POLL: Would you buy the Zondervan Bible Reference Collection for $.....
Comments
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LOL...something just occurred to me. This thread might should (that's Southern for "might should") be asking two separate but related questions (or is that "related but separate"?):
1ne) "How much do you think the Zondervan collection is worth?" [Possible answer: "It's worth all the gold of Ophir!'] <---This is what made me laugh.
2wo) "How much would you spend to get the Zondervan collection? $1000?" [Possible answer: "I can't afford that."] <--- This is what made me stop laughing.
Point being, folks could be answering one question or the other without making a distinction. Theoretically, I think it's worth the $2000 dollars they want for it, I'll just never buy it at that price, or even slightly below that price. At $1000, it's a theoretical bargain, but not a practical one. At $500, I'm downloading the files to my computer. There's a spread there between $1000 and $500, but you will definitely lose me (and many others) somewhere along the way.
The question people who answer here should respond to is question 2wo...what price would put it in their Library?
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David Paul said:
The question people who answer here should respond to is question 2wo...what price would put it in their Library?
David, that was the whole point of this thread as understood by all those who responded to the original poll
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Damian McGrath said:
David, that was the whole point of this thread as understood by all those who responded to the original poll
Thanks Damian. For those who won't click back to the original POLL here it is again:
1) If you have not previously purchased these Zondervan titles; How much would YOU pay for the Zondervan Collection for an out right NEW purchase?
OR
2) If you have purchased some of these; Which titles? and How much would YOU pay to have the whole Zondervan Collection in Logos?(The second question asks how much of a discounted price you would pay considering you already bought some of these same titles in the Pradis format.)
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Since I already own all this stuff in Pradis (and I'm not exaggerating )and I already own Logos Platinum I would be willing to pay shipping and handling. Anything more than that is unreasonable. If they don't do this I want be purchasing anything else from Zondervan. Furthermore, I will use my influence (little it may be) to steer others from doing business with them.
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Richard Crampton said:
Since I already own all this stuff in Pradis (and I'm not exaggerating )and I already own Logos Platinum I would be willing to pay shipping and handling. Anything more than that is unreasonable.
In my case i own Logos portfolio & all things Pradis, so shipping & handling sounds right. However a deep real discount could persuade me to part with some money.
Ted
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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There are many resources I would like in the package, however the price tag is light years above my budget for Logos resources... For those of us who do not get a ministry expense for books, software, etc... These purchase can get a little tough...
One thought that would be interesting, though I am not sure that the agreement with Zondervan would allow it, would be to put the collection up on the Community Pricing page with something from a $250 to $2000 range or so.... That would be the ultimate "poll" and would give both Logos and Xondervan the best estimate at where the most sales and income would be realized...
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David Paul said:
Now we are buying these things for just ourselves! No one will ever convince me that the sales figures on these items hasn't increased by a double digit factor.
David Paul said:The point is, e-books (and particularly the historically low volume specialty e-books Logos markets) OUGHT to sell for 80-90% less than their so-called hard copy suggested retail price.
Alas, the electronic market is still smaller than the print market. (Amazing, isn't it?) So while production costs on electronic are similar to print (we don't pay for typesetting or paper, but we do much more extensive tagging and data preparation, and we have to "re-invent the printing press" every few years -- i.e. develop the software platform.)
Many of these multi-volume commentary sets sell just a few hundred electronic copies. Yes, we make money, and even a profit, but we're not yet representing double-digit sales increases for most titles. (Though apparently I'll never convince you of that. :-) )
The exception is big collections -- we do sell thousands of copies of things like Scholar's Library, Bible Study Library, etc. So there are economies of scale in those products that differ from the big commentary sets. And, low and behold, we offer exactly the discount you're asking for: books in our base collections are effectively at an 80-90% discount. (Usually 90%.) And when we release new base collections, we usually manage to squeeze a multi-volume commentary set into something.
We want to make as much content as possible available, so we're always trying to come up with creative ways to lower the cost by getting more people to purchase. That's why we try bundles, special collections, and community pricing. It's just hard to get people on board, even for a great deal. Practically speaking, it's easier to get 100 people to spend $1,000 than to get 1,000 to spend $100, or 10,000 to spend $10.
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Bob Pritchett said:
Alas, the electronic market is still smaller than the print market. (Amazing, isn't it?) So while production costs on electronic are similar to print (we don't pay for typesetting or paper, but we do much more extensive tagging and data preparation, and we have to "re-invent the printing press" every few years -- i.e. develop the software platform.)
Many of these multi-volume commentary sets sell just a few hundred electronic copies.
...
