The problem I have with upgrading...
I'm on Scholar's Library, and the upgrading system seems to think a good upgrade for me would be Silver. I like the idea from the perspective of the data sets included, but there are many books included I have no interest in using- mainly ones targeted at church leaders or Catholics. If I upgrade to a 'lesser' version, I avoid having to pay for a ton of books I won't use, but I miss out on the data sets. Plus, if I then add to my order the books I would actually use, things wind up costing a lot more.
Is there a solution for someone like me, or would Logos do better by offering truly customisable packages?
Comments
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Joel said:
I'm on Scholar's Library, and the upgrading system seems to think a good upgrade for me would be Silver. I like the idea from the perspective of the data sets included, but there are many books included I have no interest in using- mainly ones targeted at church leaders or Catholics. If I upgrade to a 'lesser' version, I avoid having to pay for a ton of books I won't use, but I miss out on the data sets. Plus, if I then add to my order the books I would actually use, things wind up costing a lot more.
Hi Joel,
You may have missed this, but Logos have recently announced that they will be releasing a minimal crossover (containing some of the data sets and functionality, but minimal resources) and the free L5 engine (without the new functionality) over the coming weeks. The details have not yet been announced, but, given your quandry, you may wish to wait until these further details become apparent.
A number of users on the forums find themselves in your situation. My advice would be to wait until things become a little clear with regards to Logos' intentions in respect of the minimal crossgrade.
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Thanks Andy, that I had seen. My guess though is that the minimal crossgrade will lack the data sets of something like Silver, but you're right that I guess time will tell. It's a shame in a way for Logos that packages are seemingly designed to suit a certain demographic, because like when I moved to L4, the only thing that suited me was a minimal crossgrade.
HINT HINT Logos
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Joel said:
My guess though is that the minimal crossgrade will lack the data sets of something like Silver, but you're right that I guess time will tell.
I don't have huge insight into what Logos is intending, but I would not be too despondent. I have heard some discussion which suggests (and nothing more than suggests) that the minimal crossgrade may exceed your expectations.
Joel said:HINT HINT Logos
One impressive thing about Logos is that they are very responsive to their customers' needs and suggestions. This is why it is good that you raise your concerns and highlight your situation!
Blessings in your decision [:D]
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Andy Evans said:
One impressive thing about Logos is that they are very responsive to their customers' needs and suggestions.
That's a bunch of Baloney!!
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I too have Scholar's with 50 or so resources I've added over the years since 2.0. The Upgrade system is recommending Silver and there is no question that Logos is giving a major discount on the included books. I've wanted the NAC commentaries for a while (now 40 volumes). The paper versions are $15-$20 each from CBD and Logos lists the regular price for the set at $600. So that set alone more than covers the upgrade cost. Half of the books offered I'll never read, but if the other half has value, then I doubt there will be a cheaper way to get them. The customizing option still means buying individual books and sets, and that is bound to cost more than a package deal.
Anyway, I'm holding off for a bit to see how Logos 5 is working for everyone and what will be included with the crossgrade options.
Ben
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Bob says the cross grade will contain all/most of the data sets http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58259.aspx
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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I have used Logos software since Libronix 2 and have never been disappointed with each upgrade through the years. But I haven't upgraded to L5 just yet. It isn't a matter of IF but WHEN since I won't be in the position financially to do it until December. We are on an extremely tight budget and have limited discretionary income, so even the payment plans push us to the limit.
That said I do have a couple of questions. I am currently using the Scholar's Library (KF) version. I am planning on upgrading to the Silver addition of L5. The payments will be manageable and I will get a significant number of additional resources. But for another $30.00 monthly I can go to the Gold version. In a nutshell, is it worth it? I don't want to spend an extra $30.00 a month for a lot of resources I will seldom, if ever use. Truth be told I have tons of resources with my current version that I have never opened.
My second question is concerns Windows 8. I upgraded last week and am extremely happy with it. Logos 4 came over without a hitch and runs very well under the new OS. I don't want to upgrade to L5 only to find out after the fact that there are issues between it and Windows 8.
Your feedback is greatly appreciated.
Blessings,
Bob
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Dennis Miller said:
That's a bunch of Baloney!!
In today's information age negative comments are part of buying and selling. All products have both positive and negative comments. For example, when dealing with comments on Amazon, I look at negative comments and see if they have substance. I ask are the issues they raise up likely to deal with my set of circumstances. You have made five contribution to the forum so far today. None of them have substance and so most people will ignore them and look for someone who has a well-reasoned comment. It appears you have not tried Logos 5 and so really have no basis to make such comments.
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Dennis Miller said:
That's a bunch of Baloney!!
Do you have anything useful or constructive to add to the discussion? I'm just asking.
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Hi Bob
Bob Schlessman said:I don't want to upgrade to L5 only to find out after the fact that there are issues between it and Windows 8.
A number of people are running Logos 5 against Windows 8 and are reporting everything is fine
Graham
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Graham Criddle said:
A number of people are running Logos 5 against Windows 8 and are reporting everything is fine
Thank you Graham.
