Should I purchase a few books for some future friend?
Comments
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Rosie Perera said:
Unix, I would agree with the others who have advised you not to do this. I think you would end up regretting it. I know it is hard to pass up a good deal, but maybe this deal is for someone else.
Don't use Logos books as a crutch for conversation. Don't even waste your time exporting sections of your Logos books to print for your friend to read to discuss. I think you will learn better how to be a friend (which is a prerequisite in making good friends), if you just speak naturally about what is on your heart. If you have been reading something interesting, and you want to share it with your friend, or get his or her opinion about it, you can simply summarize the ideas and say "What do you think?" And then listen to their ideas and let them have their own mind on it. You don't need to convince them to see things exactly your way. That is part of the give and take of what true friendship is.
You sound like you haven't had much experience with friendship, and I feel really sad for you. You also mentioned that you are "psychically ill" (by which I understand what we would call mental or psychological illness), which probably makes forming natural friendships very difficult. And the lack of friendship must in turn contribute to the illness. Such a torment.
I pray that God would bring you friendship, stability, hope, joy, clarity of thought, normalcy, and a deeper faith in Him and compassion for other people through what you have had to endure. May He be all sufficient for you, and yet I know he knows how we are fearfully and wonderfully made, and that we need human companionship, in person, fellow pilgrims on the journey.
Blessings to you.
[Y]
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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Unix, I agree with the other recent posters about NOT buying this potential new friend a copy of Logos.
That is why I suggested a physical copy of the Portable Seminary as it is not too deep yet gives you some topics to discuss from a broad spectrum of topics
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Well I'm pretty sure the friend won't know enough about the things I would be talking about - he wouldn't even be understanding the terminology, nor know History. It's highly unlikely he has any knowledge about the things in Guides to Biblical Scholarship Series (12 vols.), and I'm yet to meet any person over here other than Gk and Hebrew scholars, who is able to determine what English Bible version to read - people over here have extremely poor knowledge about English Bible versions. The best is to use several English Bible versions, and how is the friend going to do that conveniently without a Logos base-package with the Revised English Bible added and UBS Handbook NT (in the A-company software). Perhaps that about English Bible versions doesn't sound all that important to You at first, but people over here generally use Bibles in the local language - I don't have those Bibles, I know those Bibles are no good, I don't want to get them in advance before I'm studying Theology in uni, and I want to discuss in English because it's easier for me to discuss Theological things in English than in the local language. The Churches I go to over here have the sermon in English. I don't learn Swedish terminology anywhere:
Rosie Perera said:Don't use Logos books as a crutch for conversation. Don't even waste your time exporting sections of your Logos books to print for your friend to read to discuss. I think you will learn better how to be a friend (which is a prerequisite in making good friends), if you just speak naturally about what is on your heart.
Hmm, I didn't understand what exactly You meant by that, Bruce? If You meant praying that the friend will buy his own books that really won't work, the boss at the firm has said that all of them are unwilling to pay any expensive things such as books from their own pocket. The problem with printed matter is also that over here it's very difficult to sell theology books, it's for example impossible to list on sites such as Amazon, and the local sites are small in comparison. Logos purchases are somewhat easy to sell. If You meant that I should pray for my own finances there won't be any change either - I have to study a lot, and after my studies I won't be able to use knowledge such as Greek to make money. I could university engineer studies, but the probability that I finish such studies is not that great. There is currently an education inflation over here, and I don't have much work experience due to that I started a family as very young and my time went to that. I'm OK about my finances, I'm not dreaming of making more money:Bruce Dunning said:Instead I would pray and ask God to meet all my needs and trust Him to guide me in the future. May God give you the wisdom you need in the days ahead.