We want to make as much content as possible available, so we're always trying to come up with creative ways to lower the cost by getting more people to purchase. That's why we try bundles, special collections, and community pricing. It's just hard to get people on board, even for a great deal. Practically speaking, it's easier to get 100 people to spend $1,000 than to get 1,000 to spend $100, or 10,000 to spend $10.
Thanks for letting us know the reality, Bob.
How about a model like what The Teaching Company uses to get more people to buy their products (college-level courses on CD and DVD) at cheaper prices. Each course in their catalogue goes on a deep discount sales (like 70% off) at least once a year. That way they can produce a large quantity of them and pass the savings on to customers, because more people will buy them when they are on sale.
The 12 Days of Logos program will be an interesting experiment. You can see how much the purchase volumes go up when things are on sale.
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Zondervan already announced they were going to do an upgrade path to the new Logos version. I am hoping FREE. I, like many others, have the entire Pradis Library. As much as I would love them in Logos, I wouldn't pay more than $150 to transfer them from Pradis version to Logos version.
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Bob, thanks for setting the record straight with some facts.
I suggest Logos work with teacher/professors to set up custom packages for coursework. A professor sets their book list using Logos. A student enrolled in that seminary/college class can get all their books in Logos format for a discounted rate.
I would do it for any class I taught.
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Bob Pritchett said:
Many of these multi-volume commentary sets sell just a few hundred electronic copies.
I'm genuinely astonished. I snap these commentary sets up on pre-pub. That must make me one of your best customers! Apart from Anchor, I think I have all the major sets.
Regarding Pradis. Historically Zondervan have seen the software as part of the value of the electronic purchase, and have charged for upgrades. I seem to remember being asked for $35 to upgrade from Pradis 4 to Pradis 5 for my Expositors. That seemed reasonable to me, though I declined because I was too committed to Logos to be interested in paying anything for anything else.
For the sake of those who have invested lots in Pradis, I hope that Zondervan will cap or fix the upgrade price. It would seem very wrong to me for users to have to pay hundreds of dollars to 'upgrade' to Logos if they have thousands of dollars of worth of resources. A fixed price of $50-$100 would seem much fairer (and reward those who have been loyal to Zondervan).
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
I'm genuinely astonished. I snap these commentary sets up on pre-pub. That must make me one of your best customers! Apart from Anchor, I think I have all the major sets.
I know some say a commentary is a crutch to Bible study. I know relying on one man's opinions could result in being mislead. That is why I like having access to many different resources. If we diligently study and check "if these things be so" like the Bereans, we can enrich our study with quality resources.
And IMHO the resources in the Zondervan Collection are very good. I would not have purchased several in Pradis if I didn't think so. If I can affoprd to get those resources in Logos they will benefit me greatly. I just don't believe that would ever happen at the current $2K price. After all, have you seen the titles still to come on the Pre-pub page? There are better buys for the buck.
I would definitely buy this collection for $500. I would probably get it for $800. I might go to $1000 if nothing else is coming out of Pre-Pub at the same time. But $2000 with no credit for prior purchase? Don't think so.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Joe Miller said:
I suggest Logos work with teacher/professors to set up custom packages for coursework. A professor sets their book list using Logos. A student enrolled in that seminary/college class can get all their books in Logos format for a discounted rate.
I would do it for any class I taught.
They do this. If a professor at a seminary with a Logos-relationship requires a text or a base library, the professor gets a free copy of the resource. The academic department is very good at setting up these relationships.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
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I own Pradis Scholar's Library, NAC-NT and OT Prophets and EBC. Pradis Scholar's Library I bought for around $80.
Pradis Scholar includes:
Expositor's Bible Commentary: Abridged (2 Vols.)
New International Bible Commenary
New International Bible Dictionary
New International Dictionary of the Christian Church
New International Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties
Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible - 5 Volumes
New International Encyclopedia of Bible Words
How to Read the Bible for All It's Worth
And whole lot more titles including a Dictionary on Archaelogy I would list out all the resources on Pradis Scholar's Library but I have UNINSTALLED ALL PRADIS SOFTWARE OFF ALL FOUR OF MY COMPUTERS since having INVESTED thousands of dollars in Logos.
