Official: Minimum Crossgrade and free engine download are coming!
Comments
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Naveen Balakrishnan said:
I just checked on my upgrade discount calculator and it shows that Believers Church Bible Commentary (24 vols) is new to me while I already own this particular set and shows up in my library.
If there are new volumes in a collection which you don't own, the calculator will reflect the collection as "new to you." Logos has claimed that the calculator does take into consideration the volumes you already own.
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When I clicked on the link for my personal calculator for a Logos 5 price, I found that the calculator accurately sifted out what I had with what I didn't have--except for two collections: 1) New American Commentary series (NAC, 40 vols.) and 2) the Believers Church Bible Commentary (24 vols.)
I doubt it'll lower my price significantly to lure me to buy a package, but just relaying info to those interested.
At this stage, I think I'm waiting for the opportunity to get Logos 5 engine and features, without adding any new books.
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Ted Weis said:
When I clicked on the link for my personal calculator for a Logos 5 price, I found that the calculator accurately sifted out what I had with what I didn't have--except for the 40 volume New American Commentary series (NAC).
I doubt it'll lower my price significantly to lure me to buy a package, but just relaying info to those interested.
At this stage, I think I'm waiting for the opportunity to get Logos 5 engine and features, without adding any new books.
Ted the NAC shows up if you own any NAC volumes, but calculates it based on the number. When I got L4 Platinum it came with volumes of the NAC but it wasn't 40. So it would show NAC on the upgrade page but only charge for 40 - the number already owned.
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Thanks Bob, Don & Logos Team,
in light of your post I will be considering my options
regards
David
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David said:
in light of your post I will be considering my options
Welcome to the forums David! [:)]
Let us know if we can help in any way. Are you a current Logos user?
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I have L4 Platinum plus other resources picked up along the way. I seriously doubt I'll upgrade to L5 via a base package. There really are not enough attractive resources to me in L5 Platinum, Diamond, or Portfolio to justify the cost. I already have more than I know what to do with. [:)] The minimum crossgrade is attractive, if I rightly understand that it basically moves my resources into the update Logos program.
Besides, after taking a year to pay off my NICOT/NT plus ISBE, I have no inclination to get tied up in another long-term monthly Logos payment.
That said, I appreciate Logos as a company and as a Bible software package.
Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC
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Bill, you are correct. You will keep your current resources.
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Hi Rick. What I wrote must have been a bit muddled. I know that I will keep my resources. I was just saying that the minimum crossgrade is essentially a program upgrade from what I understand, moving from version 4 to version 5.
Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC
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Bill Moore said:
Hi Rick. What I wrote must have been a bit muddled. I know that I will keep my resources. I was just saying that the minimum crossgrade is essentially a program upgrade from what I understand, moving from version 4 to version 5.
More like the minimum needed to get access to the new stuff listed in http://www.logos.com/features without adding any unneccessary new resources. A direct program upgrade will supposedly be free, but will be missing most of the cooler new features because you wouldn't have the data sets.
There are still some rendering bugs in Logos 5 on Windows 8 as well (scrolling a resources sometimes causes the left 200px to become stuck in place and out of sync), but many fewer than with Logos 4 (clicking on a tab opens the previous tab you clicked instead of the tab you actually clicked in resource views). So, waiting a while might get some additional bugs ironed out as well.
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OOOPS, Sorry Bill and thank you Robin for your clarification.
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Bill Moore said:
Hi Rick. What I wrote must have been a bit muddled. I know that I will keep my resources. I was just saying that the minimum crossgrade is essentially a program upgrade from what I understand, moving from version 4 to version 5.
Essentially the engine download is that. The crossgrade as it is sometimes called contains some of the features.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you.
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Bill Moore said:
Hi Rick. What I wrote must have been a bit muddled. I know that I will keep my resources. I was just saying that the minimum crossgrade is essentially a program upgrade from what I understand, moving from version 4 to version 5.
Essentially the engine download is that. The crossgrade as it is sometimes called contains some of the features.
See: The very first post.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you.
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Robin Monks said:
More like the minimum needed to get access to the new stuff listed in http://www.logos.com/features without adding any unneccessary new resources. A direct program upgrade will supposedly be free, but will be missing most of the cooler new features because you wouldn't have the data sets.
There are still some rendering bugs in Logos 5 on Windows 8 as well (scrolling a resources sometimes causes the left 200px to become stuck in place and out of sync), but many fewer than with Logos 4 (clicking on a tab opens the previous tab you clicked instead of the tab you actually clicked in resource views). So, waiting a while might get some additional bugs ironed out as well.
