Windows 8 tablet
I was wondering if anyone anyone uses logos on a windows 8 tablet? I was under the impression that you can run full logos program on a windows 8 Tablet. Just looking for some feed back before i buy it. I think one of them is called a surface, or an ATIV.
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Logos 5 will run on Surface Pro to be released in 2013.
Logos Series X Pastor’s Library | Logos 3 Leader’s Library | 4 Portfolio | 5 Platinum | 6 Feature Crossgrade | 7 Essential | 8 M & W Platinum and Academic Professional | 9 Academic Professional and Messianic Jewish Diamond
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thanks! Would you recommend this over an iPad?
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Orpheus ... if you're question speaks to Logos5 (on the Windows 8 Surface), there's no comparison. iPad doesn't run Logos5 (instead, the smaller iOS version).
But our friend from Australia has cautioned that we don't know how powerful the Surface will be with Logos5. It might be pretty 'sticky'.
If your question is the smaller Windows 8 (Arm processor) vs the iPad, I'm sure Alabama will like to comment.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Orpheus Heyward said:
thanks! Would you recommend this over an iPad?
I would because the iPad simply runs an app (a cut down version of Logos) while the Surface Pro will run the full program, and likely anything else you would like to throw at it. Here’s a short c/net article on Surface Pro and the Microsoft website so you can determine for yourself which would be better for your situation.
Logos Series X Pastor’s Library | Logos 3 Leader’s Library | 4 Portfolio | 5 Platinum | 6 Feature Crossgrade | 7 Essential | 8 M & W Platinum and Academic Professional | 9 Academic Professional and Messianic Jewish Diamond
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You will need to avoid the currently available MS Surface which does not run the full version of Windows 8 (but a cut down version called Windows RT which will never be able to run Logos 5, but has a specially cut down Logos Bible app that you can use as a reader).
Be careful also which version of the MS Surface with Windows 8 Pro you get, as you could agan get stuck if you have more than a few Logos books.
http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-CA/surface-with-windows-8-pro/home
You will note that the Windows 8 Pro Surface will come in two versions, one with 64GB and one with 128 GB.
Remember that you not only need enough space for your current Logos resources AND the ones you will likely acquire during the life of the Surface, but you also need enough room on the Surface to be able to index (and sometime re-index) them. Also beware of a little lightly grayed note 3 at the bottom of the page giving details of the Microsoft Surface:
System software uses significant storage space; your storage capacity will be less.
http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-CA/surface-with-windows-rt/help-me-choose
You get a lot less than 64GB available to run Logos and everything else you will want on your tablet: you may want to avoid tablets with Windows 8 Pro that have 64GB or less of memory available as it will likely restrict what you can install on your machine. I would suggest 128GB minimum if you want to use Logos 5. If you are willing to settle for a tablet running a cut down Logos app, you will probably still want at least 32GB memory on the tablet. There are numerous "complaints" posted in these forums from people with smaller tablet memory wondering why they cannot fit all their books on their tablet (along with everything else they want on there).
Remember you have a considerable investment in Logos 5, it is high end software and it will need a high end tablet, especially if you have more than a few Logos resources to work with. A high end tablet is going to cost a LOT more than a low end tablet, probably in the $1000 to $1200 range. There is a lot of competition in the Tablet market and lots of manufacturers trying to sell cheaper versions of tablets which may sound promising but will be very limited in what they can do. We have NO REVIEWS on how Logos 5 works on a WINDOWS 8 PRO Surface Tablet with a lot of resources. The specs sound promising, but we have yet to see how these will work out in practice. A 10.6" 1920x1080 screen and 128GB memory should work if everything else is engineered properly. Full-size USB 3.0 and microSDXC card slot should allow reasonable expansion capability, Imagine what one of these might do with a 2TB micro SDXC !! But recognize that the cost of a 2TB SDXC card, once they become available, will probably start out being more than the cost of your high end tablet !!
