LOGOS PLATFORM is being sold as Catholic
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This thread is so funny.
It wouldn't surprise me if 99% of the (religious) world is similar to Luigi. And 99% of (religious) history. And people think he's one of a kind. In your dreams.
My question's the same as Josh. Actually, I'm even more fascinated with the pastors.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Luigi Sam said:
Your posts are welcome
Well your posts aren't. Do us all a favor and go away and take your bigoted views with you.
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George Somsel said:Luigi Sam said:
This thread is to raise the issue that the Logos platform is being advertised and sold as Catholic. (Verbum latin for "the word")
Are you sure your name isn't Peter Celini? I have my suspicions since you seem to have a fixation on Catholic publications.
I've been wondering the same thing. These old tired arguments sound awfully familiar. But DMB is probably right...
DMB said:This thread is so funny.
It wouldn't surprise me if 99% of the (religious) world is similar to Luigi. And 99% of (religious) history. And people think he's one of a kind. In your dreams.
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Luigi Sam said:
2. you didn't address the quote that I gave about Mary
We do not need labels for any thing to do with "Mary" of Matthew 1:18
Most everyone knows [or should know] that some hold her in very high regard. She suffered a lot so that her son could bring us salvation.
Can you just imagine a seventy mile ride on a donkey while in your eighth month. And then delivering on the floor and not in a bed?
[[Am rebuilding my favorite PPB 1582 Bible and only have Matthew complete]]
If that bothers you then when you come across a resource that takes that stand then why not just skip that resource?
Long term use collections or hid it. The best person to select the resources you should use is you.
[[the text you refereed to has been addressed - Happy now?]]
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This is getting almost as interesting as the comments section on a Yahoo article. [^o)]
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Dear brothers and sisters in Christ, I would first like to apologize if my posts in the other thread came off as harsh or unfair. The need for specifically calling Logos Protestant seems pointless, I have read your arguments and still do not understand what you are hoping to gain by sticking a label on Logos base packages. As for the arguments being made as to the soteriological issues of Roman Catholics, no group can claim salvation of all it's members. The RC do have peculiar beliefs, but the teachings on Salvation in Christ is virtually identical today as you will find in the Lutheran or Anglican churches. Yes there are a small but vocal group of people who have unorthodox beliefs and I am sorry that some are raised in churches that refuse to teach the faith properly. Perhaps it has got worse since the last two Popes have done so much to undo the good of the Vatican II councils. That being said I honestly believe JP II and Ben. have a solid understanding of salvation in Christ, and have taught it and that can not be denied by anyone reading their works. I am very glad for everyone who has found the place where they feel closest to Christ and nourished by God's truth.
Love One Another11 the message—This is not a command, as in the old system of the law, but an announcement of something good. The message announced to us from God is that we are to love our brothers in God's family, who are fellow children of God.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother … Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous—Cain's murder of his brother was caused by envy and hatred of his brother's righteous life. Even then there was a clear division between God's children, those who chose to love and obey him, and Satan's children, those who deliberately defied and rejected God.
13 Marvel not—The surprise would be if the world did love Christians. the world—represented by Cain (3:12). hate you—as Cain hated his own brother enough to murder him. The world hates us because it can see the difference between our godly lives and its own evil.
14 we have passed from death unto life—This radical change is also described in Colossians 1:13. because we love the brethren—Our love does not cause us to have eternal life, but it is evidence that we already have it. We must each ask ourselves if we have this love; if we do, then we can be sure that we have eternal life, and that this will be publicly revealed when Christ comes. abideth in death—This is the condition we are all in by nature, and one who does not have love shows that he has not passed from death to life.
15 hateth—This is the same as "loveth not" (3:14); there is no middle ground. Love and hatred, light and darkness, life and death: if we have one, we necessarily lack the other. is a murderer—If we hate someone, we wish he were dead, and God sees the inner desire as equal to the outward act that would result from it. no murderer hath eternal life—This statement is in the present tense, not the future. He is spiritually dead now, for his hatred is proof that he does not have God's life.
16 he laid down his life for us—Christ's example shows us that real love involves self-sacrifice which, as 3:17-19 points out, must result in self-sacrificial actions. we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren—We do this by becoming truly concerned about the needs of our Christian brothers, and by unselfishly giving time, effort, prayer, and possessions to supply those needs. Such an attitude would result in actually dying for a brother if this were ever necessary. Our lives should not be more precious to us than God's own Son was to him.
