Logos Is Too Expensive
Comments
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Joel Reed said:
I'm sorry to say that something is simply not right with this world. I understand the fact that you have to make a profit in order to keep your feet on the ground, but charging over $600 for a beginners package seems a bit out of line.
Peace to you, Joel! and ... Always Joy in the Lord!
I have some real problems with your posts, this one .-- which is your first post on the Logos Forums -- .. and the next one ..... Perhaps I am a Logos Fan Boy since I've been using Logos Bible Software since around 1993; however, to me Logos is a great deal as I use it daily.
I did read your first .pdf The Book of Life, enjoyed quite a number of items in the book and appreciate that you shared it with the Logos Forums. I will be pondering the contents for a while, then perhaps coming back with a review. It was a pleasant 'read' -- I have to ponder neuthetic counselling, and come to various conclusions about that
My wife and I bought our Pastor the first Logos package a couple of years ago, then helped him (several times!) upgrade extensively into a much more powerful Logos with lots of bells and whistles. It will take years yet until he can complete what he wants and needs...... But, it's in the works ..... *smile*
He can always expand according to his needs ........
However, just looked again at the Logos First Level -- Home -- and it seems to me to be quite reasonable indeed! I think Logos puts together a good first library.
I'm sorry you are so unhappy, and I wish you well. But, ultimately, I can't see how that possibly can be Logos Bible Software's Fault and see no reason for you to attack them, particulalry in your first two posts -- right out of the clear blue sky! Wow! El Zappo! Lightning down on Logos!
Why are you now so very angry with Logos? Get over it and come back to the Forums and share in our give and take. You'll find this a pretty "cool" place, most of the time! We really do try to help and support one another; and it would be great if you were part of that.
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Thanks for the kind wordsMilford Charles Murray said:Peace to you, Joel! and ... Always Joy in the Lord!
I have some real problems with your posts, this one .-- which is your first post on the Logos Forums -- .. and the next one .....
Perhaps I am a Logos Fan Boy since I've been using Logos Bible Software since around 1993; however, to me Logos is a great deal as I use it daily.
I did read your first .pdf The Book of Life, enjoyed quite a number of items in the book and appreciate that you shared it with the Logos Forums. I will be pondering the contents for a while, then perhaps coming back with a review. It was a pleasant 'read' -- I have to ponder neuthetic counselling, and come to various conclusions about that
My wife and I bought our Pastor the first Logos package a couple of years ago, then helped him (several times!) upgrade extensively into a much more powerful Logos with lots of bells and whistles. It will take years yet until he can complete what he wants and needs...... But, it's in the works ..... *smile*
He can always expand according to his needs ........
However, just looked again at the Logos First Level -- Home -- and it seems to me to be quite reasonable indeed!
I think Logos puts together a good first library.
I'm sorry you are so unhappy, and I wish you well. But, ultimately, I can't see how that possibly can be Logos Bible Software's Fault and see no reason for you to attack them, particulalry in your first two posts -- right out of the clear blue sky! Wow!
El Zappo! Lightning down on Logos!
Why are you now so very angry with Logos? Get over it and come back to the Forums and share in our give and take. You'll find this a pretty "cool" place, most of the time! We really do try to help and support one another; and it would be great if you were part of that.
regarding my books
Milford Charles Murray.
I will try my best to explain why I appear to be so 'mad' at Logos.
Perhaps I can illustrate my original point by using Quick Verse/Word Search as an example.
Keep in mind that I do not own Quick Verse, so this is strictly a research based point that I am trying to make.
I don't think there's any question that Quick Verse is Logos' biggest competitor, since it is an equally impressive piece of software.
That being said I believe you get much more value for your money using Quick Verse rather than Logos.
Here's an example to explain what I mean:
Logos offers 79 items as a part of their basic package for $149.99 with the option to upgrade to the next few levels for hundreds of dollars each.
