Windows Phone 8 App
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After I got new OS update Windows Phone 8.1 to my Nokia Lumia 820 I am sure I am not alone seeing how great advance that platform has experienced recently. I am sure the market share will grow rapidly. Logos will notice, I hope.
Bohuslav
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Having had a Windows phone now for about 6 months, I know I won't be going back to an Android phone, my previous phone experience. I've never had a IPhone, but had an Ipad and gave it to my son so I could have a new surface, and couldn't be happier. I do think Logos is missing the boat on the windows ecosystem, especially in the mobile apps. I just see a growing market as people try it out. It's begun to make an impact on my investment in Logos resources. I have some pre-pubs I've kept but recently decided not to go for the Logos Lutheran base packages... if I saw any movement toward support for the windows ecosystem in the mobile side of things, (and not just Biblia in a browser), then I'd be more inclined to continue to invest in resources. I love Logos and have used it since 95, but I'm disappointed in their decision not to include windows mobile options. I even suggested in one thread somewhere that they consider making an app through community development offerings... I'd support that. Ah well... I still wait... and am glad to see an uptick in requests, which confirms my suspicion that Windows phone and apps are growing.
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Logos is looking for more US WP users. I see that market share figures from Kantar show that WP has reached 5.3. I suspect Logos won't seriously consider developing an app until it reaches double figures. The best way to bring forward a Logos app is to enthusiastically promote Windows Phones to your friends and relatives. So far, I've converted my wife and my in-laws...
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...(and not just Biblia in a browser),...
The trouble with Biblia is that expensive data charges are incurred if used to look something up while listening to a sermon in Church. I haven't been able to convince our church to offer free WiFi yet. Though I think it will be inevitable that this will be a feature of the modern church.
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I'd like to chime in that I would also absolutely LOVE to see a Logos App for Windows Phone. With the new Universal Apps approach(http://www.pcworld.com/article/2142706/universal-apps-herald-cheaper-windows-store-prices.html ) as well as Microsoft's eagerness to work with mobile developers I'm really hoping that Logos will decide to go for it! Please don't look just at the Window Phone marketshare in this decision-making process but at how a Universal App would work on Windows Phone and on Windows 8/8.1 PCs. Microsoft has even been willing to fund some companies to help grow the ecosystem even more so that could be a possibility, and/or asking for the Logos community to help fund the project. I'd certainly be willing to chip in on a Kickstarter type funding campaign. Please Logos, let's make this dream a reality!!
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I'd like to chime in that I would also absolutely LOVE to see a Logos App for Windows Phone. With the new Universal Apps approach(http://www.pcworld.com/article/2142706/universal-apps-herald-cheaper-windows-store-prices.html ) as well as Microsoft's eagerness to work with mobile developers I'm really hoping that Logos will decide to go for it! Please don't look just at the Window Phone marketshare in this decision-making process but at how a Universal App would work on Windows Phone and on Windows 8/8.1 PCs. Microsoft has even been willing to fund some companies to help grow the ecosystem even more so that could be a possibility, and/or asking for the Logos community to help fund the project. I'd certainly be willing to chip in on a Kickstarter type funding campaign. Please Logos, let's make this dream a reality!!
[Y]
Bohuslav
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[Y]
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[Y] I'd like to help some as well.
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I would love to have a Windows Phone 8 app. and a Surface RT app. Bring it on.
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Read a rumor yesterday regarding a new Windows Phone 8. Rumor has it, it will an HTC One W8. If it's spec'd similar to the M8 (Snapdragon 801, 2gb ram, 16/32gb storage plus sd support upto 128gb) it'll be a beast of a phone - absolutely perfect for Logos (hey Logos! hint, hint).
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I know 4 people including me with Windows Phone's who would like a Logos App, so I will give 4 thumbs up. One for each of us.
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Yes there are now more and more people waiting for Logos Bible App in Windows Phone...
I've now joined the club too
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@ Logos: There are a couple people in this forum who said they'd be willing to even help finance a Windows Phone app (and that willingness would certainly increase if it could be a universal app, thereby improving on the current WinRT app). Could'nt you calculate how much funding you would need so that a solid app at about the current android / iOS stage would become reasonable for you and then start something like "community pricing" for this app?
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I would be interested in community pricing for a WP 8 app also.
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There is always kickstarter too.
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Good idea.
Bohuslav
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@ Logos: There are a couple people in this forum who said they'd be willing to even help finance a Windows Phone app (and that willingness would certainly increase if it could be a universal app, thereby improving on the current WinRT app). Could'nt you calculate how much funding you would need so that a solid app at about the current android / iOS stage would become reasonable for you and then start something like "community pricing" for this app?
Ain't a half-bad idea at all. Lack of Logos on my W8 stuff is realistically the only thing that is keeping me on iPad at all, anymore. Otherwise, I'd probably upgrade to a Windows tablet and have more money for Logos books. I'd Community Price or Pre-Pub it if that were an option.