So as you can see, I have very little incentive to upgrade my Zondervan titles to Logos for anything more than $100. I just want to read the stuff and have basic search capabilities which I now have since I own them. However, my L4 Platinum, NICOT/NT, BST, ITC, JPS, Life Application Commentary, William Barclay's, WBC, Interpretation Commentary Series, Barnhouse, Ironside (...to name but a few because like some of you, I have A LOT MORE TITLES BUT JUST CAN'T REMEMBER...), and NIB (which I run from their terrible CD-ROM and search engine...which translates into "Jonely doesn't really use"...but I do find it excellent for the most part when I do...) serves as a good replacement for all my Zondervan products. If I really want Zondervan's NIDNTT and NIDOTTE, I would rather buy them now in Pradis format for less than $60 a piece and run them on a separate XP machine on one of my old computers indefinitely...along with my Pradis Scholar's, NAC-NT/OT Prophets, and EBC...than to shell out the big bucks for them in Logos. I paid less than a hundred bucks for each title in Pradis. I just want to read them and have basic search capabilities, why should I pay more especially when there are other less expensive (or more expensive) titles in Logos that are arguably comparable if not better than what is currently offered by Zondervan? For example, for $2,000, and since I already own about half the titles in the 87 volume Zondervan/Logos package but in Pradis format, I rather get the Yale Anchor Bible Commentary...which I don't really need but really want. [8o|]
Note: There are many more titles...at least half...in Pradis Scholar Library that aren't duplicated in the 87 volume Zondervan/Logos package!
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I own these Z products (related to the 87 vol. package):
- EBC--Pradis and hard copy (hc) (not sure why i'd also value the abridged set on top of that)
- NIVACNT--Pradis and some hc's
- NIVACProphets--Pradis
- NIDNTT--Pradis and hc
- ZIBBCNT--Pradis
- and some individual titles as hc--fee/stuarts couple of books, halleys, etc
i put this on pre-pub for 2000, but I am cancelling. Not out of anger, but primarily for monetary reasons. But the "monetary reasons" are supported by several factors:
- our church is going thru severe financial times, I cannot in good conscience buy something at that price. Let alone that, I cannot even muster up the money for it. I am scrambling to replace about half of my income by next month in a SE Mich economy, so I can both stay at this church and not lose my house etc. I had been considering the timeshare--err, payment plan--for Portfolio, but had to back off that today, too.
- I have it on Pradis--mostly
- I think, upon reflection, that 2,000 is wayyyyy to much to spend, this economy notwithstanding. I like Z products, but much of what they offer duplicates sets i have. They are not must buys. I do agree with a growing groundswell: for 500 i'd do it few questions asked (but right now, even that would be impossible for me), for 800, maybe if the timing was right, for 1,000 . . . .probably not. Especially since there are other pre-pubs at better deals with material that actually expands the "type" of books and info I have in my library, not mere "add" to it (as Z would be for me).
- I like Z products. I am interested in some of the sets I don't have, (like the NIDOTTE), but seeing as they are not being offered at ANY pre-pub discount, I can wait till money flows again. Who knows when that will be.
I did not even know about "Pradis Scholars" etc. Or, if I did, I probably owned some of those products so it wasn't "worth it" for me.
Incidentally, Guthrie did a great job on the "hebrews" part of ZIBBCNT, I was thrilled to use it. But some of the other entries I have used since then (can't remember which off hand) were so-so.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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1 - $500 would be tempting, but anything above that is out of my budget.
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Well, one thing for sure, it is going to be interesting to see how Zondervan does in branching out into the digital market on other platforms. At this stage it feels like they're saying "ok, you can have our stuff in Libronix format, but at a price". If users don't buy into it on large scale, will they decide there is a lack of demand or will they consider that they need to relook at the the price points for their collections. For example, to buy the whole collection on pre-pub is not that much savings over buying individual sets. It's going to be very interesting to see how this plays out.
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For those people who decide to purchase the pre-publications, the release date have just been released - 4/5/2010
Time for some serious budgeting, and skip few more lunch :-)"And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free", John 8:32.
"你們必定認識真理，真理必定使你們自由", 約翰福音 8:3.0 -
The price has recently dropped by $200 to $1799.95. I guess Logos and Zondervan listened to us. It's not the $500 that many of us were wanting, but it's a change for the better anyway.
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In normal circumstances I would probably order some of these titles, though not the whole package, but these are not normal circumstances. I have just managed to afford the upgrade from Libronix 3 Scholars Gold to Logos 4 Scholars Platinum. I would love to add NIV Application, NICOT, NICNT to that, as I have a goodly number in hardback. I'm not fussed about anything else really.
For $2000 - [N]
For $1000 - [N]
For $500 - perhaps, but it's still a lot of money to me.
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I see a bit of improvement in this price drop, but not enough to affect my decision--it's still a bit steep in my view. What they are asking now is in the ball park of what I paid to upgrade to Portfolio (more actually), and I got hundreds of new titles in that. It isn't that I think the books themselves aren't worth what they are asking...theoretically they may be...I'm just not going to pay that much for them. Sure I would love to have the resources, but the cost is prohibitive. I stil think this Z collection would FLY off the shelves at $500 and they would generate more profit than they will going this route, but it's their merchandise to not sell. I might even consider buying at half this current PrePub price at a later date, but I frankly don't see that happening.