Hi Robin. I was thinking about other computer programs which are upgraded to the "next" level, e.g. BibleWorks and even WORDsearch. There is usually a charge to move up to the newly released upgrade, and I think that is proper. Whether L5 qualifies as an upgrade or not, I do not know, though I suspect it does. I do not yet have L5 and am not curious enough right now to work through the videos and forum posts to see what's new.
I will say that, while I understand the need to make things better, the continual upgrading of programs wearies me. I realize that it's been three years since L4 was released, and three years is akin to a couple of centuries when it comes to technology [;)], but it seems like I get fairly comfortable with one release when the next one comes around the bend.
Sometimes I'm confused as to whether I am working the software or the software is working me. When so much is at one's disposal, it takes effort to slow down and digest and meditate upon what one is reading.
Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC
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TCBlack said:
Essentially the engine download is that. The crossgrade as it is sometimes called contains some of the features.
See: The very first post.
I understand how Logos is using its terminology. I was relating, perhaps incorrectly, the entire engine download/minimum crossgrade to what other software companies would call their program upgrade. And for that, a $100 (preferably less!) fee would be understandable.
Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC
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redacted
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Yeah, I agree with a lot of the sentiment around how the upgrade was launched, and, I'd like to provide an alternate scenario, in another universe much like ours where Logos 5 launched like this:
Susan loves her Logos 4, and, one day after opening it and updates were applied she saw a screen offering for her to upgrade her app to version 5 for free, or to be reminded in a week. There were some UI changes, and support for a new library item type called "data sets," the first two were included for free and a short demo video was right there in the window. She had some free time, so she clicked Yes and Logos 5 and the two new data sets downloaded and she restarted in Logos 5.
She loved the new datasets, and a simple walk through demo was provided to show her exactly how to make the best use of them. After, she clicked on the new "Store" link and looked at all the other new data sets she could get, each one was $20 and came with a top library title that make the most use of it (that she didn't already own) to get her started, along with a list of all resources she didn't and did own that could make use of the new resource. Susan also got the option to expand her library in broad swoops if she wanted, and she quickly fell in love with and bought the Bronze package as well as an additional data set that suited her. She continued exploring the new Logos 5 while her resources downloaded in the background and bragged about searching the Bible by verb on Facebook to her friends. Now Susan loves her Logos 5.
Just a fictional case study for Logo's project dev and marketing teams the next time they get the itch to release a product and not confuse people
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James Jordan said:
At some point I would hope you will address those who "paid the bills" but I will settle for that day when it comes.
That's what the point of this thread is all about! I'm not sure what your point is?
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Mr. Pritchett, Thank you so very much for this clarification. Rev. Phillip D. Mosher
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The software will actually be free. The crossgrade will be new content that drives some of the features of that free software.Bill Moore said:I understand how Logos is using its terminology. I was relating, perhaps incorrectly, the entire engine download/minimum crossgrade to what other software companies would call their program upgrade.
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Bob,
As a new customer who is still in my time frame of making monthly payments to be able to afford this software (spending over $600), this upgrade gives me the disappointing feeling that I should have waited. I feel like I do when I bought my iPad 3 weeks before the new model came out and was stuck with a significantly inferior product. This seems very disappointing to me, a new customer, just joining the Logos family. I feel overlooked. Just sharing my thoughts as I would keep paying for an outdated and replaced product. This was not for content but the whole package.
Remaining in Him (1 John 2:28), Robert
Mac Book Pro, Windows 7 Professional, iPhone 4S, iPad 1
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Robert Iversen said:
I would keep paying for an outdated and replaced product.
Actually, you'll be paying for a product that is better than you knew when you bought it. You'll get L5 when you thought you were only buying L4. You just need to wait a little while for the free engine to become available first.
As for the package content, if you compare what you have with some L5 package and decide the L5 one would suit you better, give Sales a call, and they might let you switch, depending on how long you've had it. Just remember you'd lose any resources that are in the old package but not the new.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Robert Iversen said:
I feel like I do when I bought my iPad 3 weeks before the new model came out and was stuck with a significantly inferior product.
Do you know how silly it sounds for you to be complaining about this? Don't you know that Apple is always innovating? There will always be a "new" product? I struggle with always wanting the newest and best… but I realize that it is a part of my fallenness… It sounds like you are a little blind to this in yourself. With great kindness and respect, might I suggest meditating on Matthew 20:1-16?
I don't know when you purchased your base package from Logos. It sounds like you think it "wasn't too long ago," was it more than 30 days? Logos is fairly generous with their return policy. If you feel jipped, give them a call… but consider that Logos can't give everyone back their money who purchased X days ago. Where does it end?
FWIW – I would have preferred that Logos given advanced notice of perhaps a couple of weeks time. I think Logos could have done some things better… but they didn't do anything morally wrong.