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Percentage of market share is not a particularly good benchmark to analyse, when you're talking about hundreds of millions of smartphone users. Even small percentages indicate millions of users. In Jan 2014, over 50 million people were using Windows Phone (and a significant number of that is WP8). The investment required to design an app would be relatively insignificant given such huge numbers of users. It's disappointing that Logos have not considered the basic maths of this. What's more disappointing is spending thousands of dollars on their library, only to discover that they're dragging their heals with app development. Please Logos, let's get on top of this.
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Thanks Adam. This is a good analysis of the realities we face as Windows users. I had to purchase a Surface Pro 2 rather than my preferred option of a much lighter Surface 2 just so I could run my Logos software (don't mention the appalling excuse for the Windows RT app). The only issues now relate to the fact that the software is not optimised for either the smaller form factor i.e.. Tablet, Ultrabook, or the touch screen interface. Both my principal devices are running Windows 8.1 and both are touch screen. On my little Android tablet I can highlight and make notes and change from day to night reading all using a touch interface and it's been that way for a couple of years. Wake up LOGOS and give me a touch enabled reading view that lets me highlight etc. on my laptop and Surface Pro 2. The other issue is of course that we still do not have any app for Windows Phone 8. Surely not everyone at LOGOS is so Apple orientated that they don't care about Windows.
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We are still evaluating the market share of Windows Phone 8 before committing (significant) resources to developing an app for it.
See Bob's post from a couple of months ago for additional info: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/63184/447539.aspx#447539
I have been seeing the same type responses from other app developers, but I feel it is the lack of quality apps being developed for Windows phones that is driving the market toward Android or IOS phones. After all, any phone can make calls and send texts - so the deciding factor in phone sales is apps, OS, and phone design/structure.
Each time I have had the opportunity to upgrade my phone I have checked to see if there is a Logos Bible app and if it is comparable to the Android/IOS ones. Logos app is the most important app on my phone other than messaging and calling. Each time I have had to pick an Android or IOS phone because I don't want to lose the ability of taking my bible and library everywhere I go. Plus that app saves me a lot of neck strain reading my bible in bed at night hahaha
I am ever so grateful for the Android/IOS Logos App - I pray one day Windows phones will have the same app. If it's sales that will push developers, then I'll be switching to a Windows phone next time around.........
God Bless
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The lack of Windows Apps for Logos, Faithlife etc is getting embarrassing not just for church leaders but to be blunt for Logos as well.
My family find ourselves buying devices we either don't like or want to use your facilities or we sit in church thinking why or why can I not do what those Apple and Android users do to aid their learning during the sermon and following through the bible passages that the pastor has kindly highlighted in his PowerPoint.
The crazy think is Logos started on the Windows platform ! Why then do you seem to hate Windows 8 Mobiles so much? They use HTML 5 and when Microsoft launches the new OS they will be literally the same OS at their desktop counterparts. Can you at least confirm that you will get this sorted for the launch of the next Windows OS launch e.g. Windows 10?
I know those who use Apple and Android like them but I prefer Windows every time. Please, please respect us Windows users who are finding ourselves signing of thousands of dollars of Logos and Proclaim annual expenditure and still don't have enough respect from the programmers to get Windows apps!
I have been listing suggestions for resolution on Proclaim and other solutions and if you take them up like the Windows App, then we will be happy to keep with Proclaim and Faithlife otherwise we need to consider alternative solutions or even to consider developing our own.0 -
Here's the reality: the Windows environment for mobile devices does not seem to be making significant market penetration. It appears market share for Windows phones actually declined in 2014 from 2013 (see http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp).
I have a Surface Pro, and I'd love to have an app other than the full desktop version on it (Bluestacks with the Android app doesn't appear to work on it). I'd also like to migrate from an iPhone to a Windows phone environment--but really, Logos is the main reason I still use an iPhone rather than a Windows phone (and why Android is the only other viable option for me in the smartphone world.)
I really can't see Faithlife investing much into such a tiny market share that does not seem to be growing. From a numbers standpoint, concentrating on the Android (first and foremost) and then the Apple environments makes the most sense.
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"Reality" - that argument may have held water until Universal Apps. Now that you can largely write the same app for Windows 8/8.1 and Windows Phone 8/8.1, there is plenty of market share (tens to hundreds of millions) that any justification not to release an app is long gone. At this point, it's unwillingness to revisit a business decision that may or may not have made sense at the time, but does not now.
Logos, it's time for an announcement.