17 whoso hath this world's good [life's possessions]—If we are to give our very lives for our brothers, we certainly should not hold back money or anything we own. seeth—not glancing casually, but deliberately beholding. shutteth up his bowels of compassion—in modern idiom, "closes his heart" (RSV). how dwelleth the love of God in him?—If we respond in love to God's love for us, we will put our neighbor's needs before our own comforts or luxuries.
18 Jerome said that even when John was very old and had to be carried to the church meetings, he continued to remind the believers of Christ's command: "My little children, love one another." The brothers grew tired of always hearing the same instruction, but John insisted that this was the command of the Lord (see John 13:34), and that if we could attain just this one thing, it would be enough.
19 hereby we know that we are of the truth—We will know that "the truth is the source from whence spring our thoughts, motives, and conduct" (Vine) when we love in deed and in reality. and shall assure our hearts—If we are demonstrating love by our actions, we will not constantly be wondering whether God will accept us. before him—We are always before the Lord, since he sees and knows our hearts. A confident assurance that God accepts us should be the ordinary, daily experience of the believer. --New Testament: Based on the Classic Commentary of Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown.Love is the only answer and it truly is enough.
Dan
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Dan Francis said:
The RC do have peculiar beliefs
It is to be hoped that the RC do have "peculiar beliefs" as the Baptists, the Methodists, etc also have peculiar beliefs.
peculiar (pɪˈkjuːlɪǝ) adj … 2 distinct from others; special … [c15: from Latin pecūliāris concerning private property, from pecūlium, literally: property in cattle, from pecus cattle] > peˈculiarly advCollins English Dictionary. 8th ed., Complete & unabridged ed. Glasgow: HarperCollins, 2006.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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MJ. Smith said:Josh said:
If you're someone who believes that Catholic tradition and doctrine can mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned with Logos promoting and advertising a product created solely to advance Catholic theology.
If you're someone who believes that Catholic Church of Christ tradition and doctrine can
mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned
with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance
Catholic Church of Christ theology.If you're someone who believes that Catholic Finnish Lutheran tradition and doctrine can
mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned
with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance
Catholic Finnish Lutheran theology.If you're someone who believes that Catholic Mennnonite tradition and doctrine can
mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned
with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance
Catholic Mennonite theology.If you're someone who believes that Catholic Congregational tradition and doctrine can
mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned
with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance
Catholic Congregational theology.If you're someone who believes that Catholic Presbyterian tradition and doctrine can
mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned
with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance
Catholic Presbyterian theology.If you're someone who believes that Catholic Episcopal tradition and doctrine can
mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned
with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance
Catholic Episcopal theology.If you're someone who believes that Catholic Assembly of God tradition and doctrine can
mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned
with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance
Catholic Assembly of God theology.If you're someone who believes that Catholic Methodist tradition and doctrine can
mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned
with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance
Catholic Methodist theology.If you're someone who believes that Catholic Unitarian tradition and doctrine can
mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned
with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance
Catholic Unitarian theology.If you're someone who believes that Catholic Quaker tradition and doctrine can
mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned
with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance
Catholic Quaker theology.If you're someone who believes that Catholic Jewish tradition and doctrine can
mislead a sinner into a "false salvation", then you should be concerned
with Logos promoting and advertising a product/resource created solely to advance
Catholic Jewish theology.I believe that covers my grandparents, parents, aunts & uncles, siblings and first cousins. Somehow, we can discuss religion with mutual respect. We don't need to wear name-tags with our denominational leanings. So please repeat for the 41, 000 denominations that Wikipedia refers to. I would hope it brings everyone a bit of humility.
From wikipedia: "Note: This is not a complete list, but aims to provide a
comprehensible overview of the diversity among denominations of
Christianity. As there are reported to be approximately 41,000 Christian
denominations,
many of which cannot be verified to be significant, only those
denominations with Wikipedia articles will be listed in order to ensure
that all entries on this list are notable and verifiable."PS.
Josh said:a product created solely to advance Catholic theology.
Correction: the product advances individual Catholics' Bible study which is quite a different matter - one that all people who believe the Bible is the Word of God should support especially if they believe in sola scriptura as that should imply that any serious and honest study will lead to the truth.
No, this is not the same thing.
