Maybe it is time for Logos to Change its Business Model
Bob Pritchett made it clear. Logos makes money by selling books. If you aren't buying books regularly, you aren't helping Logos meets its profit goals. If Logos can't meet its profit goals, they can't stay in business. Even if you have spent thousands of dollars on your library, you are no longer of fiscal value to Logos unless you keep buying regularly.
Think of it like buying a new car. Once you buy that car, and even though you have spent a fortune on it, you are of no fiscal value to the car manufacturer or dealer until you buy your next car. Hence the present dilemma. Logos wants us to pony up for another package to get the latest version of their software (new car). However, many of us are happy with our present package (used car) but just want a new paint job.
What is the solution? I think it is time for Logos to decouple its software from its books. Make package purchases a one time event. Allow present users to buy the new software if they want to or just continue to use their older software. Let them buy the new software at the time of launch and not have to wait for a crossgrade. Continue to offer a free engine or previous version to those who just want to access their books without upgrading. Lower prices to stimulate sales of books without making users wait for special sales (everyday low pricing). Create new packages containing new books, backlist titles and public domain books for specialized interests (e. g. Original Languages, Apologetics, Church History, OT, NT, etc.) Allow users to get additional discounts if they buy more at one time.
Thoughts?
Director of Zoeproject
www.zoeproject.com
Comments
-
I think the present model is just fine and working well for most people: changing the model now would be re-negging on the promises made to everyone when they first go on board whether that was a few months ago or more than a decade ago, that the software would remain free and you only pay if you want more resources.
I like your new car analogy: many are satisfied with the used car: so what is wrong with staying with the model you bought into: absoutely nothing, the resources you bought and the Logos 4 software work just fine for everyone, well almost everyone. The only problem is that there is a shiny new car available in the showroom. You do not have to buy the new model, the current one is working well for you and most of the rest of us. Is the essence of the complaining that you expect Logos to invest tens of thousands of extra dollars so that they have enough servers and enough bandwidth to serve every new customer the new software package the moment it is released ?
The only potential "benefit" to changing the business model to make people pay for a shiny new version of the software would likely be that the direction of the complaints would change, but only a very little. Then the complaints would be that Logos is charging too much for the shiny new software. Did we all have to rush out and buy new faster computers with touch screens and Windows 8 in the last week or so ? Did we all rush out and buy a new iPad mini this week ? Do we have to pay anything at all for our existing packages of resources to still work ?
If Ford, GM or Toyota come out with a new model with the same name as the one you already have (by the same model name) which has more room and more better features and better gas mileage do you get upset because yours does not ? How many people are posting in the Microsoft User Forums this week complaining that they called the new operating system "Windows" when it should have been called "Tiles" because it does not have the same content as the old windows they are familar with ?Bottom line is that Logos uses a business model which requires book sales in order for them to meet payroll cost; if the economy picks up (IF) then they might sell more and be able to make a profit. Right now the economy is not doing so well so sales are going to be tighter all round.
If you really really really need to get a look at the new software and you have a top end package like Portfolio JG for Logos 4, than take a look at your cost to "upgrade" to Bronze or Silver to get an opportunity to kick the tires and see how it performs. Do this through a chat with someone in the sales department, make sure you BOTH note what discounts you may have been offered to upgrade to higher packages (as this might change when you upgrade to a different package), and if the new model is less than you hoped for use the 30 day return policy and get a refund. If you like what you see, take a couple of weeks to see whether you want to add any of the new resources offered in packages, these are all optional, Logos works quite well with sets and collections of resources which have nothing to do with any of the packages. Just make a decision on additional resources per teh packages (or not) within the 30 day period to keep everything easy within existing return policies. Buy the resources you need and will use. Just be aware that there are major discounts if your wants/needs happen to match what is offered in named packages and these are good enough that, for many, the package is a better deal even if you already know the package contains some resources you will likely never use; its the deal you get on the resources in the package that you will likely use that should help make the decision for you.
If like some of use your money is tight right now, then sit it out and wait a while.
There should be a couple of good sermon topics re the reactions we have seen on the forums these last few days....... [*-)]
0 -
David,
You made some good points. Here are my responses:
I think the present model is just fine and working well for most people: changing the model now would be re-negging on the promises made to everyone when they first go on board whether that was a few months ago or more than a decade ago, that the software would remain free and you only pay if you want more resources.