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Let me pile on a little: we are not talking about something insignificant here. We're talking about ministering the word of God, sharing the Good News of salvation, the most significant task mankind ever received (that can only be done on this earth). We have invested our financial resources to fulfill this commission in a toolset that only works within its own system. I can buy books from any publisher I want and use the resources side-by-side, but digital resources are proprietary. We invested our ministry resources (stewardship, anyone?) in Logos. In return, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some support to be able to use it on a computing environment used by tens to hundreds of millions of users. We're not talking about some esoteric Linux distribution here. Even if Logos was going to make web services available so we can write our own app, that would be something. Yet, leaving us out to pasture for years is more than disappointing.
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Did Logos really check up on the iphone market penetration numbers when they first started development there? Or Android? Or even the original MAC/OS versions? No, they probably didn't... MAC was considered a dying platform -- MS rescued it by porting Office over. Logos continued to supporting the MAC through the entire fall in market share, etc. So there's clearly something else going on here other than market share. I'm not certain what it is, but from the outside, the "market share" excuse is wearing really thin. Let's turn the question around -- how much of the low market share of windows platforms is because play this game of, "it doesn't have market share." It's a self fulfilling prophecy. And it's time it stopped.
Russ
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Did Logos really check up on the iphone market penetration numbers when they first started development there? Or Android? Or even the original MAC/OS versions? No, they probably didn't... MAC was considered a dying platform -- MS rescued it by porting Office over. Logos continued to supporting the MAC through the entire fall in market share, etc. So there's clearly something else going on here other than market share.
To be fair, market share's been a pretty common mantra. Mac development began years later than PC development, and market share was always the reason given. Likewise for Android, whose Logos app wasn't released until 2011, nearly two years after the iOS app.
Let's turn the question around -- how much of the low market share of windows platforms is because play this game of, "it doesn't have market share." It's a self fulfilling prophecy. And it's time it stopped
I agree - but it's hardly Logos' responsibility to try and solve that problem.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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I really can't see Faithlife investing much into such a tiny market share that does not seem to be growing. From a numbers standpoint, concentrating on the Android (first and foremost) and then the Apple environments makes the most sense.
I'm not sure that there is much development investment involved. Porting over a Windows Phone version shouldn't be that much work since the language tools are very similar now and the big strategic decisions about design and what functionality should make it onto a mobile device have already been made through the Android/iOS experience. .
Maybe the bigger investment is on the post development maintenance side. After it has been developed there is a bigger maintenance and test workload required to ensure that the three mobile apps are kept up to date as each platform evolves.
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My family find ourselves buying devices we either don't like or want to use your facilities or we sit in church thinking why or why can I not do what those Apple and Android users do to aid their learning during the sermon and following through the bible passages that the pastor has kindly highlighted in his PowerPoint.
I wonder if Windows Phone users are keen enough to pay USD 10 for a Logos app. I for one would drop ten bucks for it in a heart beat. Now, that would mean if there were a thousand Logos users on WP, who did the same, then Logos would gain $10,000 in incremental revenue more than what they are getting from iOS and Android users who pay nothing at all.
Perhaps that is a better business case than just trying to argue that Logos should develop a WP mobile app for the sake of customer service.
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I really can't see Faithlife investing much into such a tiny market share that does not seem to be growing. From a numbers standpoint, concentrating on the Android (first and foremost) and then the Apple environments makes the most sense.
I'm not sure that there is much development investment involved. Porting over a Windows Phone version shouldn't be that much work since the language tools are very similar now and the big strategic decisions about design and what functionality should make it onto a mobile device have already been made through the Android/iOS experience. .
Maybe the bigger investment is on the post development maintenance side. After it has been developed there is a bigger maintenance and test workload required to ensure that the three mobile apps are kept up to date as each platform evolves.
You're probably right--post-development is probably more significant. It's a commitment to provide ongoing support, not just "let's write a program and then forget about it." Either way, though, it means FaithLife's resources (which are not infinite) would be pulled into supporting a platform with a small user base.
Perhaps the better solution would be to support biblia.com as a universal (cross-platform) application on the standard mobile web browsers. It's not a perfect solution, as it requires internet connectivity, but it could be a way to support the tiny market share of Windows Phone users. (And yes, it's a tiny market share...though it could change.)
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[quote]Either way, though, it means FaithLife's resources (which are not infinite) would be pulled into supporting a platform with a small user base.
HUMBUG.
There are tens of millions of Windows Phone users. That's plenty to support a development effort. An Universal App would eventually reach over a billion people since it also includes all regular Windows users. Granted, many haven't moved to Windows 8 or Windows 10 yet, but eventually they will (software obsolescence), and hundreds of millions already have. Mac is what is a small market share (less than a third of Windows 8/8.1 alone), and yet Logos is throwing serious money at it. Note that this is a separate platform that is incompatible with iOS or Windows, so it's a far greater effort than creating a universal app when you already have a Windows code base.
It's a management decision, and there are no market share numbers that support this decision, certainly since universal apps made Windows Phone and Windows a single platform. The market share argument is dead as a doornail. Note also that no one from Logos has made that argument in a while.
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