Logos is NOT currently promoting and advertising a product solely to advance Church of Christ, Finnish Lutheran, Mennonite, Congregational, Presbyterian, Episcopal, Assembly of God, Methodist, Unitarian, Quaker, or Jewish theologies. But Logos IS certainly doing this with Catholic theology. This has been clearly demonstrated.
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Fr. Charles R. Matheny said:
and MJ knocks one out of the park right over mid field!!!
Yea MJ.
If you say so, please refer back to my reply to MJ's post...btw you look good in pink.
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The saddle shoes are right ... they were the only sturdy style available in a sufficiently narrow size.AND they came with a clicker toy.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
The saddle shoes are right ... they were the only sturdy style available in a sufficiently narrow size.AND they came with a clicker toy.
[:)]
I hope you know that I think you are a wonderful person and a huge help around the forums. Please do not misinterpret my comments in this thread as saying anything negative against you as a a person. We are all entitled to our own opinion - we just happen to disagree.
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Josh said:
No, this is not the same thing.
Logos is NOT currently promoting and advertising a product solely to advance Church of Christ, Finnish Lutheran, Mennonite, Congregational, Presbyterian, Episcopal, Assembly of God, Methodist, Unitarian, Quaker, or Jewish theologies. But Logos IS certainly doing this with Catholic theology. This has been clearly demonstrated.
Verbum has been out for what - three month or so? What other re branding packages will be released in the next ten years?
Have you considered that MAYBE it is an EXPERIMENT in fine tuning for a well defined group?
That if this Verbum EXPERIMENT works that MAYBE there will be other fine tuning for other well defined groups???????
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Josh said:
Logos is NOT currently promoting and advertising a product solely to advance Church of Christ, Finnish Lutheran, Mennonite, Congregational, Presbyterian, Episcopal, Assembly of God, Methodist, Unitarian, Quaker, or Jewish theologies. But Logos IS certainly doing this with Catholic theology. This has been clearly demonstrated.
"clearly demonstrated"? Don't tell me you actually believe Logos is proselytizing for the Catholic Church! Logos is doing nothing more than selling books that are related to Bible study & theology.Maybe if we "Protestants" would get busy & surpass the Catholics in numbers we would see more of "our" works getting published. Another thing to be thankful for is; we did not have to wait for 20 years before Logos got around to publishing Luther, Spurgeon, the Church of God Digital Library Collections, or even Stone-Campbell material.
The diatribes of Luigi Sam are so blatantly self-contradictory as to be disingenuous. First we heard complaints against Logos for not labeling Catholic doctrine as dangerous heresy. Then Luigi did a turnaround by complaining Logos did label Verbum as Catholic. C'mon! Which will it be? Label Catholic, or not? We all see through the false indictment. Whatever happened to "You will know they are Christians by their love for one another"? I would rather sup with Augustine, Aquinas & Fulton Sheen than some hate-monger with a picket sign on the side of the road.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Ken McGuire said:
My reply started with talking about how "non-denominational" is a myth. You have a standpoint. It shapes what you see. I then attempted to read one of the quotes you found objectionable within the context of Roman Catholic theology as I understand it, trying to show that it didn't quite say what you think it does as an example of how our standpoints shape what we see. I stated that I fail to see the problem in what Logos is doing in trying to provide tools for different communities. I concluded with a dream of something I WISH were somehow in some bible software programs, but I have never seen...
I suppose I should specifically say "invalid," about your concerns, but I thought it was obvious...
When you're posts have alot of spilling, grammer an usage mistackes it unfortunately maks it hard to sees what u mean. Is sees no reason to argue further.
Hi Ken:
- You didn't quote what it said.
- The First Sentence of page 64 is:
Mary benefited first of
all and uniquely from Christ's victory over sin: she was preserved
from all stain of original sin and by a special grace of God
committed no sin of any kind during her whole earthly life.[306] - "The Catechism of the Catholic Chruch in english: 1882.d_1997-08-15- SS Ioannes Paulus II - Catechismus Catholicae Ecclesiae - EN.doc
- I make no commentary on this because this Logos forum is not the place for it. I just let it speak for it self.
- I ask that you refrain from trying to change the purpose of this thread. If you want to discuss this, maybe one of us can find a forum where it is allowed?
Thanks.