Oh well, I guess I won't be quoting Zondervan resources in any of my books. No biggie. I've got tons of resources in my Portfolio and in hardcopy to cull from...more than I will ever have time to fully read and use. But if things change, I will reconsider--I am buying...I've got near about $10K in PrePub orders in the pipe.
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I want the NIVAC commentaries, the Expositors Bible Commentary, Colin Brown's Dictionary of New Testament Theology. Indeed, I will buy these which come to a little more than $600 individually in pre-pub.
There are one or two others that I would like, but can live without.
So I guess that I would be willing to pay about $700 for the lot. Of course, they are worth more than that, but not to me.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
The make your own package at a certain % discount - with a minimum order - would make a lot of sense to me. Might be an experiment worth Logos' time in trying.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Not really. Over the years I have learned NOT to register a product unless it is required for functionality. I have a bunch of unregistered Zondervan product that is still is worthless towards a crossgrade to Logos format. Zondervan could have honored any never registered product towards crossgrades but they didn't.Rosie Perera said:I guess Logos and Zondervan listened to us. It's not the $500 that many of us were wanting, but it's a change for the better anyway.
I can give them all the blank cards & numbers but I suspect they have my mugshot on a dartboard in their break room.
You see, I got tired of software companies selling my name & demographics to others for money.Even now, I use trash email accounts for many "registrations" with creative spellings to track which so called "privacy policies" are not really honored.Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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I own the follow in Pradis:
EBC; NIDNTT; NIDOTT; Zondervan Illustrated Bible Backgrounds Commentary: New Testament and the NIV Application Commentary: New Testament. To be honest I can't see myself buying these for any price or at least for now. I have been a Logos user since 1993. I have to remind myself that I own Pradis and hit the "Alt-Tab" keys to go between programs. I also, not to upset anyone, have to ask myself what are they worth to me at any price in Logos format. Will I use them? or Do I find all I need from the TJL, Baker books, IVP Reference Books I own under Logos?
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I own some of it in print but I would love to have it as a part of Logos. I can not swing this price. It is about equal to how much I have invested in my library total (portfolio). Bring it down at least $1000 and I will place my order!
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Matthew C Jones said:
Not really. Over the years I have learned NOT to register a product unless it is required for functionality. I have a bunch of unregistered Zondervan product that is still is worthless towards a crossgrade to Logos format. Zondervan could have honored any never registered product towards crossgrades but they didn't.Rosie Perera said:I guess Logos and Zondervan listened to us. It's not the $500 that many of us were wanting, but it's a change for the better anyway.
I can give them all the blank cards & numbers but I suspect they have my mugshot on a dartboard in their break room.
You see, I got tired of software companies selling my name & demographics to others for money.Even now, I use trash email accounts for many "registrations" with creative spellings to track which so called "privacy policies" are not really honored.I never register software either. I didn't say anything about registering. I meant that perhaps all the voices here on this forum about how the price was too high got conveyed to Zondervan by the Logos folks and they relented and lowered it a teeny bit. Not enough, but all I meant was that perhaps they were listening....somewhat. (Also my comment didn't apply to people trying to crossgrade to this bundle from Pradis; I never had Pradis before, so for me and others like me we're looking at what was a $2000 price tag, and now it's $1800, and having to weigh whether that's worth it to us.)
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Matthew C Jones said:
Not really. Over the years I have learned NOT to register a product unless it is required for functionality. I have a bunch of unregistered Zondervan product that is still is worthless towards a crossgrade to Logos format. Zondervan could have honored any never registered product towards crossgrades but they didn't.Rosie Perera said:I guess Logos and Zondervan listened to us. It's not the $500 that many of us were wanting, but it's a change for the better anyway.
I can give them all the blank cards & numbers but I suspect they have my mugshot on a dartboard in their break room.
You see, I got tired of software companies selling my name & demographics to others for money.Even now, I use trash email accounts for many "registrations" with creative spellings to track which so called "privacy policies" are not really honored.I did register my Pradis software but Logos said I was not in the database that Zondervan sent (not Logos fault on this). Customer Service at Zondervan said that they had a number of Pradis users that somehow were left out of the database. They asked for some basic information about the purchase and said that they were advising Logos to provide the discounts to the people who had contacted them. They responded quickly to my request for help and were very courteous. You might get a better response than you expect form Zondervan if you give them a call.
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This whole Zondervan thing has left a bad taste in my mouth. I ordered the prepub at $2000 and now that they have dropped it a whopping $200 I am canceling my order. If they think dropping the price that little will increase their profits I say good luck.
I would pay $500
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Bought the Expositors Pre-pub set for $129 and change. That's all I wanted (or really need).
Elder/Pastor, Hope Now Bible Church, Fresno CA
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