Rosie, like I said it would be a bit time-consuming to do that. Just giving the friend whole books to read would save a whole lot of my time. Additionally I'm interested so many things so that I find interesting things all the time - just to determine what would be best to share would take a bit of time:
Rosie Perera said:If you have been reading something interesting, and you want to share it with your friend, or get his or her opinion about it, you can simply summarize the ideas and say "What do you think?" And then listen to their ideas and let them have their own mind on it. You don't need to convince them to see things exactly your way.
I have very little time, I have to go now to see the man whom to discuss with about friendship, but regarding that about how to make friends. I make friends easily, the illness doesn't affect that - I have a lot of empathy. It's just that it's extremely difficult to find anyone who has knowledge.Disclosure!
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Unix said:
Hmm, I didn't understand what exactly You meant by that, Bruce? If You meant praying that the friend will buy his own books that really won't work, the boss at the firm has said that all of them are unwilling to pay any expensive things such as books from their own pocket. The problem with printed matter is also that over here it's very difficult to sell theology books, it's for example impossible to list on sites such as Amazon, and the local sites are small in comparison. Logos purchases are somewhat easy to sell. If You meant that I should pray for my own finances there won't be any change either - I have to study a lot, and after my studies I won't be able to use knowledge such as Greek to make money. I could university engineer studies, but the probability that I finish such studies is not that great. There is currently an education inflation over here, and I don't have much work experience due to that I started a family as very young and my time went to that. I'm OK about my finances, I'm not dreaming of making more money:
Bruce Dunning said:Instead I would pray and ask God to meet all my needs and trust Him to guide me in the future. May God give you the wisdom you need in the days ahead.
Unix, I meant this is a far more general way. I'm not sure how God will meet the needs you are trying to express but I'm confident that He can and will if you trust Him through the process.
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Good luck with making a friend.
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Kelvin, You see the quote from Encyclopedia of Christianity. That citation was a good prediction. It really is like that over here.
I was introduced in person to this man. He would make a good friend (can go for example sailing with him, and he has a piano just like me), and he goes to Church about every third week, but he reads somewhat little. He even introduced me to his family right away. He mostly reads History, he has been subscribing to a magazine for a long time. Regarding the Bible he only reads the New Testament. I told him that passages could be selected verse-by-verse for quick study and he said the NT is interesting. He didn't read the NT in English yet, but he's been an English teacher. He's a member of a Protestant Church that is represented in the U.S. also. But he admitted that he hasn't been doing any in-depth research and that I would have to talk to someone else about the original meaning of Bible passages, and he also said he would not read every book I give him. During winters I would have to discuss ancient History with him.
The other person was a woman who is very active in an Orthodox Church of some sort - just like the citation says there's a LOT of Orthodox Churches (downtown). I think I would be able to do other activities to a much lesser extent with her.
I can think over the weekend, and if I want to I can meet the man, and if I'm not content with him I can choose the woman instead:
Kelvin Niblett said:Good luck with making a friend.
... so it's basically a matter of whether I prefer Protestant or Orthodox, and want to discuss History or not, want exciting activities or not. Can't have both just like no-one with few friends.One of the last things I told the man was that I haven't had big interests in anything whatsoever earlier on during several periods, for example two years ago, so he immediately said that it's better that I have an interest than not having any interest.
Regarding the man, if I would give him just the L3 base-package and leave out Minimal Crossgrades, Guides to Biblical Scholarship Series (12 vols.), and the A-company software, that would be enough. He's been a teacher for a very long time, I don't think the Wiersbe NT volumes would be overwhelming to him.
Regarding the woman - I have yet to decide whether to meet her, and talk to her, to see what kind of purchases to make. Logos doesn't carry any Orthodox base-packages (yet?), and Verbum is so undeveloped and contains mostly dated translations and such. So L3 could be the safest bet, I think she could be even more interested in homiletic commentaries than the man since she's active in Church which probably means she has some kind of interest in presenting knowledge.
