Logos Is Too Expensive

George Somsel said:

 The Message is a relatively decent, if somewhat offbeat, translation which therefore isn't for everyone.  Users have a right to say "I prefer this translation" or "I prefer that translation", but, when they aren't qualified to judge the quality of the work, they shouldn't attempt to judge its correctness or lack thereof. 

So people should only express an opinion if they know what they are talking about? That's a novel concept [:D][:D][:D]

Jack Caviness said:

George Somsel said:

I get tired of people who claim that the KJV is the only bible

It Isn't? Can't I use it to correct errors in the Greek & Hebrew? (Actually had a visitor from a local church tell me that one)

After reading what some of them post, I almost believe they feel that way.  [:(]

DMB said:

Oh great. There's an error in the second edition of the  'Heretics of the Early Church'. I wish Logos wouldn't release these without better care.

Did not the Lord of the harvest instruct the laborers not to try and glean out the tares until harvest lest some of the wheat be lost? Maybe some books we call "tares" right now are really "good seed" that we do not recognize yet!  Let the Spirit and the Word censor for us.

DMB said:

OK, Matthew. You haven't lost your touch.

I had to go and check Logos.com to see if indeed they had such a resource ('Heresies of the Early Church' ). So I fell for my own joke.

Serves you right.  I only knew I didn't have it and didn't check.

As I said before generally Logos is no more expensive on modern works than other software companies. I accept that one may say many of the public domain items are over priced since production costs are covered in community pricing. But no one is forcing anyone to buy anything.. Most of us seem very happy with Logos. It is not the cheapest, but it without a doubt has the widest array of books out there. It may seem a little bulky and buggy. But it is a fine piece of software, and I am glad I own it.

-Dan

I agree.  This prices are ridiculous.  I just tried to purchase Believers Bible Commentary to add to my package.  Logos wants 40 bucks for it.  I can get the hard copy for 22.00 or the Kindle version for 21.00.   While I would love to have this resource on the Logos platform, how do you justify charging almost double the price of any other format?   

Also the huge differance in price from the Leaders package to the Scholars was prohibitive for me.  I understand the need to turn a profit, but Logos really goes over the top with it.

Sogol said:

David thompson said:

I just tried to purchase Believers Bible Commentary to add to my package.  Logos wants 40 bucks for it.  I can get the hard copy for 22.00 or the Kindle version for 21.00.

I believe that is included in the Jeremiah Lifeworks Library (version 1, not version 2). Logos charges about $50 for it, but there may be older copies floating around.

I purchased the Jeremiah Lifeworks Library last week for $49.99 and it does include the Believer's Bible Commentary. Most often, a much better deal can be experienced through buying bundles or libraries. What I have been doing is to 1st see if the book that I am interested in is included in some bundle, then I look at the bundle and determine the number of other books that I am likely to purchase and either purchase the bundle right away or save it in a wish list for later purchase. In the case of the Jeremiah bundle, I was looking for Vine's Dictionary ($17), but found a number of other books included that I was interested in, so I waited a week or so rather than buy the Vine's Dictionary. Often times, it is not necessary to have a book immediately. :-)

Sogol said:

It looks like I got my Believer's Bible Commentary through the eBible Expanded Edition. I believe it is also included in the Thomas Nelson Bible Study Library, but I'm not 100% sure.

Yes, I just checked. It's included in 2 Logos Nelson Bundles (Nelson Bible Reference Bundle and Nelson 501 Book Unlock). I have the Bible Reference Bundle in my wish list primarily for WBC. I guess when I finally get the reference bundle, I'll have a few duplicates. I don't see the 2 packages that you listed on the Logos site.

Sean Myers said:

I have less money into QV with 780 books than I have in Logos at 369 books.  yes, I have some of the best commentaries sets available in my QV collection - I compare every purchase between both options - people must be blind if they think Logos is on par for price.  

I've got news for you.  If you think the Pulpit Commentaries and Biblical Illustrator are "some of the best commentaries available", you don't know much about commentaries.  That's OK since one's books should meet his personal needs, but they aren't the best—by a long shot.  We've heard complaints about the price of Logos' resources continually from someone.  The only answer that can be given is "If something else suits your needs better, go for it." 

