WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

SERIOUSLY??!??! (Why do I find myself asking that same thing so often lately?)

I am stunned and disheartened to near incapacity. I just watch the Logos TV commercial...and I was immediately met with a Louisville Slugger in the solar plexus in the form of a voice over that pronounces the name of the company with two omegas instead of two omicrons...i.e. with two long-O sounds instead of the "o in omlet" sound that is correct. I have always been pleasantly pleased with the fact that Logos always got this right when there are so many (especially here is the South where I'm from) who butcher the word with exaggerated long "Oh" sounds.

If the girl who answers the phones can get it right, why on earth can't Logos put together a TV commercial that does? Not only will this cause hundreds and possibly thousands of people to say the word incorrectly for the rest of their lives, it will also cause them to wonder to themselves when they call up, "Wow, I wonder why no one has told the poor receptionist the right way to pronounce the name of the company?" Infuriating and mind-boggling. [:@]

Logos HAS to fix this abomination before it gets beamed into homes and hamlets across the land.

It HAS to...

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Comments

Rosie Perera

Valid concern, but your subject line isn't likely to catch Logos's attention. Best to make subject lines direct and to-the-point.

It's not likely to get fixed in time, as it airs tonight (Sunday). But if you want fast attention to this, email Dan Pritchett directly, as he is Executive VP of Marketing, or tweet him @DanPritchett.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/474560#Comment_474560

I just sent out an email, but I don't twit, so feel free to call out the cavalry, the National Guard, SWAT, or whoever else can do something about this...

...mess.

Something else...I am pretty sure I've heard this same guy's voice on many other occasions in Logos promotionals, and if memory serves, he pronounced the name correctly in previous voice-overs. I don't know why this is happening now...especially given the circumstance of such a massive PUBLIC forum. Ugh.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/474563#Comment_474563

I was thinking they probably gave the script to an ad agency to make it and whoever it was didn't know how to pronounce the word correctly. You'd think it's the kind of thing they would give very clear instructions about, especially since it's the name of their company and the name of their flagship product.

But there are disagreements even within the ranks of Logos employees on how it should be pronounced:

Watch the first 1:15 of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEBaM9nN2CU

Even Bob (whom I usually hear pronounce it with the omicron pronunciation) pronounces it with the omega pronunciation in that clip, and there is no consensus.

So I doubt they will care to change how the ad is done even if they do get your message in time. I pronounced it the omega way before I knew any better from Gree, and 99% of viewers will not have taken any Greek so that's probably how they would be inclined to pronounce it anyway. I say no harm done. It certainly isn't worth tearing your hair out over, which is what it looks like you were doing when you wrote that subject line.

George Somsel

I am stunned and disheartened to near incapacity. I just watch the Logos TV commercial...and I was immediately met with a Louisville Slugger in the solar plexus in the form of a voice over that pronounces the name of the company with two omegas instead of two omicrons...i.e. with two long-O sounds instead of the "o in omlet" sound that is correct. I have always been pleasantly pleased with the fact that Logos always got this right when there are so many (especially here is the South where I'm from) who butcher the word with exaggerated long "Oh" sounds.

Yes, I'm sure it's earth-shattering. Some probably even think it refers to the Lowe(s) company! Tsk, tsk. How can anyone trust any resource he purchases from Lohgoes after that? [:S]

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/474568#Comment_474568

Yes, I'm sure it's earth-shattering.

This about sums it up.

Robert M. Warren

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/474570#Comment_474570

Matthew C Jones

If the girl who answers the phones can get it right, why on earth can't Logos put together a TV commercial that does?

Get over it! 130 million Japanese pronounce "Honda" with a long "O" sound. It is a Japanese word so they are saying it correctly. For some reason their commercials in the USA mis-pronounce it "Hah-n-dah" and 300+ million Americans follow suit. Same thing goes for "Subaru." The accent is really on the second syllable, not the first.

The various ways "Logos" is pronounced adds to the marketing hype. Remember VW's "Farfegnugen" ads? (Yes, I had to look it up.) The longer you get people to talk about your name the more memorable it becomes.

With the many expert linguists employed at Logos do you really think you are the first to educate them on this? [:-*] Toraaaaaah, Rhaymaah -- or is it Hraymaah? [6]

Rich DeRuiter

At least they didn't say low-goes (ending with a 'z' sound).

I've seen it written on this site by users as Logo's. I'm sure you know what a logo is and how it's plural would be spelled and pronounced.

But today is Palm Sunday, and if I don't do something, some rocks are going to start shouting "Hosanna!" (I'm sure they'll pronounce it correctly.)

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/474605#Comment_474605

The various ways "Logos" is pronounced adds to the marketing hype. Remember VW's "Farfegnugen" ads? (Yes, I had to look it up.)

I like fig newtons ! [:D]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/474611#Comment_474611

I always say Loa-gos. Awl my friends due two. Accept the guy that works for the lumber company. He calls it Log-os. Plus even Google no's it's logo's.

Mark Smith

Logos HAS to fix this abomination before it gets beamed into homes and hamlets across the land.

Well the official name of the company is pronounced Low-Goes Bible Software. That's why they answer the phone that way.