Lastly: if no-one wants the L3 base-package I'll install it on my mother's newly purchased tablet. She has studied Theology in English and Swedish. The tablet came accidentally, she didn't plan the purchase it was offered to her on the street together with her old subscription. So she's looking for utilizing it. In that case I'm gonna have her pay her preferred Swedish Bible version, Logos has a shop in Sweden from where she can order it. She's scared of purchasing anything on the internet, so I will have to use my debit card and she gives me the sum cash. I've allread talked to her initially about that I buy books to tablets and the computer used, so she'll probably understand the L3 purchase (it's difficult to get her understand how I use my money so I never speak to her about how many books I have).
Additionally I have a new friend, a man about my age, who got interested in comparing the English and Swedish Bibles side-by-side. Unfortunately his smartphone has a VERY small monitor, so I would have to try to talk him into reading the Bible on his Windows XP computer (hence he would not be able to use L5 Core Datasets anyway).
There is also this woman, I don't know her exact age but I think she's younger than me, at Church. She lives at some distance. She's studied Theology for 4 years and Greek for 2 years and she preaches sometimes. If I can have a small slice from her busy schedule (she runs her own construction and painting business) I will have a knowledgeable friend. And how many have BOTH the A-company software AND Logos since before?
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Several forum users have already advised that buying Logos for a compensated companion/caregiver is a bad idea. To continue to discuss the nature of that relationship is beyond the purpose of these forums. It is time to end this thread.
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Well I wouldn't have if Rosie and Kelvin would not have started to say that it's difficult for me to find friends. The reason why I don't have more friends is not that it would be difficult for me, but other reasons.
It seems like I have to keep pointing out the same things over and over again.
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David, longer explanations like this about possible plans is not OK even though it's a big decisions, but other big things are OK to mention and You would approve: such as what degree each Logos forum participant has! I'm posting little compared to a large part of all users. I believe this thread can be useful for others, who are thinking of decisions such as buying Bible Study software for their children. Why stop discussing now when the person who knows me and my life the best, my girlfriend, says it would be a really nice thing of me to do to purchase the Bible Study softwares to a friend - just that she thinks I should also think about whether I afford to do that? I didn't need to explain to her elaborately like I had to several users in this thread, even though she's currently not even a Logos user!:
David Thomas said:To continue to discuss the nature of that relationship is beyond the purpose of these forums.
So You don't need to moderate this thread, David, if You already have Your own personal friends to discuss with and don't need to worry whether You afford to buy books!Disclosure!
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[quote]
So You don't need to moderate this thread, David,
from http://community.logos.com/forums/t/10072.aspx
Please abide by the following guidelines as you interact on our forums.
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This thread certainly has the right focus! I plan to spend a lot in Logos. I don't want more questions about the nature of the friendship because I've clarified it and like I just said it would not have been necessary for me to elaborate on that, if ...
... if everything would be plain simple and this whole question would be so common that it would be bright as daylight to everyone.The rules don't say that specific issues can't be discussed!
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I don't get it: why did You tell that to me? I have been insisting in this thread that one way or another I'm going to spend on books either to myself or a friend, but in replys here people have told me that owning books is not needed for discussing them. As that's not especially clear I'd like more discussion and advice. I think I've covered most questions by now.
In 2-3 hours I'll see whether I make friend with the woman at Church who has studied Theology and Greek:David Thomas said:Please keep your discussions focused on Logos Bible Software
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Unix said:
I don't get it
Hi Unix,
I am not David, and so cannot be 100% certain of his intentions. However, having read through the thread, I would politely and humbly suggest that you should perhaps refrain from discussing specific individuals known to yourself on a public forum (such as this). They may be surprised (and perhaps unhappy) to find themselves the subject of a public discussion (should they stumble across this thread).
Finally, I do feel for your situation and echo what has already been said here: I pray that you would find peace, friendship and ever increasing joy in Him.