Bob
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I have been a Logos user since Logos 3. Purchased my first packages from CBD, which was the Bible Study collection. Not long after, I picked up the MacArthur, Jeremiah, and Hayford sets on a closeout from Nelson. When L4 come out, I upgraded to the Scholars package.
When I look at all of the Community pricing, plus upgrades purchased in the past 5 years directly from Logos, I have spent over $1000.00. Add the initial L3 purchases, and it comes to around $1400. No particular point other than we spend a lot of money on computer resources over time.
I am just a lay person, trying to teach an adult Sunday school class. I am not a power user. In fact I am barely using the resources I have. For me, Logos is not very intuitive in creating a lesson plan. I just follow the cross references I find to the topic or main Bible passage I am teaching on, then cut and paste into a Word doc. I would prefer that Logos help me create my lesson outline within Logos, rather than me having to cut and paste to Word.
One other point I have is that I cannot figure out how Maps in Logos is linked to Bible passages. When my passage includes a place, why can't I click on a link to a map? Sometimes I want to see the geographic position in relation to time or space. I would then like to place that map in my lesson plan.
A recent example for me would be following the time line of Paul's Jerusalem witnessing just after conversion and his being rescued and sent to Tarsus (Acts 9). I see a parallel to other events that a map would clarify. So I just use the old outdated maps at church to locate the places. I would prefer to find them in Logos. (Yes, I know they are there, but they are too user unfriendly for me.)
To bring my thoughts back in focus, I hope L5 addresses some of my issues. I will gladly upgrade if I see value and makes the program more user friendly for me. Don't have any complaint about changing terminology on resource packages. Things change. I do sympathize with anyone who just purchased L4 and now have to turn around and pay for an upgrade.
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Bob Schlessman said:
But for another $30.00 monthly I can go to the Gold version. In a nutshell, is it worth it? I don't want to spend an extra $30.00 a month for a lot of resources I will seldom, if ever use. Truth be told I have tons of resources with my current version that I have never opened.
Some users have mentioned upgrading to L5 Silver then buying the minimal crossgrade when it comes available in order to get the datasets that are included in Gold that are not in Silver. This may be less expensive than "going gold" There are 2 things to consider.
1. Bob has said "all/most" of the datasets will be included in the minimal crossgrade. They have not yet made a final decison, plus some resources may increase the effectiveness of the dataset.
2. With new dynamic pricing (that considers all resources you already own) your price for the minimal crossgrade should be very minimal.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Wayne said:Dennis Miller said:
That's a bunch of Baloney!!
It appears you have not tried Logos 5 and so really have no basis to make such comments.
Wayne, your correct. I have Logos 4, a $2500+ investment in Logos products over the years and broken promises. What positive comments of substance would you like me to make, that at least what works is great and now I've got the opportunity to upgrade to a better product. OK, Logos 4 was a great product by design and made many people happy with there innovation and capabilities it worked to the majorities expectations and now everyone can enjoy that same positive experience and enthusiasm by upgrading to the new and improved Logos 5. Hows that?
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On the Sermon Starter Guide: Thematic outlines section you may find something you can use. Photo:Gerald said:I would prefer that Logos help me create my lesson outline within Logos, rather than me having to cut and paste to Word.
Gerald said:One other point I have is that I cannot figure out how Maps in Logos is linked to Bible passages. When my passage includes a place, why can't I click on a link to a map? Sometimes I want to see the geographic position in relation to time or space. I would then like to place that map in my lesson plan.
You can do this in both L4 and L5, though it is slightly different.
- Right click on the place name in your Bible.
- On the right side of the menu, select "place"
- Select Biblical places in L4 or Bible facts in L5 to pull up the map and other data.
- From there you ought to be able to right click on the map and copy it in order to paste it into your lesson plan.
Here is the map this comes up with:
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Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Just a minute, I'll stick my head in the sand and join the rest of you. LOGOS HAS ALWAYS SATISFIED ITS CUSTOMERS WITH GREAT PERFORMING BIBLE STUDY SOFTWARE ON ALL PLATFORMS AND LOGOS 5 WILL BE NO EXCEPTION!!!
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Thanks for the information. I found the link for maps. I don't have, or can't find the Sermon Starter Guide / Thematic outlining tool. Maybe it is in a higher package that I don't have.
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Bob Schlessman said:
That said I do have a couple of questions. I am currently using the Scholar's Library (KF) version. I am planning on upgrading to the Silver addition of L5. The payments will be manageable and I will get a significant number of additional resources. But for another $30.00 monthly I can go to the Gold version. In a nutshell, is it worth it? I don't want to spend an extra $30.00 a month for a lot of resources I will seldom, if ever use. Truth be told I have tons of resources with my current version that I have never opened.
My Scholar's edition is JG. Wasn't there a crossgrade a while back from KF to JG? You asked for feedback, so here is mine. I'm not a fan of filling my hard drive with junk I'll never use. On the other hand, I do want to get the resources I will use for the best possible price. The cheapest prices Logos offers are with the package upgrades. So you should look through the Silver and Gold L5 packages and make sure that the resources you actually want and need add up to the right value for you. Ignore the rest of the stuff that you've never heard of or know you'll never use. Don't fall into the trap of thinking, "Well maybe it will be useful later." In your case with the tight budget, I recommend not spending the extra $30 per month unless you have specifically identified resources in Gold that add up to that value.