In comparison, Quick Verse offers over 200 items as a part of their basic package for a cost of $129.95 with the option to upgrade to their Gold edition for a mere $79.95. (Which appears to be on par with Logos' Scholars edition) I can't see why there is such a large price difference between the two software packages when they are offering virtually the same resources for each of their 'Deluxe' Packages.
* Edit - I should also add the point that Quick Verse offers a TON of materials on their website for free, such as all of the non-copywritten books I have mentioned as free downloads.
As far as I could see, Logos doesn't offer any books on their site for free.
(Systematic Theology is free on Quick Verse but costs $43.95 on Logos, The Complete Works of Josephus is free on Quickverse but costs $19.95 on Logos, Foxe's Book of Martyrs is available for Free on Quick Verse, but is not even available on the Logos website by itself because you have to purchase it as a set. These are only a few examples ... I could go on and on about the overpriced products on Logos' website, but I'll save you the chatter.
Perhaps some of you know something that I don't know ... but as far as I can see Logos is a massive rip off.0 -
Joseph Turner said:
Fred, I noticed in the introductions thread that came back up recently that you are from Warrior, AL. I am right here in Kimberly and I teach at the high school. It is truly a small world.
It is a small world. My church is Westside right at exit 281. Feel free to contact me off the forums through the website.
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Joel said:
Here's an example to explain what I mean:
Logos offers 79 items as a part of their basic package for $149.99 with the option to upgrade to the next few levels for hundreds of dollars each.
In comparison, Quick Verse offers over 200 items as a part of their basic package for a cost of $129.95 with the option to upgrade to their Gold edition for a mere $79.95. (Which appears to be on par with Logos' Scholars edition) I can't see why there is such a large price difference between the two software packages when they are offering virtually the same resources for each of their 'Deluxe' Packages.
* Edit - I should also add the point that Quick Verse offers a TON of materials on their website for free, such as all of the non-copywritten books I have mentioned as free downloads. (Systematic Theology is free on Quick Verse but costs $43.95 on Logos, The Complete Works of Josephus is free on Quickverse but costs $19.95 on Logos, Foxe's Book of Martyrs is available for Free on Quick Verse, but is not even available on the Logos website by itself because you have to purchase it as a set. These are only a few examples ... I could go on and on about the overpriced products on Logos' website. As far as I could see, Logos doesn't offer any books on their site for free.
Perhaps some of you know something that I don't know ... but as far as I can see Logos is a massive rip off.I noticed on the front page the NIV Application commentary set for Quickverse is considerably more expensive than it is in Logos, but I also noticed that the New American Commentary set is less expensive in Quickverse, but the books that you get in the Quickverse base packages are mostly books that you could get elsewhere free, and Quickverse doesn't offer anywhere near as many newer scholarly commentaries and books as Logos does, which means that it is not going to be nearly as expandable in the long run. I also know that previous versions of QV are not as powerful as Logos. I also don't think that QV has the original language tools that Logos has. It is a highly inferior product.
You can't really make any judgments until you try Logos. You can try any package for 30 days, so you have nothing to lose. You then have every right to say what you want if you don't like it or think it's worth it.
By the way, Logos does offer free books via Vyrso and monthly free specials.
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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I think there are a lot of great products offered in the Logos package, but to say there aren't any deep scholarly commentaries and books included with Quick Verse is simply not true. In my opinion Quick Verse has a lot of solid resources to offer. Naturally if you are specifically seeking the kind of resources that Logos offers, then I'm sure you will be satisfied with your purchase. But you can't deny the fact that Logos charges a lot more for most of their products. Go through some of the items and I'm sure many of you will be surprised.Joseph Turner said:I noticed on the front page the NIV Application commentary set for Quickverse is considerably more expensive than it is in Logos, but I also noticed that the New American Commentary set is less expensive in Quickverse, but the books that you get in the Quickverse base packages are mostly books that you could get elsewhere free, and Quickverse doesn't offer anywhere near as many newer scholarly commentaries and books as Logos does, which means that it is not going to be nearly as expandable in the long run. I also know that previous versions of QV are not as powerful as Logos. I also don't think that QV has the original language tools that Logos has. It is a highly inferior product.