Blessings,
[:D]
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Unix, I'm sorry if you are getting frustrated in the thread - it sounds to me as if you are. I have not weighed in because, from my perspective, it is difficult to give sound advice without knowing you, your friend, and your respective social/financial situation. Buying for a friend can come across as anything from a very thoughtful gesture to a slap in the face - implying an inability to purchase it for oneself or the lack of intelligence to do so.
Asking such "unanswerable" questions on open forums is bound to raise an number of responses - some will try to pry enough information out of you to give an educated guess as to an answer; some suggest that you ask those more apt to be able to give an informed answer; some will become uncomfortable with the thread as it is not about Logos software as much as it is about interpersonal relationships.
Please have patience with all the forum members trying to deal with the proverbial "can of worms" your question raises and accept all the responses as sincere efforts to assist you either in your original question or in your understanding of others' responses.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Thanks for recognizing this dilemma! I have a long experience from online forums and this is about how good as discussions get, sometimes of course better:
MJ. Smith said:Unix, I'm sorry if you are getting frustrated in the thread - it sounds to me as if you are.
I'm trying to understand right now which is easier: putting books in the hand of a friend, or lacking books. Both choices are compromises in some way. The best situation would be making the friend curious of a topic - then I could either give him/her books or he/she could buy by himself/herself, whichever is easier at that time:MJ. Smith said:I have not weighed in because, from my perspective, it is difficult to give sound advice without knowing you, your friend, and your respective social/financial situation.
Well I know the gifts would not be perfect, no Bible Study software is perfect and if I explain that fact they/he/she might understand:MJ. Smith said:Buying for a friend can come across as anything from a very thoughtful gesture to a slap in the face - implying an inability to purchase it for oneself or the lack of intelligence to do so.
Now that I've given more details and no-one has changed their mind, I'm wondering whether they feel a bit "sure" about the advice the advice given or whether it's something else:MJ. Smith said:Please have patience with all the forum members trying to deal with the proverbial "can of worms" your question raises and accept all the responses as sincere efforts to assist you either in your original question or in your understanding of others' responses.
I'm not going to say much more about them. Just that I made friends now with the woman I mentioned last, who has studied Theology and Greek. I had got her email address a little earlier through "my" pastor, and now I have her my desk phone number. She promised to discuss things like Biblical Criticism, Church History and Pauline Studies. She was in a hurry to the train now, but I've met her every day since Wednesday and once earlier on a couple of months ago. Basically we met as a group. She was generally amicable:Andy Evans said:I would politely and humbly suggest that you should perhaps refrain from discussing specific individuals known to yourself on a public forum (such as this). They may be surprised (and perhaps unhappy) to find themselves the subject of a public discussion (should they stumble across this thread).
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I made friends with one more person now, a man, a little younger than me. He has studied Theology at university. And right now he has other studies and a lack of free time. A year from now he'll have more time. He uses only the A-company software and has not yet read all of the books he has. I'll be mainly in email touch with him, he lives in the States.
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Hi Unix, thats great news.
If you wanted to help me as a theological friend you could read some of the things I write and give me feedback from different perspectives.
Look me up on facebook if that sounds good
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Hello Unix, how did you get on with your new friend?
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College just started (college is only one year over here) and I didn't have time to communicate much with the new friend(s). Most of them, especially the ones that are more educated, don't live close:
Kelvin Niblett said:how did you get on with your new friend?
I started two relevant threads: What is the Cath. or Anabapt. equivalent to Wiersbe BE series?
Authorship of Ephesians Catholic Commentary on Sacred Scripture
Regarding my original question: I'm still thinking about what to do. I have one volume from the Catholic Commentary on Sacred Scripture as printed matter and am hesitant to get more volumes, but perhaps I should as I've now decided that I will choose the woman who is active in an Orthodox Church (out of the two I was able to choose from). I don't want the Catholic Commentary on Sacred Scripture Upgrade (2 vols.), so the volumes I can choose from have regular price. I should make the choice regarding the latter before the Free Book, $20 Gift Certificate, and Special Discounts in the 500K Celebration! $20 Gift Certificate expires on October 15.