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Thank you for the info. I am really considering purchasing the new surface that is about to come out in the month of January. I am anxious to run logos 5 full version on a tablet. I appreciate all of the pointers you have given me to consider as I ponder this decision. All of you have been extremely helpful.
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Scott E. Mahle said:
I would because the iPad simply runs an app (a cut down version of Logos) while the Surface Pro will run the full program
But will it run Logos well enough to be worth using? We just do not know since no one has seen one do it yet. The processor sounds adequate, However, how much ram will this tablet have? Four GB would be minimum to run Logos in a usable form, and it would take at least 6 GB to run it well. Will Surface Pro have that much ram?
We are getting closer to a tablet that can run the full Logos program, but whether Surface Pro will be the one remains to be seen. Indeed, it might require some re-writing of Logos before this is practical. After all, Logos was not written to be run on any tablet, no matter what the specs. And Logos may have to wait until the right tablet is out there, with enough market saturation, to make such rewriting practical.
I hope Surface Pro can do the job, but I remain skeptical. At present a well equipped laptop is still the only practical portable way to run Logos 5. That along with my iPad for extended reading and portability is my best solution. Maybe 2013 will bring a better answer.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Specs for the Pro say:
- 3rd Gen Intel Core i5 Processor with Intel HD Graphics 4000
- 4GB RAM—Dual Channel Memory
but as Michael implied, the whole system will have to be well engineered to run Logos 5 usefully.
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Thanks David for that information. I was just trying to look up how much ram the Surface pro will have.
The processor does seem okay for Logos, but the ram is bare minimum to run it, in my opinion. And what about graphics? This tablet is a step forward, but I fear that the Surface Pro will amount to a premium price for a sub-par performance with regard to Logos. Don't know that is certain, but it is my best guess. Will be anxious to find out.
The really good news is that we can expect tablets to get better and better. So running full Logos well on one is definitely going to happen. Some day.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
A 10.6" 1920x1080 screen:
well the resolution seems to spec out as adequate - it is the same resolution currently running on the 25" monitor on my desktop, but will I be able to read the font without tweaking the font size for such a small screen - wonder if we can tweak font size in Logos specific to an individual machine or whether that feature gets rolled in for use on my desktop too..... ? Anyone know ?
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I am looking for a tablet, and was leaning towards a Windows 8 tablet to ensure that I can use the full functionality of Logos, but they are very expensive compared to Android or Apple tablets. Is there a comparison anywhere of what you get/lose by using the Android operating system?
There are a few other options other than the Windows Surface Pro like the Samsung ATIV Smart PC Pro (XE700T1C-A01AU) (i5 processor) and the Acer ICONIA W700-53314G12as (i5 processor). Has anyone had a play with something like this? The Samsung has a baby brother with an Atom processor, but the review below confirms a comment above saying that you should get 128 Gb because of the space taken by programs. From your comments above, I wonder if the Atom would cope with Logos?
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/426130/20130121/acer-iconia-w700-review.htm
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Asus-Transformer-Pad-Infinity-TF700T-Tablet-MID.78316.0.html
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-12-26/news/36008071_1_tablet-dual-cameras-usb-port
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I have a Acer W700-6465 that has 128gb hard drive and 4gb of ram. I have L5 Bronze with the minimal cross grade and 50+ other books I have purchased separately over the years. Selecting text with the touch screen is impossible so highlighting and copying text is difficult unless you have a mouse or touchpad. Scrolling is also a challenge in some of the reference windows but the main bible and commentary windows you can scroll by swiping. For the most part I love Logos on my windows 8 pro tablet. Windows 8 seems to be a lot quicker than 7 was. I have an i7 desktop with 8gb of ram running windows 7 that cannot keep up with the tablet running Windows 8. I do have a Bluetooth touchpad I can use when I want to select text and it works great.
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Thanks for letting us know David.
It sounds like the stylus provided with the Samsung ATIV Smart PC Pro would be very useful for highlighting text. How do we find out if Logos can cope with a stylus (what they call the S Pen)?