My solution: Continue to offer a free engine or previous version to those who just want to access their books without upgrading.
Is the essence of the complaining that you expect Logos to invest tens of thousands of extra dollars so that they have enough servers and enough bandwidth to serve every new customer the new software package the moment it is released ?
My solution: It would be easy enough for Logos to offer the software via a torrent or to lease server space as needed from Amazon via EC2 (elastic cloud) or another supplier for software rollouts.
The only potential "benefit" to changing the business model to make people pay for a shiny new version of the software would likely be that the direction of the complaints would change, but only a very little. Then the complaints would be that Logos is charging too much for the shiny new software.
Bob already made it clear that they plan to offer the minimal crossgrade to existing users for "less than $100". I am sure that most users (myself included) would not mind paying $99 every few years for a software upgrade.
If like some of us your money is tight right now, then sit it out and wait a while.
Exactly what I am doing. However, this approach does not help Logos underwrite its business.
Director of Zoeproject
www.zoeproject.com
0 -
Well, I certainly try to do my part to fund Bob's .34% profit. I try my best only to buy Libronix books. So the profit after royalty must be a bunch!! Plus I have a bad tendency to get the 'scholarly' ones (that ARE well priced on Logos). I'm even stupid enough to forego the community price ones and then a couple months later, buy at full price. Now THAT is REALLY supporting Bob's .34% profit margin!!
But more seriously, as I understand it, the software and books are closely linked (why they won't make me any more Libronix books .... tears in my beer). And why the XP'ers are going to soon run into problems buying books.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Tony Thomas said:
Make package purchases a one time event.
Tony Thomas said:Create new packages containing new books, backlist titles and public domain books for specialized interests (e. g. Original Languages, Apologetics, Church History, OT, NT, etc.) Allow users to get additional discounts if they buy more at one time.
This is already what happens! I don't understand your point.
Tony Thomas said:Allow present users to buy the new software if they want to or just continue to use their older software.
Tony Thomas said:Continue to offer a free engine or previous version to those who just want to access their books without upgrading.
Again, this already happens! Users will be able to upgrade just the software… just not yet.
Tony Thomas said:Let them buy the new software at the time of launch and not have to wait for a crossgrade.
The current way of doing things crashed the Logos servers and they had to upgrade to meet demand. How is adding more customers at once a good idea?
Tony Thomas said:Lower prices to stimulate sales of books without making users wait for special sales (everyday low pricing).
The truth is that people like sales and are attracted to buy more when things are "on sale." I agree with you… kind of. But its a bad business model unless you can gain LARGE market share. Amazon & Wal*Mart do this… not many others can. Logos can't. As an illustration, look at JC Penny's. They changed their model to "Fair and Square" and have been loosing market share rapidly. I personally like the new system… my wife hates it. She told me yesterday that she isn't going back unless she has to.
For the most part, I think Logos does an OK job with pricing. The worst part is resources which are in public domain. Logos offers these on Community Pricing and they are a really good deal. If Logos didn't raise the prices afterwards, there would be no incentive for people to jump on board to make it happen. Personally, I think Logos should reduce the "regular" price of these resources after a given time (maybe 2-3 years). Maybe they will. [:)]
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
To extend your car analogy - a year ago we purchased a new car. we were able to get most of the options we wanted at a good price by purchasing a certain package. However we didn't want to step up to the next higher level just to get one particular option. However, for Christmas this year I am taking my wife's one year old car back to the dealer and having them install the remote starter. I support the dealer by having him do the install and Since it uses factory-direct parts it will Integrate seamlessly with the remote entry she already has. The key is Factory parts that are available individually after the sale allows the dealer to generate sales and keeps me happy in a well performing vehicle without purchasing a new one every year.
I think too many people are getting hung up on the label of their package and are forgetting that Logos continues to roll out new products all the time. I don't have to wait until L6 comes out nor do I have to upgrade to a package level to gain new resources that 1) make profit for Logos and 2) make me a better student of the Word. Purchasing the Lexham Discourse Hebrew Bundle a month ago is an example of what I am talking about.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
0 -
Tony Thomas said:
My solution: It would be easy enough for Logos to offer the software via a torrent or to lease server space as needed from Amazon via EC2 (elastic cloud) or another supplier for software rollouts.
