Jaroslav Pelikan
Comments
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HJ. van der Wal said:Sean said:
Am I the only one who opens the pre-pub page every day to see if we've got a ship date yet?
The five volumes of "The Christian Tradition: A History of the Development of Doctrine" have just downloaded to my computer (as part of a base package).
Thank you Faithlife!
Oh my goodness, thank you for posting! This was the one day I hadn't checked.
I had really hoped this would ship before Christmas, but no date was coming up on the pre-pub page. It's a Christmas miracle! I now know what is going to occupy a lot of my 2023 reading time.
(Rick Brannan's study guide to the Apostles' Creed dropped too, which is also exciting.)
ETA: After a very brief check, it looks like FL did an excellent job with the links, which would have been a considerable challenge with this particular work.
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HJ. van der Wal said:
The five volumes of "The Christian Tradition: A History of the Development of Doctrine" have just downloaded to my computer (as part of a base package).
This is when I can't understand why they can't ship it already to all of us who pre-ordered it. Why do those who get it via a base package get to have it first? It's almost tempting to seek out the cheapest base package that includes it and see what kind of dynamic price I'd get on that and whether it's worth it. Nah, Lutheran Gold. For $27.74 I could get the 15 resources in it that I don't already have, but none of them are really anything I care about. I can wait. But hmmph.
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Rosie Perera said:
This is when I can't understand why they can't ship it already to all of us who pre-ordered it. Why do those who get it via a base package get to have it first?
Yes. I only learned of that practice recently and it doesn't seem right. I'm glad I went the base package route--it worked out best for me this cycle--but I would be very upset if I had just kept the pre-pub and was forced to wait. I have (literally) coveted this resource for years.
It also renders the pre-pub search page on logos.com useless. It shows a bunch of resources I already own and have as "in production," which had me confused for quite some time.
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Rosie Perera said:
Why do those who get it via a base package get to have it first?
Because we ordered it in a base package. [:D][;)]
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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I think not releasing it to everyone who wants it the moment it is ready is dumb.
I think listing it as "in production" without a release date is dumb.
I think doing all the above and not giving pre-pubbers any information about how they can get on the "good kid" list and finally get it is... more than dumb.
If this is all about not flooding people's credit cards with pre-pubs all at once--well, isn't that what credit cards are for? I actually order very few pre-pubs. If I were having to wait weeks/months for this one because of other people's issues, it wouldn't sit well.
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Like, this one is even worse:
I got it today, so yay! But are pre-pubbers going to have to wait until there are enough other orders booked to push it over the line which could be... never?
This doesn't make any sense.
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Sean said:
But are pre-pubbers going to have to wait until there are enough other orders booked to push it over the line which could be... never?
Of course not, you have now argued to reductio ad absurdum. I do not know how the Faithlife process works that leads to the behavior of staggered release and status lags, but I do know that I appreciate the "in production" status which indicates to me that a commitment to the project has been made and, in some sense, funded.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Sean said:
But are pre-pubbers going to have to wait until there are enough other orders booked to push it over the line which could be... never?
Of course not, you have now argued to reductio ad absurdum. I do not know how the Faithlife process works that leads to the behavior of staggered release and status lags, but I do know that I appreciate the "in production" status which indicates to me that a commitment to the project has been made and, in some sense, funded.
Agreed on the "in production."
In this particular case of Rick's book, it's definitely ad absurdum, but the case itself is absurd. They're showing it as "Gathering Interest" when it just downloaded on my system. Why does it even have to be marked as a pre-pub? Let people click and buy! Sean's first rule of business: "If people want to give you money, LET THEM." But this discussion is probably better suited for a separate thread.
But it's unfair. Why do I get to have a Pelikan Christmas but Rosie can't?
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Sean said:
But it's unfair.
I consider some of the needless differences between Logos and Verbum to be unfair - and to add unnecessary expenses to maintenance costs; I consider the level of support given to the old mainline Protestant Churches and the middle way Churches (Anglican, Lutheran) to be unfair. A delay in receiving a resource may be unfair but it far down on my list of unfairities. (Okay, I had fun inventing that word.)
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
A delay in receiving a resource may be unfair but it far down on my list of unfairities. (Okay, I had fun inventing that word.)
Company has produced a certain product and has placed it for sale. Customer has money and is ready to exchange it for product on sale. Company delays transaction indefinitely because reasons while already shipping it to other customers. This is a simple, fundamental business mistake very different from the valid but more complex issues you have.
[As this is text comm, let me explicitly state this with my tongue in cheek and a wink in my eye:] There is nothing that FL can do that someone on the forum will not try to defend, no matter how unnecessary. Again, why should I have a Pelikan Christmas but not Rosie? Why does FL want to wait to take her money?
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Also, I'm someone who rarely uses the pre-pub system. This episode is only going to make me more reluctant to use it.
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Sean said:
here is nothing that FL can do that someone on the forum will not try to defend, no matter how unnecessary.
Probably not as this is the only forum I've run into where the users want to run the company. My personal interest is to encourage a change in viewpoint - trying to understand why FL acts as it does ... in hopes that empathy and understanding will decrease this type of thread. I am a firm believer that it is important to understand the why of the current behavior before one can make an actionable suggestion to improve it. From watching the behavior of a product moving through the system and the errors present in new releases, I have come to assume that the internal tools for tracking proposed products through appear on product page for sale, are the result of minimal investment in internal infrastructure and that the number of employees conversant with its various parts has less redundancy than is ideal which makes the absence of particular individuals at particular stages apparent to customers.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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To avoid further derailing this thread, I've started one on the broader topic in the general forum:
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