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I have a Samsung Ativ Smart PC Pro 700t with the i5 chip running at 1.7Ghz, 4Gb of RAM, and a 128Gb solid state drive. The machine has an 11.6" 1920x1080 screen. I have installed Logos 5 Portfolio plus extra books (roughly 5,500 resources!), and Logos runs extremely well. I run the machine as a standalone tablet or with the included keyboard, and both work well. In addition, I have installed Microsoft Office, Adobe Acrobat Professional and Photoshop CS6, CorelDraw X6, Microsoft Expression, Project and Visio. I still have over 30Gb left. In my humble opinion, this tablet is the one to get!
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Does the stylus work well for selecting and highlighting? I asked our Logos Tech team, and they hadn't had an opportunity to play with one yet.
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The stylus is very precise. You're probably aware that it is very thin, unlike say a Kindle stylus, and it has the precision of a graphics tablet. Highlighting and selecting are a breeze. Another cool thing about the stylus is that a dot appears on the screen as you approach the screen before making contact. This is great for making sure you touch the screen in the right spot. The dot that appears on the screen prior to contact also acts like hovering the mouse. So, for example, if you position the dot over a word, without touching the screen, the morphology of the word pops up!
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From a quick look at the Process Explorer utility from sysinternals.com (free utility: run it as administrator, right-click logos.exe and select properties for detailed monitoring) it doesn't look like Logos itself puts that much demand on memory. Much of that demand will probably come from Windows itself and .NET. I wonder how much Windows 8 itself uses and how much paging is necessary in 4GB RAM. Paging out to disk will be extremely fast on an SSD, so you won't see the big slowdown you would on a HDD when memory is swapped from memory to disk, and most of that will likely be libraries so there shouldn't be too much writing going on to wear out the SSD. I think. Has anyone done any detailed measurements on running Logos 5 on Windows 8 on 4GB RAM and an SSD?
This is starting to sound like an attractive option since Logos took all my money and I can no longer afford the hybrid tablet that I wanted.
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G'day Steve,
What sort of tasks do you use the tablet for? I am still studying at Bible College, and thought this would help to get through all the reading(!), but also enable me to have the full version of Logos ready, while the keyboard would enable note taking in lectures. Could I also use it to preach from, and connect to a data projector for a Powerpoint presentation?
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My primary use of the tablet is reading and Bible study (using Logos), mainly when I'm not at my desk. I have also just returned from MP Seminars' Camp Logos 1 where I used the tablet/keyboard combination exclusively. I also use it on the road. It works great on planes, and I now finally have a really portable device which competently replaces my desk machine (it weighs less than 2lbs, and has all my regular software installed). It has a mini HDMI port so it should work great for Powerpoint presentations, but I have not tried this yet. I plan to give it a whirl tomorrow when I return to the office. The other really cool thing is the SSD drive. Windows 8 boots up in a New York second, and the machine is at least as fast at running Logos 5 as my desk machine running Windows 7 with an i7 processor and 8Gb of RAM.
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Sounds great Steve!
Just out of interest, what is the conversion rate between a New York Second and The Great Aussie Long Weekend?
[:D]
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Don't blink, because you'll miss the New York Second ...
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I would love to get this configuration buts its over 1K. What would you or anyone suggest in say the under $600 and praying I can find it cheaper on Ebay category please?
Joshua in RI
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Is the Ativ 500 dramatically different and not as good please?
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I was very impressed with the ATIV 500, but then read David's post above which suggested that 64Gb wouldn't be enough, then Michael's post above warned that an i5 processor would be the minimum he would recommend. Like you, I find the expense to be hard to come at.
Hopefully someone else has tried running Logos 5 with an Atom processor, and can save us some money?!
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For those who cannot afford the current high prices for a Windows 8 Pro tablet with at least 128GB SSD then I would suggest WAIT !!!!