BTW:  Yes, you can put Logos on all 500 of your computers which you or your wife use (if you should happen to have as many as Bartholomew Cubbins had hats). 

They do have a payment plan. Very simple. $5 interest per month. I pay about $100 a month and have been doing so since I got Logos. I keep buying new sets and will likely be paying logos $100 a month for the rest of my life. this doesn't count individual books I purchase from Vyrso. 

I just don't see the issue with Logos pricing. I just saved a huge amount of money buying 2 volumes for $300 from Logos. Now granted they were somewhat more than the $125 Asherah volume, but probably the more expensive volumes took minutes longer to tag, etc.

Now in all fairness, the outside price for the 2 volumes was far higher and untagged.  Cogitating on this, and noticing Logos seems to be having trouble lasso'ing publishers at good prices these days, I suspect the high priced public domain volumes are 'bridge' revenue streams, as Logos tries to convert to a subscription revenue base (similar to JBL etc).

Nice Skirt !

George Somsel said:

If you think the Pulpit Commentaries and Biblical Illustrator are "some of the best commentaries available", you don't know much about commentaries.  That's OK since one's books should meet his personal needs, but they aren't the best—by a long shot.  We've heard complaints about the price of Logos' resources continually from someone.  The only answer that can be given is "If something else suits your needs better, go for it." 

Mostly, I agree with George.  About commentaries and especially about, "If something else suits your needs better, go for it."

We all want everything as cheaply as possible.  Overall, I believe Logos is by far the best value for me.  But I do buy many books in Kindle or other format because they are cheaper than Logos.  (Sometimes, like C. S. Lewis' works, the books aren't available in Logos.)   It depends on the type of book and how I will use it.  Commentaries and reference works are usually worth paying the premium to have them intergrated with Logos to me.  Many other books are not worth the difference in price to me.  So if something else suits your needs, go for it. 

But there is no need to slander Logos, a great company with great products and great value.

John Harrigan said:

I do agree with previous posts about public domain stuff. I think Logos should discount these works far more, especially since there usually isn't that much tagging involved.

If the book is public domain, and there is not much tagging involved, why not just make the Logos version yourself as a personal book?  Then it costs nothing.  Everybody is happy.

John Harrigan said:

Michael Childs said:

If the book is public domain, and there is not much tagging involved, why not just make the Logos version yourself as a personal book?  Then it costs nothing.  Everybody is happy.

Because they usually come in pdf, which is difficult to convert.

http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/convert-pdf-converter.html

John Harrigan said:

George Somsel said:

http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/convert-pdf-converter.html

most public domains are scanned not created from from docs, so even adobe conversion is mediocre at best.

Perhaps.  I once had PDF files for Hermann Gunkel's Schöpfung und Chaos which I was considering translating, but I soon found that the OCR software couldn't handle the fraktur type which had been used for the book so that major text-critical work would have been necessary to first get a readable German text before translating it into English.  I was glad to hear of another translation of the work.

This thread has become rather long, but I'd like to say two things.

Firstly, I'd like to say that although I think Logos is expensive it's also probably a fair price. One may have to dig deep but you simply can't get a product as good as Logos anywhere else! Perhaps Logos could review their prices and see how they could make it a bit more affordable. The payment plans are a good way forward, but I would like to see the administration charge scrapped. Gift tokens would be good and last year's Christmas Credit was a brilliant idea.

Secondly, there seems in some quarters a little bit of snobbery when it comes to the lower priced packages. Yes, I am biblically trained and a serving pastor, but the Leaders Package has served me exceptionally well over the years and I have naturally added to my resources, but telling me that as a leader and academic I shouldn't have any thing less than Scholars is not only insulting but ridiculous. Naturally, one would like to have the biggest package there is, but ultimately one simply has to go with what one can afford. 

tom said:

Stephen Thorp said:

Secondly, there seems in some quarters a little bit of snobbery when it comes to the lower priced packages. Yes, I am biblically trained and a serving pastor, but the Leaders Package has served me exceptionally well over the years and I have naturally added to my resources

I have the OL, and it works great.

I will also say that some people (like myself) do not want the "higher packages" because of theological positions that the "higher packages" contains.

Well that's interesting.  I don't know the packages enough to discern this.  Care to expand upon that thought?  