You can't really make any judgments until you try Logos. You can try any package for 30 days, so you have nothing to lose. You then have every right to say what you want if you don't like it or think it's worth it.
[quote]
By the way, Logos does offer free books via Vyrso and monthly free specials.
I stand corrected.0 -
I stand corrected.Joel said:
I think there are a lot of great products offered in the Logos package, but to say there aren't any deep scholarly commentaries and books included with Quick Verse is simply not true. In my opinion Quick Verse has a lot of solid resources to offer. Naturally if you are specifically seeking the kind of resources that Logos offers, then I'm sure you will be satisfied with your purchase. But you can't deny the fact that Logos charges a lot more for most of their products. Go through some of the items and I'm sure many of you will be surprised.Joseph Turner said:I noticed on the front page the NIV Application commentary set for Quickverse is considerably more expensive than it is in Logos, but I also noticed that the New American Commentary set is less expensive in Quickverse, but the books that you get in the Quickverse base packages are mostly books that you could get elsewhere free, and Quickverse doesn't offer anywhere near as many newer scholarly commentaries and books as Logos does, which means that it is not going to be nearly as expandable in the long run. I also know that previous versions of QV are not as powerful as Logos. I also don't think that QV has the original language tools that Logos has. It is a highly inferior product.
You can't really make any judgments until you try Logos. You can try any package for 30 days, so you have nothing to lose. You then have every right to say what you want if you don't like it or think it's worth it.
[quote]
By the way, Logos does offer free books via Vyrso and monthly free specials.
Now I didn't say that Quickverse didn't have any scholarly commentaries did I? They seem to have NIV Application Commentary and New American Commentary, which I like. Logos has those, plus Word Biblical Commentary, Hermeneia, Anchor Bible, New International Comentary on the Old/New Testaments, etc... I as deffinitely correct instating that Quickverse has nowhere near the amount.
I also forgot that you can download the Logos Perseus collections that will add thousands of ancient works without charge.
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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Joel said:
As far as I could see, Logos doesn't offer any books on their site for free.
Logos has a number of items for $ 0.00 => http://www.logos.com/products/search?start=0&sort=pricelo&pageSize=30 with the Perseus collections totaling 1,743 resources.
http://vyrso.com has monthly specials that include a number of eBooks for $ 0.00 (readable and searchable in Logos 4).
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Really these are two different products market segmented to varying groups of software users. Comparing these two products really does seem like mixing Apples and Oranges and hoping no one will notice. It strikes me that Logos has a two edged sword of providing the most product for your buck at the same time, with it's monopoly in the market place, also charging the highest price possible to those using it. For the high end its quite a bang for the $20,000 buck if you want a portable library that a small seminary would be proud of while also delivering entry level products Lifeway Resources easily beat for the money. After Logos saturates a rather limited market with several thousand more antiquated works I wonder what will be next to turn a profit...maybe buy Lifeway and then sell the whole company to Barnes & Noble for market consolidation. Imagine the possibilities of thousands more public domain books to add to your Family Friend Research and Education Station.
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Joel Reed said:
I don't mean to be rude, but my family runs on a single income, and my wife stays at home to school our little boy. That being said it is incredibly hard to find the extra resources to purchase a decent Bible Software program to grow in our faith.
Understand single income plus unemployment. Thankful for Logos payment plan option. Logos does not charge interest on the outstanding balance, but does pass along a monthly fee for processing payments. If payment plan balance is paid off early, the monthly processing fee is avoided.
One idea is talking with Logos sales => http://www.logos.com/about/contact
If Logos resources and library integration are not valuable to you, then using freely available open source is a viable alternative.
Joel Reed said:I think one of my biggest beefs with Logos is the fact that they are taking up such a large share of the Christian Software market when it could instead be filled with something much better, like an Open Source Bible Program.