These tablets ae very new and the latest and greatest in the electronic world. As more models become available from different manufacturers and as the competition heats up and technology advances even further, we can expect dramatic price drops fror what is effectively minimum Logos 5 tablet technology.
However if you want to stay on the leading edge and want even more in a tablet than they can currently do, then you may always find yourself wanting a new machine costing $1200 or so...
Be patient, the price of a Windows Pro tablet capable of running Logos 5 effectively will come down dramatically over not too long a timeframe...... the majority of the market, cannot afford the $1200 price tags but the demand will rise ten fold or more when the price drops to $600 or less....
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Dd this 700t just come out recently?
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Late last year, I believe early November.
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I have been looking around and have decided to do what never comes easy for me....wait.
I will check back in a few weeks or next month and see what develops. In the interim...I need to be more obsessed with prayer, The Bible, and Jesus rather than fleeting, superfluous technology.
Joshua
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I would humbly suggest a good blend of the windows 8 tablet may have been recently forged by Asus dubbed the ASUS Taichi. It seems to not only run a full windows 8 but as a convertable laptop/tablet it also has a 256 GB SSD which will help with both speed & capacity concerns initially.
Still, I'd use a USB stick for windows' readyboost for better performance when Logos is doing hard data crunching. I'm thinking of getting the ASUS taichi for hosting my Logos 5 before my possible MOB coming up (and no funds or equipment will be forthcoming from the battalion).
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Mr. Crow, I pray your computer works in the field (and that you and the men/women you share it with are blessed as well). I looked at the Taichi but its over $800. Too steep for me. God bless you. Lead On King Jesus!
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I have just purchased the ATIV Pro 700t having listen to the reviews on this forum. I have downloaded my portfolio, I want to report that Logos absolutely works well on this pc tablet. I am very pleased with the speed and fluidity. If one can afford it, it is a tremendous investment. I had been looking for a tablet that could run full version logos along side other full version programs like Microsoft Office, and this was the answer to that prayer.
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Thanks for letting us know Orpheus.
David, your advice is good, but like Joshua said, it is hard to wait! I'm hoping that the release of the Surface Pro might help bring down prices in the next month or two.
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I purchased the Asus VivoTab 64GB from Best Buy. Runs Win8 (NOT RT), 1.6 GHz dual core Atom processor and 2GB RAM. The Win8 apps were super smooth and the screen was excellent. Loaded Logos 5 with no problems and then the problems started:
- Took 30 seconds to load
- Cannot use the touch screen to select, cut or paste (could with a mouse though)
- constantly hung with "App not responding" warning. This was undoubtedly due to the low RAM and prcoessor. when it did work, it was unbearably slow, if it worked at all.
- The screen was way to crowded with my normal 5 section layout that I use on my PC.
Took it back. Totally unusable for Logos 5. Bought an iPad4 - good, but no desktop or laptop replacement.
Hope that this helps someone.
Richard.
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Very helpful thanks Richard.
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Wow...that bad?[*-)]
I wonder if God would laugh if we prayed He might provide a decent Windows Tablet that runs all of Logos on it efficiently and effectively - to HIS glory.
Every other Ipad or Tablet combo just seems like glorified ereaders and I want to Glorify God by having all my tools with me - mobile and ready without having to startup my heavy cumbersome laptop....oh well.
Your review was helpful, thanks. I must wait and be thankful for what I do have. A Toshiba and a very large screen for now. Thank You God for those tools and for Logos which I have yet to master.
Blessings,
Joshua
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Hi Joshua,
Please see my previous post earlier in this thread on the Samsung Ativ Smart PC Pro 700t. This tablet is perfect for for running Logos 5, and any other Windows software for that matter.
Best,
Steve
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The key is to get a tablet with an i5 processor. My Acer W700 runs Logos and all other windows programs great with some limitations. I do need a Bluetooth keyboard to select text and highlight. When I do not have a keyboard with me I make notes in OneNote and catch up when I get back to my keyboard. I rarely have to do this. My Windows 8 tablet is way more useful than any other mobile device I have ever owned. If you really need to run Logos on a potable device do not be afraid of one of the i5 tablets.
