearly falls under the principles set forth in the Fair Use Provision of the 1976 Copyright Act, despite the fact that 34 years ago, the kinds of devices we are using were not directly addressed. It's not even an ethical question at this point. It's simply allowed. This includes not just the creating of PDFs for your own use, but also using material that you have in Bible software in education settings such as using a data projector to share images with a group. Content can even be copied onto handouts for educational purposes; however, if a publisher has not granted permission for this kind of distribution, all handouts have to be gathered back up when the class session is over.
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R. Mansfield said:
This kind of use clearly falls under the principles set forth in the Fair Use Provision of the 1976 Copyright Act, despite the fact that 34 years ago, the kinds of devices we are using were not directly addressed.
Thanks for the info!
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Philip Spitzer said:
With the beta version's print feature it is super easy to save a large chunk of text as a PDF.
I'm using beta, but I'm not quite sure how this works (That is, saving text into PDF).
Elder/Pastor, Hope Now Bible Church, Fresno CA
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Roger Feenstra said:
I'm using beta, but I'm not quite sure how this works (That is, saving text into PDF).
Use Print/Export and a PDF printer driver (you will likely have to download one).
Prov. 15:23
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You can also copy and paste a limited amount of text into Word. It is then easy to convert the text into a Kindle book. I will sometimes do this so I can listen to a book that I purchased from Logos while driving. The Kindle does a good job of converting text to speech. Being able to listen to my Logos books on my Kindle gives those books greater value than the same book in print. As a result, I buy more books from Logos than I would otherwise.
As I understand the Logos license, it goes with the user and not the machine. The Logos website summaries it as follows: "The short version is this: "The license goes with the user. Every user must purchase their own package. If you have a work machine and a laptop and they are both yours for your personal use, you may load it on both for your personal use - because the license goes with the user." Can you purchase one package and have two people use it? No. The license goes with the user. The license is a single user license."
http://www.logos.com/ArticleViewer/2090This enlightened approach to the software license is one reason why I spend so much money on Logos products.
In an interesting development, the Library of Congress recently relaxed the rules on "text to speech" and copyrights.
http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/media/how-library-of-congresss-digital-copyright-exemptions-affect-e/19569018/Bill
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Does anyone know how the new Kindle 3G "webkit" browser will be? Any chance that it could be faster than the previous browser?
Joel
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Just to clarify, I am curious about the speed of the new Kindle 3G browser? Apparently, it's a webkit browser (which is used by Safari), and with the faster refresh rates, I wonder if it'd be possible to access library.logos.com at a reasonable speed.
12 seconds does seem too slow for most situations, but 2 or 3 seconds might be doable.
If anyone gets to try one, please let us curious folks know about the speed of the new browser.
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Joel,
I found the following review of the Kindle 3 browser: "Its web browser, now based on WebKit (like modern smartphone browsers) is much improved, but due to the limitations of the hardware (most importantly the greyscale e-ink display) it's easily bested by any modern smartphone. The browser is listed as "experimental," and aptly so." http://www.fastcompany.com/1684575/wanted-amazon-kindle-3rd-generation
Bill
Joel J. said:Lust to clarify, I am curious about the speed of the new Kindle 3G browser? Apparently, it's a webkit browser (which is used by Safari), and with the faster refresh rates, I wonder if it'd be possible to access library.logos.com at a reasonable speed.
12 seconds does seem too slow for most situations, but 2 or 3 seconds might be doable.
If anyone gets to try one, please let us curious folks know about the speed of the new browser.
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I just received my Kindle 3 and tried library.logos.com. It works fairly well. This is my first Kindle so I have no basis of comparison to previous Kindles. A couple videos I watched while waiting for the K3 to arrive show remarkable speed improvements in this version verses the K2.
A few things to note
- The font is a little small when reading a text. It's still readable, but if you are reading on a Kindle for low vision problems you will continue to have problems on library.logos.com. If you change the font size, only the images at the top/bottom of the website change. The text itself stays the same size.
- The article mode allows you to change text size. However, doing this removes the navigation arrows on the website. You would have to change to article mode, increase text size, read all of that page, go back to web mode, navigate to the arrow, click it, wait for page to load, go back to article mode, increase text size.....
- Navigation is not that difficult. I read a few pages and when you get to the bottom, you have to navigate to the arrow to click to the next page. When you get to the bottom of the second page, the Kindle remembers the location of the last click so it is usually fairly close to the arrow again. Often, it appeared on the arrow, but certainly not every time.
- Speed: I was using the wifi so I cannot comment as to 3G speeds. The wifi was quite responsive. By making the website limited on graphics, Logos has really helped for the page to load quickly. It was as fast as or perhaps faster loading on the Kindle than on my HTC Incredible.
Overall, the website is usable. The ideal would be for the website to load the entire book or at least chapter then you could read like any other Kindle book. That would take longer to load, but it would be faster than navigating to the next page. If you had to stop reading at a point, you would have to locate where you were in your reading. The small font might be a problem for some, but it did not bother me that much. I think I will use it on occasion but I will more likely learn to export specific books I want to read to PDF.
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