John Harrigan said:

Michael Childs said:

If the book is public domain, and there is not much tagging involved, why not just make the Logos version yourself as a personal book?  Then it costs nothing.  Everybody is happy.

Because they usually come in pdf, which is difficult to convert.

John, I understand the difficulties of converting pdf, but I have personally found that it can be done with a little effort.  I have done it often. The problem for me has not been converting the document text itself, or even the required editing,  but dealing with footnotes.  I don't know if that is what you call "tagging" or not, but every footnote has to be cut and pasted individually into the Word document.  That is why I have not made my own edition of several works, because it is the footnotes that are often so valuable.  Now if someone ever invents a pdf converter that actually can handle footnotes - then we got it made!

In making Personal Books, I have found it great fun, but hard work.  Which makes me appreciate what Logos does, and more willing to pay Logos because there is a heck of a lot more tagging involved than most people realize.  But you certainly can do it yourself if you think the Logos price is too high.  Unsually, the Logos price is a bargain.

Michael Childs said:

I don't know if that is what you call "tagging" or not

That and referencing other resources in the logos library.

Michael Childs said:

Which makes me appreciate what Logos does, and more willing to pay Logos because there is a heck of a lot more tagging involved than most people realize.

Agreed. My point was just to "amen" the too expensive complaint in this thread in regard to public domain resources (logos is already in the black before it gets to pre-pub). Conversely, I agree with Jonathan Burke that modern resources still under contract with publishers are a great deal. My desire is just to see the older works a bit cheaper.

Gary Osborne said:

All I'll say to that is I'd be shocked if the answer isn't C-A-L-V-I-N-I-S-M.  I love Logos but darned if I still don't see it slanting more and more in the direction of Reformed dogma in terms of the percentage of material is offers.  It's so plain to me it's not even funny.  But that's just my two cents.  Feel free to bash - it's been ordained so what does it matter.

You mean to say that you don't like the higher packages because they contain correct doctrine?  Tsk, tsk.  [:D]

OLL is the best. Complement it with what You really need. I've done fine without BDAG - only if a new version of it comes out and/or my senior lecturerrequires me to have it I will purchase it.
OLL is designed for both Hebrew and Gk studies. I need mostly Gk, the Hebrew is just a bonus that I have more limited use of - so among else I've hid some Hebrew resources.

I'm venturing on Anabaptism and I'm somewhat close also to RCism (thank's to that I believe in purgatory in afterlife and that the bread literally turns into flesh in the Eucharist, I guess), so most of what Logos has to offer me and especially the Scholar's and higher base-packages are highly irrelevant to me.

Thanks, yeah it is!

Alexander Longacre said:

Without giving my theological perspective, I don't think this is a far statement. There has been a large increase, especially in the last 18 months, of other view points. I've seen a number of Catholic resources, for example, come through CP and PP.

We'll have to agree to disagree then.  I think my comments were not only fair, but extremely accurate.  The gap between Reformed/Baptist material vs Arminian/Wesleyan/Pentecostal material continues to widen as best I can tell.  But no hard feelings to anyone, regardless of theological persuasion.  I was simply commenting on what I feel like is a very clear trend.  [:)]

Gary Osborne said:

Alexander Longacre said:

Without giving my theological perspective, I don't think this is a far statement. There has been a large increase, especially in the last 18 months, of other view points. I've seen a number of Catholic resources, for example, come through CP and PP.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree then.  I think my comments were not only fair, but extremely accurate.  The gap between Reformed/Baptist material vs Arminian/Wesleyan/Pentecostal material continues to widen as best I can tell.  But no hard feelings to anyone, regardless of theological persuasion.  I was simply commenting on what I feel like is a very clear trend. 

No hard feelings Gary For sure, the majority of the resources currently available are more Baptist in nature. (I would disagree in reformed - then again the evangelical field is so convoluted, it's hard to pick our Reformed vs. not) My point was more of what has been coming out in the last year or so. For sure, if Logos wants to put out more of a scope of resources, they would have a long way to go to catch up other theological systems. That being said, I doubt it will ever be as robust as many other users would want. Logos is evangelical in it's standings so I would expect (for good or bad) more of those types of resources.