Logos 4 and Large Updates - back to 3 for me!
Comments
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Mark Barnes said:
\logos\renamed books renamed\ How does Logos4 know about this folder?
- Is Logos 4 installed in d:\Logos?
- When you ran the scan command earlier, did you run scan d:\logos or scan d:\logos\books?
- Hi I have no idea how Logos knows about this location, I renamed the previous folder that Logos was interrogating. I did not allocate the renamed folder to Libronix3 in the resource folders in options so it cannot be picked up from there as even Libronix3 does not know that location.
- To scan I used d:\logos\books
- Logos4 is still installed in the default location that was forced with the beta installation.
Mark Barnes said:Close Logos if it's open.
Move the\logos\renamed books renamed\ folder to somewhere where Logos 4 won't find it (temporarily at least). I'd say put it on Drive C to be on the safe side, and don't have it as a subfolder of a Logos 4 installation.
Do a search for files called identified.db and discovered.db in C:\Documents and Settings\User\Local Settings\Application Data\Logos4 - delete all those files
Restart LogosI will move the folder to another place on drive
not enough space on c as it is rather large.Will search for the db files and delete.
Will restart and see what happens.
Bert Barnes
Acer Extensa, 4gig Ram, 160gig 5400 HD, Core 2 duo processor, WinXP
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BertBarnes said:
Will search for the db files and delete.
Will restart and see what happens.
This seems to have sorted the problem out. Thank you so much.
This exercise has been expensive in download fees but it is great to get a system that is OK.
Thanks Mark [:D]
If the status quo remains i will now have a peaceful Christmas [:D]
Richest Blessings to ALL
Bert Barnes
Acer Extensa, 4gig Ram, 160gig 5400 HD, Core 2 duo processor, WinXP
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I can fully understand the logic behind not offering portion selectable downloads. However, one thing I cannot understand is an issue that plagued me throughout my three years of using LDLS 3 and seems to still be a pain in the neck with version 4. When a update download crashes for whatever reason(s) as it has on occasion for years, you have to begin the download all over again. It doesn't queue or keep track of the files downloaded up to the point of the crash. This was particularly annoying when I lived where the only internet service avbailalbe was 28.8 kbps (Yes, believe it or not, there are areas like that all over the country).
Even Microsoft with all of their shortcomings will resume an update session that has crashed at the point of the last completed file that was downoaded before the crash. Any chance that this could be added for us? It would resolve many of the problems mentioned above with metered internet access.
Bob
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Bob Schlessman said:
resume an update session that has crashed at the point of the last completed file that was downoaded
Bob Schlessman said:Any chance that this could be added for us?
[Y] +1
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
Bob Schlessman said:
When a update download crashes for whatever reason(s) as it has on occasion for years, you have to begin the download all over again. It doesn't queue or keep track of the files downloaded up to the point of the crash. This was particularly annoying when I lived where the only internet service avbailalbe was 28.8 kbps (Yes, believe it or not, there are areas like that all over the country).
Even Microsoft with all of their shortcomings will resume an update session that has crashed at the point of the last completed file that was downoaded before the crash. Any chance that this could be added for us? It would resolve many of the problems mentioned above with metered internet access.
Bob,
I'm not sure that this is the case, but if you have good reason to believe that then please state the case in a new thread where it will receive more attention.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
not sure that this is the case
Hi Dave, I've had at least one instance where I goofed & restarted the machine while a multi-Gb download was in-process. I was dismayed that it started over (& thankful that my DSL provider didn't have a download cap).
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
Dave Hooton said:
I'm not sure that this is the case, but if you have good reason to believe that t
I think that a few weeks back, Logos confirmed that this was the case - to avoid the additional drain on resources that keeping track of place requires.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I'm pretty sure that resources that have been wholly downloaded are OK, but partly-downloaded files are not OK, so you shouldn't have to completely restart a very major download. But there's no technical reason why Logos couldn't implement full file resuming, it requires no resources to do do. It does increase the possibility of data corruption at the 'join', although the usual way of dealing with this is to re-download a bit of data before the 'join' to ensure a proper match.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
shouldn't have to completely restart a very major download.
Agreed shouldn't have to, but it did...
Blessings!
Bill
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
It would be nice to know what Resources are being updated. Under v3 I would go ahead with the download and update anyway ... but it's nice to know what's been changed.
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Bob Pritchett said:
We could theoretically build a massive dependency tree of what version of what requires what version of what other thing (we did that in LDLS 3), but it quickly became unmanageable, and one error in that data starts causing very hard to diagnose crashes.
I'm sorry about the download situation, and the burden it puts on users with limited Internet capacity, but I also want to be up front about how we're dealing with it, so you can plan appropriately.
Bob, I have read and considered your comments on this point.
However, is it possible to please allow us to have two levels of downloads:
A) Core program, library files, important metadata and "Logos4 engine" stuff, and anything that directly depends on it.
Minor stuff or typo changes to a resource, that does NOT update the build model, file formats, or anything that exposes a crash.Then, any update gets tagged as an (A) download, or a (B) download.
So, we get no choice about (A) downloads. Its all or nothing ==> No crashes.
For (B), we could elect to delay them for a time and then run the index overnight at a time of our chosing.
(If a book gets a file-format update, or something crash-related, tag it (A) so no crashes.)At present, if there is an important program update of 30MB, and an unimportant typo fix to a resouce I dont care about today, its impossible for me to just take the fix I need today, and leave the book for the weekend.
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I would love to have a periodic DVD update, so I'm not forced to update from the 'web. Even though I have generally unlimited access right now, I would much prefer to have a late version available on a DVD. There are times when having such a version would be very very useful.
Then if we could just solve the "you can't back up your licenses," issue, I'd be a much happier camper.