Funny thing - Bob had this idea at least 3 years ago. I'm not privy to distribution of Logos' server services but we've been told that Amazon is part of the mix. (PS. please don't tell my nephew who works for Cisco[:)])
Tony Thomas said:Bob already made it clear that they plan to offer the minimal crossgrade to existing users for "less than $100". I am sure that most users (myself included) would not mind paying $99 every few years for a software upgrade.
Does it really matter if you are buying software or buying the resources required for the software functions? It seems to me that the final state is exactly the same regardless of what terminology you have used to get there.
This best thing about this sort of description is that I can honestly say I have absolutely no experience (or interest in) business management so I'm perfectly willing to let Bob run Bob's business. I suspect at times he wishes I would say the same thing about his application/development decisions.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
The difference is that users who have spent a lot of $$$ in the past but need no new resources are made to feel like second-class citizens. If you roll out software (minimal crossgrade) at the same time as packages at a reasonable price, then everyone is happy.
And as far as server load and bandwidth, the software alone has a much smaller footprint than the software plus packages, so that shouldn't be a huge issue. In any case, there are scalable server options like Amazon EC2 that you can configure in minutes and rent by the hour.
The bottom line is that great companies provide a great customer experience. And this hasn't been a great customer experience for many of us.
Director of Zoeproject
www.zoeproject.com
0 -
Tony Thomas said:
If you roll out software (minimal crossgrade) at the same time as packages at a reasonable price, then everyone is happy.
+1 [Y] ideally the http://www.logos.com/upgrade page would have included minimal crossgrade plus upgrades.
Wonder about a Verbum upgrade/crossgrade page ?
Keep Smiling [:)]
0 -
Tony Thomas said:
The difference is that users who have spent a lot of $$ in the past but need no new resources are made to feel like second-class citizens. If you roll out software (minimal crossgrade) at the same time as packages at a reasonable price, then everyone is happy.
And as far as server load and bandwidth, the software alone has a much smaller footprint than the software plus packages, so that shouldn't be a huge issue. In any case, there are scalable server options like Amazon EC2 that you can configure in minutes and rent by the hour.
The bottom line is that great companies provide a great customer experience. And this hasn't been a great customer experience for many of us
There are some differences between how Logos upgrades compared to Microsoft for example. The main difference is that in Logos you can call and talk to a person and make an order or get help with your installation for FREE. It may be easy to rent additional servers for a month, but it is not easy to hire temporary help for a month who can adequately help customers.
I am happy with the present business model of Logos where they will upgrade the main software program for free. Retirement and fixed income is about 10 years away and I very much want them to keep the present business model. I have spend about $4,000 with Logos and will keep on spending for awhile. But I know that will change in the future.
I have wasted money in the past with Bible software who wanted to resell a commentary set rather update your software. Waiting a month does not make me feel like a second class customer. Having to throw out an electronic version of a commentary set that cost $100 because it no longer works makes me feel like a second class customer.
0 -
Logos can't really change because they would 1. upset people who have relied on their promise and 2. be required to maintain all the previous versions of Logos. e.g. L3 depended on Internet Explorer and every time MS updated Explorer Logos would have to update L3. Logos no longer wants to have to maintain L3 so it is basically broken on newer machines but why would you continue to run L3 when L4 or L5 etc. is a free upgrade away. These "free" upgrades also save Logos money in the long run and keep customer happy.
0 -
Tony I appreciate your comments about being able to purchase upgrades to the Logos program when new releases are made available to the public. For what's worth I agree and would appreciate this being offered for future updates.
Of course, it was most unfortunate that their server(s) were down intermittently during launch day, presumably due to unusually high traffic. Because of this, I had difficulty using my Logos 4 program (I enable Internet use and the Homepage), but I survived.
With regards to Logos 5, I was unable to read what exactly the new base packages were all about. Left to my own devices there was shock, disbelief, and frustration, which was exasperated due to the above mentioned problems.
Now that I understand my Platinum+ content remains intact, as well as my Logos 4 program, all that remains is now a desire to use the new features of Logos 5 (especially interested in the sermon utility). I think this "desire" made a "top 10 list" somewhere early in the Bible.
Wish I could blame growth on my part, but for some reason just not upset or anxious to upgrade for $550 (approximately) for Gold. While I believe this package represents good value, I do not need more books not to read, but would enjoy accessing some of the new features sooner than later - but not at any price.Tony perhaps next time around there will be an upgrade option available to us on launch day.
0