Open source programs are available (e.g. TheWord), which have several thousand resources, which is significantly less than resources available for use in Logos. Caveat: trying manage/organize lots of resources in TheWord can be a bit challenging. Logos 4 has better library management for thousands of resources.
Logos Bible Software has more usable features than open source alternatives; albeit a number of Logos features need appropriate resources, which can cost. A number of Logos Bible Software users interact with their library for many hours every day.
Note: Logos 4 Mac uses the mono open source project so Logos 4 code base can be shared on PC and Mac.
By the way, several large companies have funded substantial open source development to provide competitive alternatives.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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From somebody who did own 3 versions of QV before buying Logos 8 years ago. Logos is a MUCH more powerful program. QV was a Bible Software program but Logos is a Digital Library and the Greek and Hebrew tools are FAR superior. These two programs are not even comparable! If you bought QV AND BibleWorks then you might have a basis for comparing what is included in Logos.
I like to think of it as varying quality of tools. I do minor household repairs so I buy my wrenches at a discount store and the quality is fine for my purpose. If I made my living with my wrenches I would expect to buy a higher quality tool from one of those trucks that markets to mechanics (Snap-on or Matco). I don't fault those who sell or buy higher quality wrenches--they just are not a wise stewardship for my abilities. However, my abilities to wrestle with theology and original languages are such that I demand better tools and the value that I derive from using logos is a good stewardship of my time and finances.
Instead of giving too much credence to somebody who has admittingly never owned EITHER Logos or QV - it may be more prudent to consider the opinions of those who own one or both.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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I had quick verse also for years also and can tell you that there is no comparison. You can purchase the scholars package for about $300 more and get a tool with features that no other bible program offers in one package.
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I also still have two copies of QV and neither one of them are loaded. The newer versions became less user friendly and much more expensive, without any added value.
In Him,
Jim
Running on ASUS Windows 10 I7 24 gig of ram, 1 Terabyte drive.
Philippians 2:3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.
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Joel Reed said:
I can't help but feel like much of the discussion here has been wasted, because most of the users on this forum have been long time buyers of Logos software and will obviously defend their decision to buy the program. I don't mean to be rude, but my family runs on a single income, and my wife stays at home to school our little boy
Joel, I don't think it's that. My wife and I are on a single income as well, though we don't have children (unfortunately). The simple fact is that for quite a few of us (including myself), the pricing of Logos resources, and the convenience of the massive information architecture in which they arrive, is overwhelmingly cheaper and more useful than the truly ridiculous prices we used to pay for academic works in print.
Joel Reed said:I think one of my biggest beefs with Logos is the fact that they are taking up such a large share of the Christian Software market when it could instead be filled with something much better, like an Open Source Bible Program.
No one is going to publish academic works from Brill, Continuum, and Sheffield, in an open source Bible program. The licensing fees for these academic titles would destroy them.
Joel Reed said:Perhaps my point is getting a bit off topic, but I always thought Christians were supposed to gather together to make our community of believers stronger by working together towards a goal.
I see Logos doing that admirably.
Joel Reed said:Unfortunately all I see is a secular company monopolizing on the Christian buyers market.
Logos is popular because it's incredibly more affordable than most of the alternatives people have. However, Logos has no power to enforce its market presence; it doesn't have a monopoly, it just has a very well earned dominant market share.
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
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In the early nineties, when I was single and had money, I purchased and evaluated all of the Bible software programs for the PC. It was apparent even back then that Logos was winning the race to create the best Bible software and with the most resources. Furthermore, the Pritchetts put theIr reputation on the line by identifying with their product. How many of the Pritchetts can you name? Tell me one other product you are aware of that you can name as many of the owners. That tells me they have been listening to their customers.
