Windows 8 tablet

Logos 5 will run on Surface Pro to be released in 2013.

Orpheus ... if you're question speaks to Logos5 (on the Windows 8 Surface), there's no comparison. iPad doesn't run Logos5 (instead, the smaller iOS version).

But our friend from Australia has cautioned that we don't know how powerful the Surface will be with Logos5. It might be pretty 'sticky'.

 If your question is the smaller Windows 8 (Arm processor) vs the iPad, I'm sure Alabama will like to comment.

You will need to avoid the currently available MS Surface which does not run the full version of Windows 8 (but a cut down version called Windows RT which will never be able to run Logos 5, but has a specially cut down Logos Bible app that you can use as a reader).

Be careful also which version of the MS Surface with Windows 8 Pro you get, as you could agan get stuck if you have more than a few Logos books.

http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-CA/surface-with-windows-8-pro/home

You will note that the Windows 8 Pro Surface will come in two versions, one with 64GB and one with 128 GB.

Remember that you not only need enough space for your current Logos resources AND the ones you will likely acquire during the life of the Surface, but you also need enough room on the Surface to be able to index (and sometime re-index) them.  Also beware of a little lightly grayed note 3 at the bottom of the page giving details of the Microsoft Surface:

System software uses significant storage space; your storage capacity will be less. 

http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-CA/surface-with-windows-rt/help-me-choose

You get a lot less than 64GB available to run Logos and everything else you will want on your tablet: you may want to avoid tablets with Windows 8 Pro that have 64GB or less of memory available as it will likely restrict what you can install on your machine.  I would suggest 128GB minimum if you want to use Logos 5.  If you are willing to settle for a tablet running a cut down Logos app, you will probably still want at least 32GB memory on the tablet.  There are numerous "complaints" posted in these forums from people with smaller tablet memory wondering why they cannot fit all their books on their tablet (along with everything else they want on there).

Remember you have a considerable investment in Logos 5, it is high end software and it will need a high end tablet, especially if you have more than a few Logos resources to work with. A high end tablet is going to cost a LOT more than a low end tablet, probably in the $1000 to $1200 range. There is a lot of competition in the Tablet market and lots of manufacturers trying to sell cheaper versions of tablets which may sound promising but will be very limited in what they can do. We have NO REVIEWS on how Logos 5 works on a WINDOWS 8 PRO Surface Tablet with a lot of resources.  The specs sound promising, but we have yet to see how these will work out in practice.  A 10.6" 1920x1080 screen and 128GB memory should work if everything else is engineered properly. Full-size USB 3.0 and microSDXC card slot should allow reasonable expansion capability, Imagine what one of these might do with a 2TB micro SDXC !! But recognize that the cost of a 2TB SDXC card, once they become available, will probably start out being more than the cost of your high end tablet !!

Scott E. Mahle said:

I would because the iPad simply runs an app (a cut down version of Logos) while the Surface Pro will run the full program

But will it run Logos well enough to be worth using?  We just do not know since no one has seen one do it yet.  The processor sounds adequate,  However, how much ram will this tablet have?  Four GB would be minimum to run Logos in a usable form, and it would take at least 6 GB to run it well.  Will Surface Pro have that much ram? 

We are getting closer to a tablet that can run the full Logos program, but whether Surface Pro will be the one remains to be seen.  Indeed, it might require some re-writing of Logos before this is practical.  After all, Logos was not written to be run on any tablet, no matter what the specs.  And Logos may have to wait until the right tablet is out there, with enough market saturation, to make such rewriting practical. 

I hope Surface Pro can do the job, but I remain skeptical.  At present a well equipped laptop is still the only practical portable way to run Logos 5.  That along with my iPad for extended reading and portability is my best solution.  Maybe 2013 will bring a better answer.

Thanks David for that information.  I was just trying to look up how much ram the Surface pro will have.

The processor does seem okay for Logos, but the ram is bare minimum to run it, in my opinion.  And what about graphics?  This tablet is a step forward, but I fear that the Surface Pro will amount to a premium price for a sub-par performance with regard to Logos.  Don't know that is certain, but it is my best guess.  Will be anxious to find out.

The really good news is that we can expect tablets to get better and better.  So running full Logos well on one is definitely going to happen.  Some day.

I am looking for a tablet, and was leaning towards a Windows 8 tablet to ensure that I can use the full functionality of Logos, but they are very expensive compared to Android or Apple tablets. Is there a comparison anywhere of what you get/lose by using the Android operating system?