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So, ST ... would you sup with Herod Antipas' tax-collectors (surely they didn't accept 'bribes'??). Or maybe the ladies of the evening ('sinners')? And judging from the accusations relative to 'the Baptists', you might even enjoy some wine too!
Of course I'm referring to ....
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Super Tramp said:
I would rather sup with Augustine, Aquinas & Fulton Sheen than some hate-monger with a picket sign on the side of the road.
Hear, hear !! [B]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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DMB said:
Of course I'm referring to .
Jesus partying with Zacchaeus? (I understand Augustine also partied heartily.)
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Hi David,
As the Original Post and second post says on this thread,
I dont have a problem with Logos selling "Catholic Mod Pack" with "Catholic Base Packages". (or any other denomination)
I do have a problem with the denomination-ally neutral Software Platform being re-badged and advertised as Catholic software.
Logos is a denomination-ally neutral software platform so it does not require renaming for any denomination. so yes sell "Logos with Catholic Mod Pack" but no, to renaming and advertising the whole platform as Catholic.
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Luigi Sam said:
Hi David,
As the Original Post and second post says on this thread,
I dont have a problem with Logos selling "Catholic Mod Pack" with "Catholic Base Packages". (or any other denomination)
I do have a problem with the denomination-ally neutral Software Platform being re-badged and advertised as Catholic software.
Logos is a denomination-ally neutral software platform so it does not require renaming for any denomination. so yes sell "Logos with Catholic Mod Pack" but no, to renaming and advertising the whole platform as Catholic.
You simply wish to raise a ruckus. Begone ! [:@]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Luigi Sam said:
Hi David,
As the Original Post and second post says on this thread,
I dont have a problem with Logos selling "Catholic Mod Pack" with "Catholic Base Packages". (or any other denomination)
I do have a problem with the denomination-ally neutral Software Platform being re-badged and advertised as Catholic software.
Logos is a denomination-ally neutral software platform so it does not require renaming for any denomination. so yes sell "Logos with Catholic Mod Pack" but no, to renaming and advertising the whole platform as Catholic.
I desire that you insist on these things, so that those who have come to believe in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works; these things are excellent and profitable to everyone. 9 But avoid stupid controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10 After a first and second admonition, have nothing more to do with anyone who causes divisions, 11 since you know that such a person is perverted and sinful, being self-condemned.Titus 3.8-11
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:Luigi Sam said:
Hi David,
As the Original Post and second post says on this thread,
I dont have a problem with Logos selling "Catholic Mod Pack" with "Catholic Base Packages". (or any other denomination)
I do have a problem with the denomination-ally neutral Software Platform being re-badged and advertised as Catholic software.
Logos is a denomination-ally neutral software platform so it does not require renaming for any denomination. so yes sell "Logos with Catholic Mod Pack" but no, to renaming and advertising the whole platform as Catholic.
You simply wish to raise a ruckus. Begone !
Stop feeding the troll, everyone.
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Super Tramp said:
The diatribes of Luigi Sam are so blatantly self-contradictory as to be disingenuous. First we heard complaints against Logos for not labeling Catholic doctrine as dangerous heresy. Then Luigi did a turnaround by complaining Logos did label Verbum as Catholic. C'mon! Which will it be? Label Catholic, or not? We all see through the false indictment. Whatever happened to "You will know they are Christians by their love for one another"? I would rather sup with Augustine, Aquinas & Fulton Sheen than some hate-monger with a picket sign on the side of the road.
Am I a hate-monger for being denomination-ally aware, and sensitive, and asking Logos to support denomination categories?
- If you read the progress of that Thread(s) you will notice I changed my stance to asking for denominational categories and search/report features which aid studying the good denominations and also support studying the chaff denominations.
Super Tramp said:Then Luigi did a turnaround by complaining Logos did label Verbum as Catholic. C'mon!
- If you read the first post in this thread, you will see that is not the subject.
- it seems you are being illogical here.
Super Tramp said:Whatever happened to "You will know they are Christians by their love for one another"?
ST,
honestly I dont know what to say to you. I am trying to raise my concerns as respectfully as possible. Yes I am concerned about the issue that started this thread, and yes I would like category features that support denomination categories.Yes most or all of us are denomination-ally sensitive. why not support features that aid in studying by denomination?
However Please keep your posts on the topic of the opening post. If you have concerns about denomination categories please post them in the Warning Label Request Thread where it has developed to consider issues like that.