Whether or not to buy the two copies of the small L3 base-package, is a tricky question.It's strange that these small-group homiletic commentaries I've discussed are a bit expensive. But I guess there's no cheap solution.
EDIT: here's a brief comparison of L4 base-packages: Credo Magazine » Credo readers receive 15% off base packages of ....
EDIT2: here's also a comparison, and recommendation: Which Libronix library should I purchase? | Logos Discounts.
EDIT3: here's a few posts about the Wiersbe resources: Best New Testament Application Commentary, Application commentary (2 or 3 posts), Selling Logos 4 in Bookstores?, George has hidden Wiersbe: Custom Purchase vs. Package Purchase.
EDIT4, also: Best Commentary Series: Sermon Outlines, Illustrations, Applications.
EDIT5: here's a new review of one of the volumes (I think this volume is included in L3 Bible Study Library, but I'm not positive): Wiersbe does it again.Disclosure!
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Maybe an easier commentary + a scholarly historical commentary on a select part of the Bible would be the way to go?
See discussion in: http://www.christianforums.com/t7768598-post64009159/#poststop
(although it's a bit unsure whether I'll get the particular woman who is active in some Orthodox Church as a friend, now the firm is suggesting some man of whom I don't know anything yet).
Perhaps:- Be Hopeful: 1 Peter
- Be Alert: 2 Peter, 2 & 3 John, Jude on Jude
- Catholic Commentary on Sacred Scripture: First and
Second Peter, Jude by Daniel A. Keating on 1 Pt and Jude, for the friend in Logos. - Daniel J. Harrington & Donald P. Senior. 1 Peter, Jude, and 2 Peter. Collegeville: Liturgical Press, 2003. On 1 Pt and Jude, as printed matter for both
I thought that the latter would qualify as a scholarly historical commentary.
(I have Hermeneia on 1 Pt, Sheffield New Testament Guides: 2 Peter and Jude both in Logos and as printed matter which I use for Jude, and The Preaching to the Spirits in Prison in Logos which I got as Daily Deal 50% and is from the turn of the 19th/20th century.)
Are there any finds from 1 Pt or Jude in the Green collection manuscripts? If there are, it's going to change things.
Perhaps I could get those two BE-series volumes as printed matter for the friend?
Be Hopeful (1 Pt): http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=10716867684&tab=1&searchurl=an%3Dwiersbe%26amp%3Bbi%3D0%26amp%3Bbx%3Doff%26amp%3Bds%3D30%26amp%3Bn%3D200000169%26amp%3Brecentlyadded%3Dall%26amp%3Bsortby%3D2%26amp%3Bsts%3Dt%26amp%3Btn%3Dbe%2Bhopeful%26amp%3Bx%3D81%26amp%3By%3D16 £0.64 + shipping £3.39.
... that seller has also some cheap Revised English Bibles (I would need a NT or 66-book Bible): http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?bi=0&bx=off&ds=30&recentlyadded=all&sortby=17&sts=t&tn=revised+english+bible&vci=51737811&x=95&y=9 shipping for additional book £2.39 a book
Be Alert (... Jude): http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9632075325&searchurl=an%3Dwiersbe%26amp%3Bbi%3D0%26amp%3Bbx%3Doff%26amp%3Bds%3D30%26amp%3Brecentlyadded%3Dall%26amp%3Bsortby%3D17%26amp%3Bsts%3Dt%26amp%3Btn%3Dbe%2Balert%26amp%3Bvci%3D57602331%26amp%3Bx%3D82%26amp%3By%3D19 £0.66 + shipping £3.42
So, the cost for 1 Pt and Jude in the BE-series as printed matter would be: £.64 + £2.89 + £.66 + £3.42 = US$11.93. That's somewhat cheap when You think about it.There is also a store downtown over here where I live, that sells the BE-series. They seem to have quite many of the volumes. I'm not sure that they are cheaper though!