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Milford Charles Murray said:
My wife and I bought our Pastor the first Logos package a couple of years ago, then helped him (several times!) upgrade extensively into a much more powerful Logos with lots of bells and whistles. It will take years yet until he can complete what he wants and needs...... But, it's in the works ..... *smile*
An often forgotten point as it seems everyone wants to start with one of the big packages, it's taken me 16 years to build a Logos collection of 6,680 resources I started with Level 2 in 1996 and progressed via Pastor's, Silver and Gold to Platinum always adding other items as I went. There have been a few big ticket items along the way but most of my transactions were less than £30 and my average spend has been £12 per week.
The same principle applies to my collection of guitars, amps and music related equipment that has taken me years to acquire people see it and want it all now but it would simply cost too much as a one off purchase... I'd be broke and single if I spent that much money in one go...
I know that if I was new to Logos today I could not afford to start at where I am today, I just don't have the cash but, based on my experience, I'd start the journey so that I can eventually have the library I aspire to.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Graham Owen said:
An often forgotten point as it seems everyone wants to start with one of the big packages,
I completely agree with this, I started with scholar's and added and upgraded since then giving me a nice bible study package.
Personally I think whether an item is too expensive or not is a subjective thing. Joel feels it's to expensive for him. That's fine. I do not. I enjoy what I have and love it for diving into the scriptures.
In Him,
Jim
Running on ASUS Windows 10 I7 24 gig of ram, 1 Terabyte drive.
Philippians 2:3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.
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James Chandler said:
Personally I think whether an item is too expensive or not is a subjective thing. Joel feels it's to expensive for him. That's fine.
I agree that this is a very personal issue it just seems to me that the expectations of some new users are simply unrealistic. I looked at some of the alternatives, at a point in time when Logos 4 was frustrating me like crazy, and concluded that to rebuild what I need out of what I have (if that makes sense) would require a similar investment with the only real difference being what I call the filler material. I also concluded that Open Source was not an option for the range of materials I want/need.
I would personally be more inclined to agree if Joel had said that the Logos entry point for serious/prospective scholars is too high! Personally, my development has mapped quite well to the Logos structure and the 'lighter' materials suited me at the beginning. I think that there could be room for a Scholars Essentials with some core Language Tools, a good set of commentaries and very little 'fluff' at the low end but that is a slightly different debate.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Graham Owen said:
An often forgotten point as it seems everyone wants to start with one of the big packages, it's taken me 16 years to build a Logos collection of 6,680 resources
This is the same error young adults are tormented with. A young man leaves home, gets a job and marries his bride. He then tries to acquire in 6 months everything he sees in his Father's and Father-in-Law's estates. He never pauses to consider they have been building their wealth for thirty years or more.
Graham Owen said:The same principle applies to my collection of guitars, amps and music related equipment that has taken me years to acquire people see it and want it all now but it would simply cost too much as a one off purchase... I'd be broke and single if I spent that much money in one go...
This is true. The key is to convince yourself (and your wife) that the parables of the Pearl of Great Price or the Hidden Treasure is a good approach to de-cluttering your life and focusing on Bible study. I sold off 26 of my guitars and put the money into Logos resources. I have 4 guitars left and find they suffice. I also sold my classic cars, my home studio, and other "obsessions." Employing this principle of "selling all that I had" to purchase Logos resources made it possible to build an immense library in 4 years instead of 16.
My wife is quite different. She started with the Bible Study Library. I upgraded her to Scholar's and she wanted to downgrade back to her original package.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super Tramp said:
I sold off 26 of my guitars and put the money into Logos resources.
I am in awe!!! Now to go completely off topic...
How did you decide what to keep?
As my collection grew I did a little pruning and decided I wanted versatility and needed to avoid duplicate sounds, I ended up at 6:
My work horse is a Takamine EN10c, well worn and over used but I love it.
My favourite is a Yamaha AEX1500 designed in conjunction with Martin Taylor, warm Jazz plus a Piezo.
For Nylon its a Yamaha APX10NA, great for handling the solos in a musically conservative Church setting.