Russ
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Bob Pritchett said:
I'm sorry, but we're not going to offer "choose your update portions." The best solution is to turn off automatic updates, and get them once in a while on DVD. (We'll be making new DVD's frequently.)
I have been keeping an eye on the DVD Media page and it is still at 4.0a. So is there any chance you could give an idea of how frequent new DVDs will be made? Also will these DVDs include only core Logos materials?
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Donovan R. Palmer said:Bob Pritchett said:
I'm sorry, but we're not going to offer "choose your update portions." The best solution is to turn off automatic updates, and get them once in a while on DVD. (We'll be making new DVD's frequently.)
I have been keeping an eye on the DVD Media page and it is still at 4.0a. So is there any chance you could give an idea of how frequent new DVDs will be made? Also will these DVDs include only core Logos materials?
I think you have your answer... It's been since April the last this thread was answered, and the DVDs still seem to be stuck at 4.0a.
Russ
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products/details/5579">
Latest
Version on disc: 4.0c/Mac 4.0 (Beta)Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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The latest is now 4.0d and Beta 2. What's the official policy for how often the discs will be updated? How many new sets can a user request per year, month, etc?
Russ
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Russ White said:
The latest is now 4.0d and Beta 2. What's the official policy for how often the discs will be updated? How many new sets can a user request per year, month, etc?
Russ
Its 4.1 beta 2 at the moment. I think I recall hearing that disc updates were ment to be around every 6 months or so. Perhaps a little longer.
Logos Platinum
Windows 7 - 64 Bit
Lenovo laptop E520 i7-2640M, 2.8GHz 8G Ram, 2G GraphicsAustralia
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Russ White said:
The latest is now 4.0d and Beta 2. What's the official policy for how often the discs will be updated? How many new sets can a user request per year, month, etc?
There is no official policy, partly because of the frequency of software and resource updates but after the "missing features" are incorporated major updates should be less frequent and discs could be issued with the release, much as happened with Libronix. I believe that increased shipping costs have affected the timing of media discs as well as the sale of product CD's eg. $5 + $20 shipping!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Russ White said:
The latest is now 4.0d and Beta 2. What's the official policy for how often the discs will be updated? How many new sets can a user request per year, month, etc?
Between the initial media disk which had 4.0 and the most recent update to the media disk which then contained 4.0c, it was about seven months. As fast as the programme is being developed and some HUGE resource updates, I would love to see this cycle down to every three months.
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Dave Hooton said:
There is no official policy, partly because of the frequency of software and resource updates but after the "missing features" are incorporated major updates should be less frequent and discs could be issued with the release, much as happened with Libronix. I believe that increased shipping costs have affected the timing of media discs as well as the sale of product CD's eg. $5 + $20 shipping!
For those who have internet access metered by the MB, there's a direct financial tradeoff between paying for shipping and paying for downloads. If you exposed this cost to your customers through a regular process, then you'd have the option of choosing when (how often) to update, based on the cost. Right now, the cost is hidden, which makes it hard for people to make the tradeoff. I would note that even for those of us in the US, where bandwidth is typically "free," there may come a point where it isn't any longer. I know a number of cable providers who are looking into charging for bandwidth in "blocks." Once you get over x amount of usage, it will cost $x per bandwidth after that. The point is this might become a problem for just about everyone in the future...
Another thing that might alleviate some pain in this space to to allow users to choose when to have updates run beyond manually turning the system on and off manually. Virtually every auto update on my system --I've checked MS, Adobe, Corel, HP, Trend, and a couple of others-- allow me to say, "tell me about updates, but let me decide when to install them." Or, in some cases, "update between x and y time once a week." Part of the issue here is that you must keep synch off completely, and then manually turn it on periodically, to get this effect in Logos. A process that's automated elsewhere, in other words, is manual in Logos. A bit of automation would be useful, I think.
Russ
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Russ White said:
For those who have internet access metered by the MB, there's a direct financial tradeoff between paying for shipping and paying for downloads. If you exposed this cost to your customers through a regular process, then you'd have the option of choosing when (how often) to update, based on the cost. Right now, the cost is hidden, which makes it hard for people to make the tradeoff.
Yes, users who would have to pay $300 for 2 GB (the recent big download) would be quite happy to pay $25 for a disc and are wondering when Logos will provide one for 4.0d.
Russ White said:Another thing that might alleviate some pain in this space to to allow users to choose when to have updates run beyond manually turning the system on and off manually. Virtually every auto update on my system --I've checked MS, Adobe, Corel, HP, Trend, and a couple of others-- allow me to say, "tell me about updates, but let me decide when to install them." Or, in some cases, "update between x and y time once a week." Part of the issue here is that you must keep synch off completely, and then manually turn it on periodically, to get this effect in Logos. A process that's automated elsewhere, in other words, is manual in Logos. A bit of automation would be useful, I think.
I keep Automatically Download Updates = NO as that tells me about the update and I decide when it will happen!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
I keep Automatically Download Updates = NO as that tells me about the update and I decide when it will happen!
I didn't even realize it would ask --I normally keep it turned off on my mac when I'm on the road, and on when I'm at home. On my PC, it just stays on all the time. It might be that that mac doesn't have this implemented yet (?), or that I've just never hit an update while I'm on the road. Right now I'm updating and shutting down the updates, because I'm about to fly, and hotels don't much like 650MB of updates on their service (in fact, most of the time, it just flat doesn't work).
Added --what would be really, really, nice would be for Logos to go beyond what other current software offers, and actually be able to download updates only when connected to specific networks, but not others. I could then set it up so it only downloaded updates when I'm connected to my home network, and not while I'm at work, or anyplace else, like sitting at a coffee shop, or something.
Russ
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