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I'm studying in the last Psychology class that this college has, this might be the largest college in this country. (I'm trying to combine schedules and go to another college nearby also.)
Maybe I'm destroying my life with these expenses? Should I just look for the very cheapest option?
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It's difficult to remember whether this is in the small old base-package: lgs.to/1bMCOtX It's now on daily deal (see twitter), sale price $4.97.
but I think I'll order it both for myself and the friend, and look for more volumes on sale. I should ask now the seller of the used base-package for the archive.org URL which lists the contents. There's the 30-day return policy.I'll just give this whole thing a bit of thought until Sunday afternoon. Regarding the extra Accordance account and Guides to Biblical Scholarship Series I'll cancel those as they are expensive and it's very uncertain whether there's much use for them.
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Here is a summary by Allen of some L4 Bible Study Library: comparing packages: general question.
And summaries of all L4 base-packages: Bible vs Leaders vs Scholar.
EDIT2: George Somsel and Joel Reed would not recommend the Bible Study Library: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/52580/384987.aspx#384987EDIT: L3 Bible Study Library is more advanced than L4 Bible Study Library and L5 Starter in the sense that it includes 11 Wiersbe OT volumes and that the NIV84 is not gender-neutral like so many newer versions. My English is like English was a few decades ago, see: Now, I don't have the NIV and....
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Anyone with a last minute comment?
Perhaps me and a friend would need the TNIV for Jude: semi-adv. 1Pt&Jude commentary with history of interpretation?, because of for example the PNTC volume. That Bible version is no longer sold by Logos and would be included in the L3 Bible Study Library. On the other hand it would of course be easy to take the Epistle off the internet and make a Personal Book of it in Logos.
I have a hard time finding any other commentary set equal to Wiersbe BE-series that is even better value for money or a little better and just very slightly more expensive. If the latter would exist that might be something if it's sold as individual volumes. In order to find out, I now created this thread: homiletic commentary a little better than Wiersbe BE-series w/ individual...
The main question is still whether this used L3 base-package is too basic for both of us and it would be better to just sherry-pick books. A part of the value for the friend are the Bibles that come with it. I really think the friend would do fine without the extra functionality from the L4 Minimal Crossgrade and L5 Core Datasets.
An option is to get the two copies of the L3 Bible Study Library and sherry pick for example more 1 Pt and Jude commentaries in order to focus discussion on those two Epistles.
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Just make a friend first and forget the idea of buying your friend a logos package. Friend first then you might consider getting them something0
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Look at these two posts, one by ArmyMatt, one by me: http://www.christianforums.com/t7768598-post64029333/#post64029333 ... important piece of advice!
EDIT:
I think my choice will be the commentary I review in Here's another review: I... on Philippians, it 's not in Logos (my review is on Christianforums) and PNTC on Jude, and I'll let the friend decide whether he/she wants that PNTC volume as printed matter or in Logos. In addition to that I'll share two commentaries that I have on Jude, with the friend, I have them as printed matter and one of them in Logos too.
I'll make a PB Bible which contains Jude.
Additionally, I was thinking of studying and discussing parts of Sirach with the friend, but that'll be sometime later on as I don't have much on it yet and am waiting for future commentaries.
It looks like I'm not going to purchase the small used L3 base-package which contains 11 Wiersbe BE-series OT -volumes and NIV84 and TNIV and a couple of interesting books in addition to what I have, for neither me nor the friend. I'm looking at how the currency exchange rate is developing: it was favourable right now but I just cancelled the transfer, and I'll look again in 23½ hours from now. Whether to buy the two L3 base-package copies is a question of what value I get.
I'm calculating that sherry-picking the essential individual volumes that correspond to the L3 package for the friend would cost, including postage for a couple of them, would cost at least $55.5, and sherry-picking the volumes I want myself, would cost approximately $64. So if I just value the rest of the package a few $, it would be better to get the package for both of us.
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