Proper rock is a Yamaha MSG Deluxe, twin humbuckers, coil taps, whammy bar, heavy like a Les Paul, shaped like a mini 335. Probably my most versatile guitar, I can almost get a Tele sound out of it at least one that would fool a non guitarist!
When I'm not quite sure what I need its a Yamaha SA800, I love semis, this is the last of my Yamaha's when I was 18 I said I would never own a Yamaha guitar because they were too clinical and sterile, wisdom came with age plus I think they got some better designers.
Finally the single coil stuff is covered by a Fender Squire Tele from 82, classic butterscotch and part of the second batch built in Japan for Fender using genuine US hardware. Its awesome, did not cost a lot and is the only guitar I have that is worth a lot more than I paid for it. Had to rewire it as it had the capacitor fitted for really woolly sounds. Main reason for having a Tele is that I have never found a Strat that could tempt my credit card out of my wallet. I came close 3 times but so far have resisted. Never say never though.
The acid test has always been can Barbara, my wife, hear the difference when I switch guitar. She is very musical, a great singer and objective. This collection pasts the test...
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Super Tramp said:
I sold off 26 of my guitars and put the money into Logos resources.
Now THAT is commitment!
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Graham Owen said:
How did you decide what to keep?
Most were easy to let go of. My autographed guitars (QUEEN, Genesis, Supertramp) brought lots of $ for Logos and I never played them anyway. Other guitars were sold to famous people who play them better than I only regret selling the Gibson ES135, a Morris jazz hollow-body and a Morris neck-thru solid body. My "keepers" are:
- Morris 12-string
- Morris 6-string cutaway finger-picking Martin strings
- Fender Squire Bullet w/custom neck & Burns Tri-Sonic pups
- Morris Les Paul custom boutique over-wound pups potted in beeswax, switches in/out of phase, treble boosted
I have also parted with tools, cars, home studio equip and lots of books. I have been very happy with the Logos resources I got in the "trades." [:D]If a fellow has nothing to sell off he can eat ramen noodles for a year and swing some of the food budget to Logos. There are no fat kids in my house.[6]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Thanks for all the great replies people ... regardless of how I might still feel I actually learned quite a lot by some of your responses.
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Joel said:
Thanks for all the great replies people ... regardless of how I might still feel I actually learned quite a lot by some of your responses.
Peace to you, Joel! God Bless you and your Loved ones richly! Thank you for coming back to this thread to bid all a friendly and truly gentle and humble (in a Christian sense!) Fare Well! *smile*
Much appreciated!
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Amen!
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Just my two cents.
Yes some packages are not really useful. Why don't just download the Logos4 base package and then order whatever you think is useful?
Business is business they need to pay the employees, benefits, tax...etc
I spent couple years to build up my library and almost spent $20000.00
If you cannot afford Logos why don't try Bibleworks, e-sword...etc
E-Sword is pretty good and they have a lot of resources if you go to this webpage:
For example you need to pay around couple hundred dollars on Lange commentary in Logos but e-sword is free for you and also a lot of useful exegetical commentaries.
just my 2-cent
Kelvin
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Kelvin Chiu said:
I spent couple years to build up my library and almost spent $20000.00
Took me more than a couple of years to reach $20k
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Kelvin Chiu said:
E-Sword is pretty good and they have a lot of resources if you go to this webpage:
I think I will go over to that website and post the Logos Free Book of the Month. And then I will post a ditty about the FREE Perseus library. Andd maybe something about free Vyrso books.....
Then I will let all the users know my per book cost for 10,000+ Logos books was less than $4. That included NICOT/NICNT, Lange's and Zondervan's.
I just don't get why users can't afford $4 a book and why WS, QV, and BW can't match it.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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What a great tread! [:)]
Chelsea FC- Today is a good day!
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george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Nah. It's actually an intriguing (and great) tread. It's like a British or American political debate. Good points are made on both sides and it keeps going and going and........
Chelsea FC- Today is a good day!
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