64 Bit and Grand Central Dispatch
I'm sure this has been discussed plenty of times, but are there any plans to make Logos (even a future major release) 64 Bit? It'd be great for performance.
The Mac app would also benefit from Grand Central Dispatch for multicore support.
Thanks!
Nathan Parker
Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com
Comments
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The simple answer, as I understand it, is that some third party parts of logos are incompatible with 64 bit currently. Until those get updated, 64 bit is a no go.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
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As last discussed with Logos there isn't a great incentive to go 64 bit as it would require more memory and the performance improvement would be negligible.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Nathan Parker said:
I'm sure this has been discussed plenty of times, but are there any plans to make Logos (even a future major release) 64 Bit? It'd be great for performance.
The Mac app would also benefit from Grand Central Dispatch for multicore support.
It has — don't hold your breath.
Logos has (has to have?) a lowest common denominator approach with the Logos app because it's multi-platform. So you won't see, unique to OS X, 64 bit features like Grand Central when the underlying platform is well and truly stuck in 32 bit.
"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein
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Adobe products are multi-platform. It does not stop them.
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Larry Good said:
Adobe products are multi-platform. It does not stop them.
Two thoughts:
- It has stopped Adobe in the past.
- Adobe isn't depending upon the same code which is preventing Logos from going 64 bit.
(I'm not arguing that it wouldn't be great and good if it were… I'm just explaining why it won't be so for a while. Personally, I would love a Mac native engine built from the ground up… but for reasons explained many times by Bob and others, it isn't likely to happen).
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
It would make sense that the underlying technologies (since Logos is cross platform) would have to offer 64 Bit support before Logos could adapt it.
Even if the entire engine didn't go 64 Bit, I wish even just the indexer could. That's a part that could benefit from the extra RAM.
As for Adobe, it's true. Adobe is using totally different type of code. Remember that their Windows version went 64 Bit before the Mac version did. I can see why Logos went the route they did to ensure both the PC and Mac versions get feature updates either identical or nearly identical on release day. A fully Mac native app would be nice, but way too limited. We remember what happened with Libronix porting to the Mac. :-)
Nathan Parker
Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com
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Nathan Parker said:
Even if the entire engine didn't go 64 Bit, I wish even just the indexer could. That's a part that could benefit from the extra RAM.
That's a puzzling statement, Nathan. What is the benefit when extra RAM is needed for the 64-bit program which also has to communicate with the 32-bit main program?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:Nathan Parker said:
Even if the entire engine didn't go 64 Bit, I wish even just the indexer could. That's a part that could benefit from the extra RAM.
That's a puzzling statement, Nathan. What is the benefit when extra RAM is needed for the 64-bit program which also has to communicate with the 32-bit main program?
Not sure if this'll answer it, but sometimes I quit Logos while the indexer is running and allow it to run. While it's running, it really makes my processor fans spin, as well as it's also limited to the amount of memory it uses to index books. If there was a way to increase the performance of just the indexer, I'd be happy.
Nathan Parker
Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com
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Nathan Parker said:
While it's running, it really makes my processor fans spin, as well as it's also limited to the amount of memory it uses to index books.
That's a limitation of the processor/fan used in the computer. My old dual-core laptop needed external cooling during indexing or it would shut down. The current i5 laptop has better cooling and runs with little fan intervention.
An SSD contributes significantly to indexing speed, with my laptop i5 almost matching the desktop i7 with HDD - no need to wait for 64-bit!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I have multiple SSDs one of which is a PCI-E attached device to maximize throughput and 48 Gig of RAM and 8 processors. Logos does not take full advantage during indexing.
Aggregate I/O is about 1000 MB/s (1 Gigabyte) and 140,000 IOPS. Throttling is indicated due to limited use of CPU resource and RAM relative to what is available.0 -
Windows allows 2 GB for 32-bit programs but Logos will have less than 1 GB after associated API's (.NET, etc.) are loaded.
I believe Logos allows 4 threads for resources being indexed, so that can maximise a dual-core processor with hyperlinking (other threads are used for management of the process).
Indexing is CPU intensive but I/O is significant when updatingn the actual indexes after all resources have been processed.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:Nathan Parker said:
While it's running, it really makes my processor fans spin, as well as it's also limited to the amount of memory it uses to index books.
That's a limitation of the processor/fan used in the computer. My old dual-core laptop needed external cooling during indexing or it would shut down. The current i5 laptop has better cooling and runs with little fan intervention.
An SSD contributes significantly to indexing speed, with my laptop i5 almost matching the desktop i7 with HDD - no need to wait for 64-bit!
I have an i7 with Multi Thread, but my processor fans still go crazy when indexing. I am considering upgrading to a MBP with flash storage.
Nathan Parker
Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com
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I will reconfigure so that the I/O subsystem can give 2 Gig's per second I/O and 240,000 IOPS.
I will report back, but I am guessing CPU/RAM is the limit, given the system can dump the entire RAM associated with Logos in 1 second. I have over 40 Gig Ram idle and the CPU's are way underutilized due to logos only being able to create 4 threads. It could comfortably fit most of the Database in RAM. It is clearly an application bottleneck period.
I have several applications that can use all the hardware I throw at it, so I know the motherboard and associated system bus architecture has the throughput to drive 8 CPU's over 85% utilization sustained up to 30 minutes in my workflow. The workflow entails large datasets that tax the I/O subsystem0 -
Larry Good said:
I have multiple SSDs one of which is a PCI-E attached device to maximize throughput and 48 Gig of RAM and 8 processors. Logos does not take full advantage during indexing.
Logos 5 hasn't been tuned for this kind of hardware.
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Ya think ? Though I would hope it would do better than sip straws at the RAM. Maybe the Law of Leaky Abstractions is dragging it down [H]
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