There are a few other options other than the Windows Surface Pro like the Samsung ATIV Smart PC Pro (XE700T1C-A01AU) (i5 processor) and the Acer ICONIA W700-53314G12as  (i5 processor). Has anyone had a play with something like this? The Samsung has a baby brother with an Atom processor, but the review below confirms a comment above saying that you should get 128 Gb because of the space taken by programs. From your comments above, I wonder if the Atom would cope with Logos?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/426130/20130121/acer-iconia-w700-review.htm

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Asus-Transformer-Pad-Infinity-TF700T-Tablet-MID.78316.0.html

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-12-26/news/36008071_1_tablet-dual-cameras-usb-port

Thanks for letting us know David.

It sounds like the stylus provided with the Samsung ATIV Smart PC Pro would be very useful for highlighting text. How do we find out if Logos can cope with a stylus (what they call the S Pen)?

I have a Samsung Ativ Smart PC Pro 700t with the i5 chip running at 1.7Ghz, 4Gb of RAM, and a 128Gb solid state drive.  The machine has an 11.6" 1920x1080 screen.  I have installed Logos 5 Portfolio plus extra books (roughly 5,500 resources!), and Logos runs extremely well.  I run the machine as a standalone tablet or with the included keyboard, and both work well.  In addition, I have installed Microsoft Office, Adobe Acrobat Professional and Photoshop CS6, CorelDraw X6, Microsoft Expression, Project and Visio.  I still have over 30Gb left.  In my humble opinion, this tablet is the one to get!

The stylus is very precise.  You're probably aware that it is very thin, unlike say a Kindle stylus, and it has the precision of a graphics tablet.  Highlighting and selecting are a breeze.  Another cool thing about the stylus is that a dot appears on the screen as you approach the screen before making contact.  This is great for making sure you touch the screen in the right spot.  The dot that appears on the screen prior to contact also acts like hovering the mouse.  So, for example, if you position the dot over a word, without touching the screen, the morphology of the word pops up!

G'day Steve,

What sort of tasks do you use the tablet for? I am still studying at Bible College, and thought this would help to get through all the reading(!), but also enable me to have the full version of Logos ready, while the keyboard would enable note taking in lectures. Could I also use it to preach from, and connect to a data projector for a Powerpoint presentation?

Sounds great Steve!

Just out of interest, what is the conversion rate between a New York Second and The Great Aussie Long Weekend?

[:D]

I would love to get this configuration buts its over 1K.  What would you or anyone suggest in say the under $600 and praying I can find it cheaper on Ebay category please?

Joshua in RI

I was very impressed with the ATIV 500, but then read David's post above which suggested that 64Gb wouldn't be enough, then Michael's post above warned that an i5 processor would be the minimum he would recommend. Like you, I find the expense to be hard to come at.

Hopefully someone else has tried running Logos 5 with an Atom processor, and can save us some money?!

I have been looking around and have decided to do what never comes easy for me....wait.

I will check back in a few weeks or next month and see what develops.  In the interim...I need to be more obsessed with prayer, The Bible, and Jesus rather than fleeting, superfluous technology.

Joshua

Mr. Crow, I pray your computer works in the field (and that you and the men/women you share it with are blessed as well).  I looked at the Taichi but its over $800.  Too steep for me.  God bless you.  Lead On King Jesus!

Thanks for letting us know Orpheus.

David, your advice is good, but like Joshua said, it is hard to wait! I'm hoping that the release of the Surface Pro might help bring down prices in the next month or two.

Very helpful thanks Richard.

Hi Joshua,

Please see my previous post earlier in this thread on the Samsung Ativ Smart PC Pro 700t.  This tablet is perfect for for running Logos 5, and any other Windows software for that matter.

Best,

Steve

Agreed.  My Samsung 700t also has an i5 processor.  The included S pen allows highlighting and text correction sans keyboard, and the onscreen keyboard is great for notes.  There is a slot at the back of the tablet that holds the pen when not in use.  The tablet also comes with a keyboard which the tablet plugs into yielding what looks and feels like a laptop.

Hi David,

The Samsung also has a fan.  Very cool, so to speak!