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Agreed. My Samsung 700t also has an i5 processor. The included S pen allows highlighting and text correction sans keyboard, and the onscreen keyboard is great for notes. There is a slot at the back of the tablet that holds the pen when not in use. The tablet also comes with a keyboard which the tablet plugs into yielding what looks and feels like a laptop.
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Steve, how hot does your tablet get? The Acer has fans and stays cool but we have a Surface Pro and it can get quite warm.
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Hi David,
The Samsung also has a fan. Very cool, so to speak!
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Steve, Thanks for the info.
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Steve,
Forgive me for a question that I am sure you have already answered, but I am about to hit the button on purchasing the Samsung. In standalone tablet mode, without the keyboard, you can navigate Logos 5, select and copy text, select the search boxes, enter text - infact do everything you need to do? My one experience with a Win8 Tablet was entertaining, but not successful when it came to running Logos. You needed either a keyboard or a mouse. I suppose the difference with the Samsung is that it has a digitizer on the screen and an "active stylus".
Many thanks,
Richard.
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Suggest that BEFORE you hit the "buy" button you check out the Samsung web site and make sure you get the 700T model you want and expect to get if not buying directly from Samsung. There seem to be several different 700T models with various differences.
For example, make sure you are getting a Windows 8 model as there are severel Windows 7 models of Samsung tablet still around
XE700T1C
XE700T1A-A03US
XE700T1C-A04US
XE700T1A-A01US
XE700T1A-A09US
XE700T1A-A05US
XE700T1A-H01US
XE700T1A-A06US
While all will probably work reasonably well with Logos 5, the XE700T1A models tend to be Slate type running Windows 7 and the 1C are the Windows 8 models. Unless you have and intend to maintain only a SMALL library, make sure the one you are getting has 128GB SSD (Because teh ones with 64GB have only around 29GB for user installed software and data because (i) the operating system takes up space, (ii) the recovery partition takes up space, and make sure the one you are getting has an i5 processor. The above are the 700T models listed on the Samsung web site, there may be additional models configured more cheaply (lower specifications) made as "exclusives" for certain of the larger electronic chains.
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Hi Richard,
Sorry for the delay in responding. I'm in California, and it's my day off ... Anyway, to answer your question, the stylus that comes with the 700t is an active stylus. With Logos open, as you approach the screen, without touching it, a small dot appears enabling you to position the pen on the screen with great accuracy (sort of like a laser sight). Once contact has been made, you can do several things. For example, you can hold the stylus down on the screen, and it pops up the right mouse menu. Alternatively, you can drag the stylus across a word or phrase, which results in selecting the text. Single tapping on a program icon, or a menu, opens the program or menu. So, sans attached keyboard, you have full finctionality. There is a keyboard icon on the task bar, and tapping this brings up an onscreen keyboard wihich fills about half the screen. As this tablet is 11.6 inches across the diagonal, this is very large, and you can type pretty normally on it. Even the numbers are arranged in the standard cluster off to the right. You can also usefully make the keyboard go away at any time by tapping the X in the upper right corner, like any other window.
The external keyboard that comes with the device is very well made, comes with a mouse touch pad, and doubles as a docking station. It also contains 2 USB2 ports, and you can power the tablet through the keyboard if you wish. Once attached, the whole thing looks and behaves like a high-end laptop. It really is the best of both worlds!
Now to the model I have. It is the Samsung ATIV XE700T1C-A1US Smart PC Pro 700T. It has the full version of Windows 8, i5 processor running at 1.7Ghz, 4Gb of RAM, and the 128Gb solid state drive. I bought it from Amazon because I am a prime member which means I get free 2-day shipping, and no haggle returns. The machine runs Logos 5 faster than my "real" laptop which has an i7 processor, 8Gb of RAM, and a 1Tb hard drive. Being solid state, the tablet boots up in a couple of seconds, even from a complete shutdown. Indexing on Logos 5 is a whole lot quicker than on the laptop with the conventional drive. Searching is also very fast once indexing is complete, thanks also to the SSD.
