Speaker icon misplacement
Comparing 2 very common versions (ESV, NRSV) shows the speaker icon does not deal gracefully with the difference in clause sequence.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Comments
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Thank you for reporting this issue. We will fix it. [:)]
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What's the speaker icon? I do not see this?
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Dominick Sela said:
What's the speaker icon?
It's the little megaphone in the text that will tell you who the speaker of a quote is:
Dominick Sela said:I do not see this?
Make sure "Speaker Labels" is checked in the Visual Filters menu:
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Here's another type of situation where the speaker icon could be better. The examples are from John 10:1 and John 10:7. The first example is what doesn't seem right (Jesus does not speak the pericope heading!). The second example is what I wish the first looked like.
First example:
Second example:
EDIT: These examples are from the LEB. The same occurs in other versions I checked.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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I don't get it - this is about the third thing that does not show up in my install - see graphic, "Speaker labels" is not there! I added my About box to show I am on 5.0 beta 3, I was starting to wonder.
What's going on??
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Dominick Sela said:
I don't get it - this is about the third thing that does not show up in my install - see graphic, "Speaker labels" is not there! I added my About box to show I am on 5.0 beta 3, I was starting to wonder.
What's going on??
I noticed that the option doesn't appear in all versions. So it's possible that your ESV is not up to date.
Check your version of the ESV. This is what I have:
LLS:1.0.710
2012-10-12T16:52:28Z
ESV.logos4RVI:ESVNT
2012-10-11T20:40:31Z
ESVNT.lbsrviRVI:ESVOT
2012-10-12T01:08:38Z
ESVOT.lbsrviIf your versions are different, it may be related to the issue discovered here: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/56309/405848.aspx#405848 (Follow Todd's advice for a solution to update to the current version.)
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Here's another one in NIV84 and NIV11:
Icon should precede the word "What?" not follow it. Do you want us to report these here, or as typos?
EDIT: The next verse has another issue, an indirect quote marked as a direct quote (also NIV84 and NIV11):
EDIT: BTW, I'm reporting these as typos too.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard DeRuiter said:
Here's another one in NIV84 and NIV11:
Icon should precede the word "What?" not follow it. Do you want us to report these here, or as typos?
The speaker labels are based on the underlying Greek text. We don't currently handle situations where the translators insert words into the speech (that aren't aligned to the Greek). In this case, you could view it as a feature that identifies extra material. [;)]
Don't bother reporting these issues as typos; use typo reporting only for the text in the Bible itself. If it doesn't appear as the "Selection" on the context menu when you right-click, then don't use Report Typo.
We are working on a mechanism to report data errors, but it's not ready yet. (If you do report it as a typo, it should eventually get forwarded to the correct department, but it might take a long time.)
Richard DeRuiter said:EDIT: The next verse has another issue, an indirect quote marked as a direct quote (also NIV84 and NIV11):
The speaker labels come from the Greek, which (as I understand) doesn't have direct or indirect quotes. I don't think this is an error.
You'll also note that in Jn 9:36, the NIV splits the speech into two parts. The speaker labels visual filter (which is based on the Greek) only shows one icon because there is one speech in Greek.
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Compare all these examples with LEB (a more literal translation), and you'll see that the VF provides much better results.
And, in particular, in Jn 9:41, the phrase "We see" (spoken by the Pharisees) is quoted as direct speech.
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:
The speaker labels come from the Greek, which (as I understand) doesn't have direct or indirect quotes. I don't think this is an error.
I did not know that. Now I do.
Actually there is a marker in Greek for direct speech (hoti), though the same word could be seen as indirect (as the NIV handles it). It's not a big deal. When the question comes up later, we'll know the answer, and look smarter than we really are (a personal goal of mine).
EDIT: Actually, the problem with the John 9:41 passage is that the NIV doesn't translate literally, and the hoti does mark direct speech. This can be seen in the Greek text by the use of the first person plural ("we see") rather than the second person plural ("you see"). The NLT handles it like the NIV does and the speech icon looks even more odd.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard DeRuiter said:
I noticed that the option doesn't appear in all versions. So it's possible that your ESV is not up to date.
Check your version of the ESV. This is what I have:
LLS:1.0.710
2012-10-12T16:52:28Z
ESV.logos4RVI:ESVNT
2012-10-11T20:40:31Z
ESVNT.lbsrviRVI:ESVOT
2012-10-12T01:08:38Z
ESVOT.lbsrviMine are the same as yours...
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Dominick Sela said:
What's the speaker icon? I do not see this?
Dominick Sela said:Mine are the same as yours...
See my reply here: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/56935/407788.aspx#407788
Speaker labels depend on new Logos 5 data, which Dominick may not have access to.
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Richard DeRuiter said:
Here's another type of situation where the speaker icon could be better. The examples are from John 10:1 and John 10:7. The first example is what doesn't seem right (Jesus does not speak the pericope heading!). The second example is what I wish the first looked like.
First example:
Second example:
EDIT: These examples are from the LEB. The same occurs in other versions I checked.
I was just going to report this in Revelation 2 and 3.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
This is a known issue; I'll add it to the list.
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:
where the translators insert words into the speech (that aren't aligned to the Greek).
Thank you. Finally someone says (accurately) these word aren't aligned rather than that they are added!! Keep up the good work.[:D]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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