There was a discussion here some time back about the proper pronunciation of the Greek word λόγος focused on the question of the pronunciation of the omicrons. I was taught that they are short 'o' sounds, but others hold out to a long 'o' sound.

Listen to the way the software pronounces this word. It is long 'o's.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/474634#Comment_474634

Listen to the way the software pronounces this word. It is long 'o's.

The read-aloud feature pronounces it with short o's. The Pronunciation tool pronounces it with long ones.

Mitchell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/474661#Comment_474661

Before we get all worked up, let's remember that Koine is a dead language. The way we all learned to pronounce Greek in class is mostly didactic, and has little to do with the way it was originally said. Both pronunciations of omicron have been correct at some time or another.

http://www.biblicalgreek.org/links/pronunciation.php

Fred Chapman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/474669#Comment_474669

Before we get all worked up, let's remember that Koine is a dead language. The way we all learned to pronounce Greek in class is mostly didactic, and has little to do with the way it was originally said. Both pronunciations of omicron have been correct at some time or another.

http://www.biblicalgreek.org/links/pronunciation.php

I agree. Bob Utley has a pet peeve about being dogmatic about the correct pronunciation of words in the ancient languages since no one, including the language scholars use that language and have no idea what was considered correct or incorrect when they were widely used.

We see the same thing in our own language. I have lived in the Northeast, southeast, and Northern California. There are differences in the way the same words are pronounced. When I pronounce my favorite pie I say pe-can; others say pe-con. As long as it is made with fresh pecans, is warmed up and has a scoop of vanilla ice cream on top of it...who cares what we call it. [:D]

Eric Weiss

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/474673#Comment_474673

According to Dr. Randall Buth's phonemic Koiné pronunciation

http://www.biblicallanguagecenter.com/koine-greek-pronunciation/

Koiné omega would be pronounced like Modern Greek Omega - i.e., indistinguishable from omicron and very close to a long o sound.

I just watched the commercial, and by pronouncing it like "LOW-gohss (rhymes with "gross")" they are perfectly fine - much more correct than the so-called "Erasmian" "LAW-goss."

Dr. Chrys Caragounis, though he argues for even less of a pronunciation difference between Modern Greek and Koiné than Buth does, would concur re: the identical pronunciation of omega and omicron.

FYI - you need to ditch the "rough" versus "smooth" breathing, too, as the "rough" breathing had disappeared by Koiné times. Also, accent marks had become simply stress markers with no differences between them.

JPH

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/474684#Comment_474684

According to Dr. Randall Buth's phonemic Koiné pronunciation

I think Buth may single-handedly bring down the Erasmian pronunciation system in one generation. I took his greek class years ago. He's dang convincing.

Eric Weiss

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/474706#Comment_474706

According to Dr. Randall Buth's phonemic Koiné pronunciation

I think Buth may single-handedly bring down the Erasmian pronunciation system in one generation. I took his greek class years ago. He's dang convincing.

I attended one of his immersion/fluency courses in Fresno 2011. It was a lot of fun. I just wish I had time to devote to it and/or a place and group with which to teach it and practice it. I have his books and mp3 CDs for both Hebrew and Greek.

I've known him for many years - we first got to meet at an ETS meeting - and got to have lunch with him when I was in Israel a few years ago. He's brilliant and will have a decided impact on Biblical Greek (and possibly Hebrew). Read his essay in Biblical Greek Language and Lexicography: Essays in Honor of Frederick W. Danker. If I could retire and move to Israel I'd love to go to work for him as a student and eventual helper.

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

I didn't write, direct, produce, or star in the ad, but here's my take: Consider that you're creating an ad for people who may never have heard a Greek word before in their lives, and you want to maximise the chance that they'll type it into Google or their web browser address bar correctly.

Optimising for conversion rate, not "correct" Koine Greek pronunciation is clearly the better goal.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/474759#Comment_474759

I didn't write, direct, produce, or star in the ad, but here's my take: Consider that you're creating an ad for people who may never have heard a Greek word before in their lives, and you want to maximise the chance that they'll type it into Google or their web browser address bar correctly.

Optimising for conversion rate, not "correct" Koine Greek pronunciation is clearly the better goal.

Dan replied to my email and gave a similar explanation. I...accept...this explanation. [:(]

Keith Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/474706#Comment_474706

I think Buth may single-handedly bring down the Erasmian pronunciation system in one generation. I took his greek class years ago. He's dang convincing

Let's hope so!

Keith Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/474713#Comment_474713

I just wish I had time to devote to it and/or a place and group with which to teach it and practice it.

John Swchandt hosts a NT reading group once a week (Wed. 1:30 PM ET) during which a small group of us read and discuss the text using the recreated Koine pronunciation system. We would love to have you join us. We will be reading from John 13 this week. Here is the link if you are interested: http://www.biblicalgreek.org/classes/web/IntWC.php.

Eric Weiss

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/474790#Comment_474790

I met John at ETS several years ago, and used his online course to test my own and my students' Greek proficiency. Great guy! Maybe I will sometime.

Keith Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/474792#Comment_474792

Heads up to those who use Buth's system, please add your support to my suggestion to add Imperial Greek to the audio.