Steve,

Forgive me for a question that I am sure you have already answered, but I am about to hit the button on purchasing the Samsung. In standalone tablet mode, without the keyboard, you can navigate Logos 5, select and copy text, select the search boxes, enter text - infact do everything you need to do? My one experience with a Win8 Tablet was entertaining, but not successful when it came to running Logos. You needed either a keyboard or a mouse. I suppose the difference with the Samsung is that it has a digitizer on the screen and an "active stylus".

Many thanks,

Richard. 

Hi Richard,

Sorry for the delay in responding.  I'm in California, and it's my day off ...  Anyway, to answer your question, the stylus that comes with the 700t is an active stylus.  With Logos open, as you approach the screen, without touching it, a small dot appears enabling you to position the pen on the screen with great accuracy (sort of like a laser sight).  Once contact has been made, you can do several things.  For example, you can hold the stylus down on the screen, and it pops up the right mouse menu.  Alternatively, you can drag the stylus across a word or phrase, which results in selecting the text.  Single tapping on a program icon, or a menu, opens the program or menu.  So, sans attached keyboard, you have full finctionality.  There is a keyboard icon on the task bar, and tapping this brings up an onscreen keyboard wihich fills about half the screen.  As this tablet is 11.6 inches across the diagonal, this is very large, and you can type pretty normally on it.  Even the numbers are arranged in the standard cluster off to the right.  You can also usefully make the keyboard go away at any time by tapping the X in the upper right corner, like any other window.

The external keyboard that comes with the device is very well made, comes with a mouse touch pad, and doubles as a docking station.  It also contains 2 USB2 ports, and you can power the tablet through the keyboard if you wish.  Once attached, the whole thing looks and behaves like a high-end laptop.  It really is the best of both worlds!

Now to the model I have.  It is the Samsung ATIV XE700T1C-A1US Smart PC Pro 700T.  It has the full version of Windows 8, i5 processor running at 1.7Ghz, 4Gb of RAM, and the 128Gb solid state drive.  I bought it from Amazon because I am a prime member which means I get free 2-day shipping, and no haggle returns.  The machine runs Logos 5 faster than my "real" laptop which has an i7 processor, 8Gb of RAM, and a 1Tb hard drive.  Being solid state, the tablet boots up in a couple of seconds, even from a complete shutdown.  Indexing on Logos 5 is a whole lot quicker than on the laptop with the conventional drive.  Searching is also very fast once indexing is complete, thanks also to the SSD.

To complete the package, I added a 64Gb microSD card, and a bluetooth mouse for when I am using it as a laptop.  I could not find cool leather cases for it yet, so I bought the 500t version (for $16 on Amazon), and it works fine except tha the rear facing camera won't work with the case on because the hole is in the wrong place.  There will hopefully be a 700t version out soon.  Finally, as well as running Logos great (which is what I really bought it for), it also runs the following programs really well:  Office 2010 including Project, Visio, and Expression Web, Photoshop CS6, Acrobat Pro XI, and CorelDRAW X6.  There are some heavy hitters in there, and the tablet has not missed a beat.

In short, this is the machine I have been waiting for.  I can finally leave the luggable computer at home, and just take this one, with its 1.8lb weight, on the road.  Hope this helps.

Best,

Steve

Steve and David,

Many thanks for all of your help. I checked the product numbers with the ones that you detailed David, and with Steve's, and hit the buy button on Amazon. So, two or three days and it should arrive. I am looking forward to its arrival. Of course I am looking to sell everything in sight to fill the empty coffers.

Your personal experiences were such a great help to me. I will report back to everyone with my experiences.

God bless,

Richard 

Sean, I am running Logos 5 at the moment on a Toshiba Satellite laptop. It is running a Pentium B960 processor at 2.2Ghz (dual core) with 4GB of RAM. The speed is totally acceptable. It take probably 20 seconds to load, but once in it is responsive. Never had it hang and resource are pulled up with maybe only a 1 or 2 second delay. I have the basic Verbum package with additional resources. Now, if Logos 5 needs to index, then it is best to wait before using Logos to do any reading or research. The indexing really does slow things down.

I am also running Logos on my desktop at 1.8Ghz dual core pentium (5 years old!!) with 4 GB of RAM and similar results to the laptop. 

EDIT: Both of the above PCs are running with an SSD drive. Yes, it really does speed things up considerably. It makes things acceptable, though not snappy. Without it, it is slow, but still adequate. The SSD drive does make a considerable difference. 

Hope that helps.