For me, the only resource in Gold over Silver that would be useful is the Bible Sense Lexicon. It probably needs some resources that are included with Gold and that is why it is not in Silver. However, is it worth the extra $350? Not for me. And that is why I will wait for the crossgrade options to be revealed to see if there is another option. If not, then I'll probably get Silver and wait for a future deal. My 2 cents . . .
Ben
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Gerald ... your points on intuitiveness are very much valid. In your map example, it took me almost a year to figure out the 'Biblical Places' on the right-click menu wasn't a header!
Of course then, if you click on it for the maps, it doesn't zoom in to the location. So I go to the kitchen drawer for the magnifying glass to see if I can find it. That was before someone said you could zoom in, if you can remember the key-combination or have a mouse (I don't; on a portable).
That's not mentioning the miscellaneous thumb-nails with no labels unless you move your mouse over them.
I really don't understand why Logos spends so much money on 'content' but leaves simplicity and ease of use for another day. I've owned Logos now for 7 years and can't remember recommending to anyone, mainly due to 'hard to use' and 'pretty expensive'.
And Dennis ... you're just like someone that's complaining about the icy steps to the sanctuary. Just because someone could slip and fall doesn't mean EVERYONE will slip and fall. If most people can successfully negotiate the ice, then that means its OK.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Hi Gerald
Gerald said:I don't have, or can't find the Sermon Starter Guide / Thematic outlining tool. Maybe it is in a higher package that I don't have.
This is new in Logos 5 which - from one of your earlier posts in this thread - I don't believe you have upgraded to.
You also talked about copying and pasting into Word documents. Have you tried using Logos notes instead and - if so - what functionality didn't they provide?
I'm aware that they don't address all requirements but just checking if you were aware of them.
Graham
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DMB said:
Gerald ... your points on intuitiveness are very much valid. In your map example, it took me almost a year to figure out the 'Biblical Places' on the right-click menu wasn't a header!
Seriously the double sided menu on the right click is a big deal. It contains a large quantity of options. But once you get used to looking "right" before you look "left" you'll streamline your study process.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Dennis Miller said:
That's a bunch of Baloney!!
Dennis,
I am sorry you had a bad experience with Logos. And you are certainly entitled to your opinion of the software, the prices, and the service. You are entitled to voice that without criticism.
I have felt free to criticize Logos if I thought something was not right. However, I have found them pretty responsive. They have bent over backwards to be fair with me. I have been especially impressed the President of the company reads these forums and often responds personally. That is pretty unusual in today's world.
And my overall experience with Logos has been wonderful. That is my experience and my opinion.
We don't have to be hostile with one another if we disagree.
By the way, I love your commentaries on O'Reilly. [;)]
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Gerald said:
I am just a lay person, trying to teach an adult Sunday school class. I am not a power user. In fact I am barely using the resources I have. For me, Logos is not very intuitive in creating a lesson plan. I just follow the cross references I find to the topic or main Bible passage I am teaching on, then cut and paste into a Word doc. I would prefer that Logos help me create my lesson outline within Logos, rather than me having to cut and paste to Word.
I use Logos for sermons, articles, class notes, etc. The fact is that Notes in Logos is very basic. They made a decision some time back not to try to compete with full word processors. Notes are great for a personal commentary on the text. You can then hover your mouse over the link and get a popup of your previous thoughts. For anything else you can be way more creative and flexible with a word processor.
The layout that works for me when writing is to let the word processor (I use LibreOffice) take the left half of the screen and Logos the right half. In Win7 this is easy by dragging the windows off the left and right sides. I set Logos to have two panes one above the other. On top I put the Bible texts in tabs and on the bottom the Search and helps in tabs. This setup makes it very simple to copy and paste with either the hotkeys or the CBV tab for more formatting. The benefit is that there is no switching back and forth between windows because they are both fully visible at the same time.
Regarding outlines, if you want to see samples relating to your topic, some packages do have hundreds of sermon outlines. Plus there are outlines on just about every topic available online.
Ben
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DMB said:
And Dennis ... you're just like someone that's complaining about the icy steps to the sanctuary. Just because someone could slip and fall doesn't mean EVERYONE will slip and fall. If most people can successfully negotiate the ice, then that means its OK.
Wow!! so instead of doing the right thing and cleaning them off to make them safe for everyone just hope for minimal injuries from preventable falls.
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Well, Dennis ... as strange as it might seem, that actually happened one winter at our church. Eventually someone went and got a shovel to chop out the ice. Most surprising was that it was evening services, the participants were older, and the shoveler ended up to be one of the ladies.
Same thing happened one time, when a Buddhist lady's car wouldn't 'go' at a major intercection. Eventually it was the ladies that helped push her car over to the side.
Oddly, Christians really get wound up when they see 'negativity'. You could be crossing the desert and mention your water's almost out. The Christians would ask why you can't better manage your consumption. The Logos-ians would suggest watching a video.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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