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Naveen Balakrishnan said:
Pre-pubs coming due at the same time has been a struggle for me especially during August and I now see there is one bunch load coming up in the next couple of weeks. ... I am not sure that there is an easy answer to this dilemma of releasing pre-pubs at the same time as well as people who have just bought Logos 4 in the past six months.
Suggest calling Logos Sales. Thankful for option to combine Logos 5 upgrade with pre-publications that have a ship date into Logos payment plan.
Naveen Balakrishnan said:However, I am perplexed about this Logos 5 (new to you) includes in its pricing for my account NAC as new to me while I already own most of the resources in that set (37 of 40). I am not sure how the online discount calculator is configuring resources that I already own. I don't know the configurations of this tool which takes all that stuff into consideration or does it see me not owning the 40 volume set (as opposed to having paid the 37 vol set and just lacking the three newer volumes added to this configuration). This leaves me in quite a quandry. I am not sure the sales people have an adequate answer to this issue.
The upgrade calculator has a "New to you" icon when 1 or more resources in a collection would be added. In this case, credit for existing NAC volumes is included. Personally wish for upgrade to show a count of resources that are new.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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I love Logos, hard not to after 12 years of investment and many hours of exciting research and loving bible study. I appreciate Bob for clarifying what he did.
What strikes me as a bit unfortunate is Logos' seeming divergence away from the common practice of software companies and their upgrade releases. Of all the software that I have, when they release upgrades, they extend the upgrade discount prices to their existing customers first as a primary marketing strategy.
Why? Because excited and loyal existing customers are the best advertisement for potential new customers. While it is clear that pricey upgrades and new base package sales pay the bills, as a long term strategy this eventually breaks down because of oversight of existing loyal customers, which are the most powerful and effective advocates for sales.
Still holding out for this to be the case in the future. [;)]
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Robert Iversen said:
Bob,
As a new customer who is still in my time frame of making monthly payments to be able to afford this software (spending over $600), this upgrade gives me the disappointing feeling that I should have waited. I feel like I do when I bought my iPad 3 weeks before the new model came out and was stuck with a significantly inferior product. This seems very disappointing to me, a new customer, just joining the Logos family. I feel overlooked.
I don't think that's fair. How many months in are you? Did you buy 2 months ago? 4 months ago? If it's sooner - call them. Like you should have done with your iPad, since Apple has a 30 day return policy and you could have switched it out. By the way, the iPad 3 like Logos 4 is far from a "significantly inferior product". Both were replaced by newer products, but both are fantastic. I should know... I have the iPad 3, and up until a couple of days ago, I had Logos 4.
The good news, is you can keep using Logos 4. Soon you get Logos 5, for free, with limited new functionality, for a small crossgrade fee, for lots of new functionality, or if you want tons of new features and new content, you can tack on a new base package to your existing payment plan.
But you are decidedly not being asked to keep paying for an outdated and replaced product. You are on an installment plan. You spent the $XXX already, but they agreed to defer some of the payments. If you had done this on a credit card, rather than a Logos payment plan, it'd be the same. You'd still be paying off your purchase. My car is now two years out of date, and the newer model is superior in many ways. They even introduced some new features that I wish I could get, such as a hybrid engine as an option. I still pay monthly, for what I already have, however.
Soon, you'll see this happen again. The iPad 5 will be out. Logos 6 will be out. There will be nicer cars than mine.
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Matthew Candler said:
they extend the upgrade discount prices to their existing customers first as a primary marketing strategy.
By definition, an upgrade price only goes to existing customers. New customers aren't upgrading.
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I purchased the Silver upgrade which does not include the Bible Sense Lexicon (did not have enough money to buy the Gold version). Will this be available to me to purchase at a reasonable price separately down the road so I have all the new L5 features?
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Tim Engwer said:
Will this be available to me to purchase at a reasonable price separately down the road so I have all the new L5 features?
See Bob's statement at the very beginning of this thread - Final decisions have not been made, it is intended that the grossgrade will have "all/most of the datasets"
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If that is part of the minimal crossgrade you'll be able to get it at a discount. If not, you'll be waiting for Gold to come on sale for an acceptable price.Tim Engwer said:I purchased the Silver upgrade which does not include the Bible Sense Lexicon (did not have enough money to buy the Gold version). Will this be available to me to purchase at a reasonable price separately down the road so I have all the new L5 features?
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Thanks Bob for your reply. This adds clarity your sales and marketing team seem to have failed to convey.
I look forward to less sales pitches and more honest promotions and assurance (with dates and consistent behavior) that my investment into Logos will continue into new versions with simplicity and reliability.
Excited for your new "baby". I'm also excited to partner with Logos ($110 in pre-pub orders) to help release new content for you to sell.
Please let us know dates when these new options will be available.
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