Thanks
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George Somsel said:
You simply wish to raise a ruckus. Begone !
I am disappointed that you don't wish to actually comment on the opening post.
I am thinking of printing off this forum and distributing it so that others can judge if I am being unreasonable, and to show them what sort of tactics are being used to try to disrupt this thread.
Please everyone, remember that you are responsible for posting, and it might actually affect your how others see your denomination.
All I am asking is that we can be respectful and kind in our replies please.
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Can you say "sanctimonious?"
Luigi Sam said:I am thinking of printing off this forum and distributing it so that others can judge if I am being unreasonable, and to show them what sort of tactics are being used to try to disrupt this thread.
Please everyone, remember that you are responsible for posting, and it might actually affect your how others see your denomination.
Precisely what denomination do you represent? I may want to print off these threads to make a point of my own.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Zacchaeus, I had not thought about. He was a big (actually little) mystery.
I was aluding Jesus Matthew's buds (Mat 9.10 Mar 2.15 Luk 5.29). His appreciation for wine at Mat 11.10 Luk 7.34 in contrast to John the Baptist.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Super Tramp said:
to make a point of my own.
Hi ST,
Often while reading posts on the forum I ask my self, Is that the type of reasoning and effort that they would put in to reading and study of the Scripture.
I commend some of your posts, and yet others seem way off context - either you didn't read the original post, or you didn't follow the thread to see how it has progressed. These types of things are holding back some of your helpfullness and aid - either for or against a thread.
In all respect, I am not being sanctimonious but may I recommend a neuteral book source that would help you think things through in an orderly manner? One that I have read my self, and has nice tables to help people have good thinking patterns so that one get the most sense out of a passage. it is entitled "How to understand the Bible" by Knofel Staton. ISBN 0-87239-191-4
I realize this may not be recieved well at first, but please consider looking it up - it is only 94 pages.
again with all respect,
regards.
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Rosie Perera said:
Luigi, give it up. Why do you care? Why do you feel so personally injured by Logos's decision to market a particular rebranded version of their mainstay product for Catholics, who have been less reached by the product in the past than Protestants? You're sounding an awful lot like a 5-year-old child crying "It's no fair!" to his mother because his sibling got to play with his favorite toy, when there are still hundreds of other awesome toys to play with in the toy chest. Go enjoy using Logos and stop worrying about how it is sold to this or that market segment.
It is Logos's decision, they made it for business reasons, and they are not going to change it based on one individual's repetitive griping about it. Bob has already answered your concerns and he is not interested in changing in the ways you have suggested, or in responding to you again.
Bob Pritchett said:Verbum was created for practical reasons in response to feedback from both Catholic and protestant users. We may or may not segment other content based on market size and demand. But even these segments cross lines -- there are books that are included in both the Logos and Verbum base packages. And users of each who want resources sold with the other.
You are not being penalized or restricted or charged more in any way by using the main product called Logos, or by the newer Catholic customers having it branded Verbum for them.
So just give it a rest. You are sounding like a broken record, and we're all getting sick of this topic.
[Y] Thank you, Rosie.
Lenovo P72: Intel 8th Gen i7-8750H 6-core, 32GB RAM, 2TB HDD + 1TB Sata SSD, 17.3" FHD 1920x1080, NVIDIA Quadro P600 4GB, Win 10 Pro
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Luigi Sam said:
it is entitled "How to understand the Bible" by Knofel Staton. ISBN 0-87239-191-4
DFTT - but this is too good to miss. If I recall correctly, this is published by a division of Standard Publishing - as a child it was their publications we used for Sunday School, Vacation Bible School, Adult Sunday School (Outlook & The Christian Standard if my memory is correct) I still purchase their Standard Lessons in Logos. Super Tramp was brought up in a missionary home of the same family of churches (think Stone Campbell). My grandfather was a farmer/pastor in this tradition and my Dad, uncle and cousins served as deacons and elders.
May I suggest that a textbook on critical thinking or informal logic or even "how to listen" provides a more appropriate correction to the failure of communication in these threads .... a more advanced suggestion would be
Coalescent Argumentation by Michael A. Gilbert (how to argue to narrow differences rather than "win"); a solid introductory suggestion would be
Understanding Arguments: An Introduction to Informal Logic Walter Sinnott-Armstrong, Robert J. Fogelin. The latter is also the basis of an excellent Coursera introduction to critical thought.Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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