To complete the package, I added a 64Gb microSD card, and a bluetooth mouse for when I am using it as a laptop. I could not find cool leather cases for it yet, so I bought the 500t version (for $16 on Amazon), and it works fine except tha the rear facing camera won't work with the case on because the hole is in the wrong place. There will hopefully be a 700t version out soon. Finally, as well as running Logos great (which is what I really bought it for), it also runs the following programs really well: Office 2010 including Project, Visio, and Expression Web, Photoshop CS6, Acrobat Pro XI, and CorelDRAW X6. There are some heavy hitters in there, and the tablet has not missed a beat.
In short, this is the machine I have been waiting for. I can finally leave the luggable computer at home, and just take this one, with its 1.8lb weight, on the road. Hope this helps.
Best,
Steve
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Great posts. A real blessing thanks
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Steve and David,
Many thanks for all of your help. I checked the product numbers with the ones that you detailed David, and with Steve's, and hit the buy button on Amazon. So, two or three days and it should arrive. I am looking forward to its arrival. Of course I am looking to sell everything in sight to fill the empty coffers.
Your personal experiences were such a great help to me. I will report back to everyone with my experiences.
God bless,
Richard
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So then...
From what I'm hearing there seems to be not much 'slowness' issues with using Logos 5 on full Windows 8 tablet/notebooks that only have 4 GB of RAM? Does utilizing an SSD really seem to make the difference?
I ask because I thought even Win 7 recommended 8 GB of RAM for 64bit and it seems fairly incredible that a tablet/notebook hybrid performs admirably for a Logos5 medium-higher end user without any speed bumps. I'm wondering if I don't need to wait for some 8GB models later (and I'm on a time-frame before deployment...so I'm trying to gauge what is best or if to wait) or not. Thanks for the detailed and thoughtful replies, again.
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Sean, I am running Logos 5 at the moment on a Toshiba Satellite laptop. It is running a Pentium B960 processor at 2.2Ghz (dual core) with 4GB of RAM. The speed is totally acceptable. It take probably 20 seconds to load, but once in it is responsive. Never had it hang and resource are pulled up with maybe only a 1 or 2 second delay. I have the basic Verbum package with additional resources. Now, if Logos 5 needs to index, then it is best to wait before using Logos to do any reading or research. The indexing really does slow things down.
I am also running Logos on my desktop at 1.8Ghz dual core pentium (5 years old!!) with 4 GB of RAM and similar results to the laptop.
EDIT: Both of the above PCs are running with an SSD drive. Yes, it really does speed things up considerably. It makes things acceptable, though not snappy. Without it, it is slow, but still adequate. The SSD drive does make a considerable difference.
Hope that helps.
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Sean,
I have the Bronze package plus the minimal cross grade which is tiny compared to a lot of users of Logos. I have 700 books and the install was around 5gb. My tablet loads Logos in 10-13 seconds. I searched God, Jesus, and Baptism in all text, entire library and it took 3 seconds for each search. I regularly have 5 windows open with 5 bibles open in one window and 3-4 commentaries / encyclopedias open in the second window with both windows linked and as I scroll there is no delay.
I have a i7AMD with 16gb of ram for a media pc running windows 7 and it loads and searches slower than my tablet. When I bought the tablet I hoped it would do a decent job with Logos and I have been pleasantly surprised with how well it does everything.
Make sure you get an i5 processor with minimum 128gb ssd. The models with digitizer pen is a plus. The Acer W700 does not have it but the battery life is great and you can find mini Bluetooth keyboards to help with selecting text and highlighting if you do not want to spend the extra $300 for the digitizer tablets. If money is not an issue I would get 700t with the pen for convenience.
Hope this helps
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